Friedman: The Earth Is Full

[athena]

I don't usually agree with Friedman, but this is worth reading.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/08/opinion/08friedman.html?hp

You really do have to wonder whether a few years from now we’ll look back at the first decade of the 21st century — when food prices spiked, energy prices soared, world population surged, tornados plowed through cities, floods and droughts set records, populations were displaced and governments were threatened by the confluence of it all — and ask ourselves: What were we thinking? How did we not panic when the evidence was so obvious that we’d crossed some growth/climate/natural resource/population redlines all at once?

“The only answer can be denial,” argues Paul Gilding, the veteran Australian environmentalist-entrepreneur, who described this moment in a new book called “The Great Disruption: Why the Climate Crisis Will Bring On the End of Shopping and the Birth of a New World.” “When you are surrounded by something so big that requires you to change everything about the way you think and see the world, then denial is the natural response. But the longer we wait, the bigger the response required.”

[dkf]

1. K&R

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. The big question:

“We are heading for a crisis-driven choice,” he says. “We either allow collapse to overtake us or develop a new sustainable economic model. We will choose the latter. We may be slow, but we’re not stupid.”

Is it true that we are slow but not stupid? I'm not quite so optimistic, with the way the recent climate conferences have gone.

[athena]

4. I am not very optimistic, either.

The column starts out strong, but ends with an optimism that almost implies that the problem is not so serious.

In dealing with this problem, slowness may be just as bad as stupidity. By the time we decide to change our ways, it may be too late.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. I'm voting "stupid"

I see no evidence to dissuade me of that opinion.

[Zoeisright]

12. I think we're slow AND stupid.

This country, especially, is REactive, not PROactive. We don't do anything about problems until they become overwhelming.

[bemildred]

13. We are slow and stupid.

A lot of that has to do with the fact that leaders serve themselves instead of actually leading somewhere, but the result is still slow and stupid.

I have been confounded for years watching the US government eviscerate the sources of its own power as a cheap favor for the rich and "special interests".

[Enthusiast]

17. I'm with you.

The entire media and government pretend that this reality isn't upon us. We could adapt to these threats but not under the massive drag of the greedy pulling us down.

[rpannier]

24. I'm going with stupid

[Serve The Servants]

3. K&R

Overpopulation is the root cause of so many of the world's problems and it isn't discussed enough. Eventually, we are going to have a "coming to Jesus" moment and a solution will be required whether we like it or not.

We can begin to fix the issue now voluntarily, or we can wait for the super virus to do it for us.

[cutlassmama]

5. no doubt a super virus will be unleashed to tame the overpopulation.

It is coming soon.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. nah.

We will no doubt have some nasty pandemics, but they will be mere blips on our way to 9+ billion high-energy diet humans on the planet.

[Enthusiast]

18. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Especially if the Republicans regain full control of the nation.

[athena]

8. We need to stop population growth *and* lower our consumption levels.

Even if we achieved zero or negative population growth, the Earth would not be able to sustain our wasteful and destructive ways.

As http://e360.yale.edu/feature/consumption_dwarfs_population_as_main_environmental_threat/2140/">this article states, "an extra child in the United States today will, down the generations, produce an eventual carbon footprint seven times that of an extra Chinese child, 46 times that of a Pakistan child, 55 times that of an Indian child, and 86 times that of a Nigerian child." It is therefore especially important for people in developed countries to have fewer children.

In any case, I don't think that it is possible to reverse the damage to the environment through population control alone. In other words, lowering the population is "necessary but insufficient."

[The2ndWheel]

11. Overpopulation is a symptom

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bemildred]

10. It was better when Friedman was hiding in the closet.

I suppose you can argue that if the dumb guy gets it about ecology and climate change, then it must be really, really obvious.

But more likely, this just indicates that ecological issues are seen as the next big economic "thing". Consider the term: "veteran Australian environmentalist-entrepreneur".

[bemildred]

14. Friedman: "My pants are full." nt

[hatrack]

19. +1,000,000,000

:rofl:

[bemildred]

21. Awwwww.

;-)

[BREMPRO]

15. excellent summary of a closed system failure..and an optimistic solution..must read!

for all the friedman haters, this is not about him.. it's about US...

[Uncle Joe]

16. I believe Gilding sums it up nicely in this paragraph.

“If you cut down more trees than you grow, you run out of trees,” writes Gilding. “If you put additional nitrogen into a water system, you change the type and quantity of life that water can support. If you thicken the Earth’s CO2 blanket, the Earth gets warmer. If you do all these and many more things at once, you change the way the whole system of planet Earth behaves, with social, economic, and life support impacts. This is not speculation; this is high school science.”

Thanks for the thread, athena.

[GeorgeGist]

20. Part of what went wrong ...

is that too many people took Friedman seriously.

[bhikkhu]

22. ...and end the clamor for economic growth

there is the possibility that we can't get there anyway because of limits on energy supply, and that the levels of production we have now are basically as high as it gets.

So enjoy the present - these are the good times, as good as it gets!

[hadrons]

23. Paul Gilding's quote on denial s great ....

“The only answer can be denial,” argues Paul Gilding, the veteran Australian environmentalist-entrepreneur, who described this moment in a new book called “The Great Disruption: Why the Climate Crisis Will Bring On the End of Shopping and the Birth of a New World.” “When you are surrounded by something so big that requires you to change everything about the way you think and see the world, then denial is the natural response. But the longer we wait, the bigger the response required.”