How Money Based Economies Subvert Self-Sufficiency (Part 1)

[chillspike]

Once upon a time in our collective human history, roughly 90% of it, we worked and lived for no one but ourselves. There were no job interviews to botch or feel anxious over, no employers needed to be obeyed or feared. No money ever exchanged hands and no one sold their time or labor for pieces of metal or paper. If a resource was needed, it was hunted, harvested, gathered, caught or dug up directly from the earth by the family or tribe member who would then share its bounty with the rest of the group. We know that resources were shared because we would not have remained a group species for very long if they weren't. We would have disbanded long ago and evolved into a solitary species more along the lines of bears and leopards. There was no money and nothing remotely resembling today's modern corporation or employers and...

The rest at: http://www.thedailysearch.com/2011/04/how-money-based-economies-subvert-self.html

[msongs]

1. the golden past where the biggest thugs in the tribe kept everyone in line lol nt

[izquierdista]

2. Wet behind the ears

The author of this screed can indeed opt out of the money economy and live a self-sufficient life. I can even think of two ways to do so: (1) get to the ripe old age of 45, and then no one will be asking you to exchange your time or labor for pieces of metal or paper; and (2) go to one of several destinations on the planet where the people still engage in subsistence agriculture and live in huts that they can build from local materials in a few hours time.

I would say the majority of people on the planet are effectively excluded from the money based economy.

[chillspike]

5. I thought so too

but kind of liked their description of work as a "dependence". Makes sense to me some how when I ask myself why I continue to go into work every day.

[BanzaiBonnie]

7. I quit a job once because

I felt I could no longer use up my life energy supporting that particular business. Within a few years, that business was gone.

[SharonAnn]

10. Me too. I said that thier "business model" felt "dead". Soon, it died.

I had already moved on by then.

[Grinchie]

30. Some of us can do this

But with our knowledge, we tend to make mansions that tend to make people drool, while at the same time avoiding Home Depot and Credit Card Contractors.

Please feel free to eschew our "Backward" way of life, but do so at your own ignorance, because that is exactly what it is. Perhaps you have never dealt with producing your own drinking water, electricity, or disposing your own waste after building your own shelter with nothing other than your own two hands and those darned "Native" materials, if you even have access to any..

Living simply is not so simple. Living independently, without the crutch of modern materials and centralized industry is a real challenge, but it is only a challenge because they Corporations have taken the tools needed to do so out of commerce. People living in an urban environment don't have a choice, unless they steal from their neighbors, which makes them nothing more than a thief.

As far as your dismissal of anyone over 45 as being able to produce anything, it is an insult and you are either trying to inflame that demographics, or trying to intimate that people over 45 are not desired in commerce.

You may be right -- just look at the median age of our government "leaders"..

[Duer 157099]

3. That was before every square inch of the planet and all it's resources

were owned by a very few wealthy people.

[Grinchie]

31. I guess I lucked out then..

Because I found a garden of eden because I took the time to look for it.

And it is in the US too. Unfortunately, all that may be for naught due to radioactive fallout.

[Boojatta]

4. "No money ever exchanged hands"

Money was introduced at different times in different places. Consider where the writers of the New Testament were when they were writing. The use of money was already well established. If you're talking about a time before the use of money, then you are in Adam and Eve territory: most of the writing is myth.

Of course, money is an invention and there have been communities that didn't use it, but people used money before the invention of written language.

Information about life in those communities is typically available only from anthropologists. So if you're going to say something about what things were like when and where "no money ever exchanged hands", then either we should see references to research done by anthropologists, or we should see some alternative explanation of how the information was obtained.

[zeemike]

6. And I totally agree with him.

And agree that the pursuit of money usually is a downward trend.
But the first reaction everyone has to that is....OMG you mean I have to go live in a cave?...and besides there were brutes back then with clubs that made life dangerous.
And so the thought never inters their minds that we now have the technology to transform the earth any way we want to....and that includes doing away with money and even labor.
But you have to think out of the box to do that....and we are much to safe in that box to even think about it.

[txlibdem]

8. We now have the technology. 100% agree.

I wrote an OP back in March that goes along the same lines. You might be interested:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=592229&mesg_id=592229

The comments to that article were very instructive about how locked in to the mindset of "job = self worth" that I was truly amazed at how empty those people's lives must be. And how conditioned they are to being nothing but a wage slave whose sole purpose for existence is to make some rich evil bastard even richer. Drones.

[zeemike]

11. Very interesting.

And I agree...that should be our goal....to put everyone out of work.
But my vision of what could be may be somewhat different in that I see it where robots are practically invisable....no tin cans walking around taking out the trash and sweeping the floor...., but a robotic system that includes transportation and manufacturing....in other words robots doing the big things.

[txlibdem]

12. Precisely

That is exactly what I envisioned as well. Robots planting, tending, taking care of and finally picking our food when it is ripe. Robots making everything we need to be made. Robots digging in the ground for whatever minerals we will still need to sustain a society. Robots building our houses, apartment buildings, and factories (those being for the exclusive use of other robots). Robots building robots and robots repairing robots.

And each robot is designed so that every decision, every action must first pass the Three Laws of Robotics to ensure that no harm come to a human either through a robots actions or through its failure to act.

We no longer need to work. The wealthy know this but they like the worker slaves to be right where they are: at the bottom.

[chillspike]

14. I couldn't agree more with this

If we can do this we would phase in a totally new socio-economic system and eliminate many of the conflicts of interests that plague us now. Someone needs to formalize an official blueprint for this transformation and push it on political and scientific round tables globally.

[zeemike]

17. Yep, what good is it to have a kingdom when you don't have surfs.

A totally automated system that provided for the necessities of life would free the surf from dependence on the King.
But the best thing about such a system is that there would be an explosion in things like art and music as leisure time for all would encourage it.
And it would be a great thing if people sought their 15 minuets of fame through art and music.

[chillspike]

18. That's exactly what thought too

It would free up more time for people to pursue the arts. You, me and
txlibdem should throw up a website with a bunch of OP eds and form a new movement. :D

[zeemike]

19. There is a movement already started like that.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/
They believe in a resource based economy that would do away with money.

[txlibdem]

23. Just skimmed the Venus Project site -- very interesting and a lot of good ideas

Like this:
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What else would a resource-based economy mean? Technology intelligently and efficiently applied, conserves energy, reduces waste, and provides more leisure time. With automated inventory on a global scale, we can maintain a balance between production and distribution. Only nutritious and healthy food would be available and planned obsolescence would be unnecessary and non-existent in a resource-based economy.

As we outgrow the need for professions based on the monetary system, for instance lawyers, bankers, insurance agents, marketing and advertising personnel, salespersons, and stockbrokers, a considerable amount of waste will be eliminated. Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems. The most valuable, untapped resource today is human ingenuity.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/a-new-social-design/resource-based-economy
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That fits right along with what I've been thinking for years as well. For instance, how many cell phone companies are there in your area? Here in Dallas there are 5 different cell carriers: that means 5 sets of management, 5 completely separate networks, duplicate administrative staff, technicians, customer service, and sales locations and sales staff. And are any one of them better? No, quite the contrary. One carrier may be better in one area but the worst in another. While the worst carrier at your work could be the best carrier at your home. It's like they planned it all out on a map. I have never found a carrier that has the best signal in all places where I go. What if there were one cell phone provider, owned by the government and beholden to the electorate to make sure that the network was reliable and ultra fast --everywhere.

I also like the 2nd paragraph I quoted above: those are the people that have ruined millions of lives in just the last decade. Their reign deserves to come to an end.

And the duplication of effort in each and everything we make is far too wasteful. But something has to drive innovation so why not have a version of the "X-Prize" for each item, the winner gets to build and distribute their new product plus anything they've designed in the past and the losers only get to build their old stuff or the winner's design. Also the winner gets to stay in one of the confiscated McMansions for the entire next year. That will be incentive enough, but the fame that goes along with winning will be a motivator as well.

[zeemike]

27. On the part about motivation I thing it would solve itself.

As we become a more enlightened society....remembering that with lots of free time it allows for lots of teaching and learning as well as recreation.
I wold thing such a society would be heavy on artistic expression, but also science and invention.
And think of this....lets say you did not like the silverware that was being produced so you designed something new....sent it off the the robot factory and the robot makes it and sends it back to you....not a big deal for a robot factory really.
But I would think that the Mc Mansions would be used more as punishment than reward as new structures that had more comfort and livability came into use....besides those cheap and fragile structures will not be around for 30 years...most now are torn down about 20 years old.
I foresee homes that will see generations of people live in them and in comfort.

[txlibdem]

29. I should have said "Mansions" and not McMansions thanks for pointing that out

You are absolutely right that McMansions will be falling apart after 30 years, along with the tract homes that these "throw-em-up-and-run" construction companies churn out. The truly rich build their mansions to last 100 years or more.

I just meant that something is needed to ensure continued progress in the sciences and in technology and an X-Prize type competition seems like a good way to do that. Our heroes should be the people who better our world, instead of those who destroy it.

[Grinchie]

32. They never account for the Pyschopaths.

Why is it that these utopian ideals never take on the difficult challenge for toxic pyscopathic behavior in their midst.

It's happening right now in our own Government, and it's being accepted by the masses -- albeit grudgingly.

Personally, I'm happy building my own heaven on earth, and enjoying it for myself for as long as I can.

Sure we can accomplish amazing things working together, but we can also do it all by oursleves as well. It just takes longer, take more skill, and takes more stamina.

[txlibdem]

33. It gets frustrating to watch the goings on in politics -- sociopathic magnet that it is

I agree it's a problem that will have to be tackled before we can truly have peace in the world or a fair system of government and economics.

Any suggestions?

[chillspike]

13. We'll have to have robots that walk around

if we want to put everyone out of work. Robots will have to mine, fish, farm, mow lawns, everything that humans do outdoors to collect resources we will have to have robots to do them.

[zeemike]

15. Well a robot miner is valuable

But to use one to mow the grass is a waste in my opnion...and there are things we can do for ourselves and actually need to do to keep us from wasting away....like mowing the grass and cleaning our own house.
But a robot farmer is perfict....it could work 24/7 and revolutionize farming....makig diversified farming practical.

[chillspike]

16. One thing about your OP

It's great to see other liberals tinkering with this idea and not being afraid to use and look to technology to bolster our arguments against the old, worn out Republican world view where everybody remains unhappy slaves.

A follow up to one point you made in your OP about prices in New York I would like to share is that, I don't think that many people realize that prices and the cost of living would go down and maybe even disappear to the degree that robots are able to provide our necessities for us. Think about it. If what we are working for now is to obtain money in order to get food, shelter, etc why would we need money if robots were providing us free resources? No one would really need money to survive so why charge anyone rent in New York? Crime would go down because fighting over resources would stop if everyones basic needs were being met. We would stop building these unattainable luxury apartments and mansions that divide people into classes and just build to live, not live to build. Everyone would get their free pod to live in (prime real estate would be off limits to private building like beaches in costa rica are which would discourage competition over home sites) and that would be it.

[txlibdem]

20. The cost of living

Think about those words. That phrase tells us everything we need to know about what is wrong with our society and Capitalism in general. It says that from the moment you are born you owe someone else money. How did we get to that point? What series of devious Machiavellian plots were hatched and succeeded in order for us to take as fact the idea that the sole purpose of our lives is to pay money to the wealthy and the unscrupulous.

[chillspike]

21. Exactly

I think it probably stated way back in our pre-history as a territorial advantage employed by Alpha males. They would control the best hunting spots and figured out, rather than defend their territory in head to head battle, they could "lease" out plots in exchange for tribute. So there is good 'ol selfish thuggery at its core all the way up to us today.

Good point about the "cost of living" phrase. It is so ingrained in us, as much as I feel I am on to the scam, I didn't even notice that it was even within the words I was using.

[txlibdem]

22. I find myself using those phrases that have been pounded down upon us for so long

It's hard not to use them, they're so pervasive. But in a non-monetary society the accumulation of possessions, the collection of other people's money would be meaningless. We would then only need to weed out the sociopaths who crave power over others. The best way I can think to accomplish that is to take the richest 5% from each nation and remove them from society, allow them only the job of sweeping the streets and picking up trash with their hands, orange jumpsuits and radio ankle bracelets included but none of those pointy sticks (allowing a sociopath to have a weapon is far too dangerous). Their spouses and their children for 7 generations should be similarly limited in their career choices.

That should be enough time for us to perfect the ability to weed out sociopathic behavior from our species. The psychopaths who are now the wealthy and powerful in our societies have spread misery and death for 10,000 generations so a penance of 7 generations is a fair minimum punishment. Just as the former Soviet Union has opened up the palaces of the Nomenklatura and made them into public spaces, so too will we turn the mansions of the rich into parks and resort hotels for the poor and middle class.

[chillspike]

24. I think we should look to cultures

where the human ego is relatively kept in check and being humble is considered a virtue. Japan is one example. There's the Buddhist tradition, of course. Native Americans had a custom called Potlatch. You may have heard of it, I'm sure, as DU is a well read group. During Potlatch, the wealthiest of the tribe would try to outdo each other in giving away their possessions to the poorer members of the tribe. Perhaps as a demonstration of how little material wealth mattered as well as to maintain social harmony among the tribe. The U.S government banned the practice.

[txlibdem]

26. Funny how we need to go back to "primitive" cultures to find the path to human survival

[Demeter]

9. And 3/4 of the World Were Slaves Up Through the 1850's

It's a nice fairy tale, but it ain't necessarily so.

[Amonester]

25. Are you saying 3/4 of the world are not slaves today?

If so, how are they supposed to live a decent life with their $1.00 (or less) a day?

[Demeter]

28. Poverty and Slavery Are Not Necessarily the Same, Either

An owner would have a vested interest in seeing that his property was fed and healthy and stayed alive.