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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:43 AM
Original message
Bush Anything But Moronic, According to Author
(thanks to xocolatl for the link. interesting article - from 2002 - but worth a re read...)

Bush Anything But Moronic, According to Author
Dark Overtones in His Malapropisms

by Murray Whyte

When Mark Crispin Miller first set out to write Dyslexicon: Observations on a National Disorder, about the ever-growing catalogue of President George W. Bush's verbal gaffes, he meant it for a laugh. But what he came to realize wasn't entirely amusing.

<snip>

"I did initially intend it to be a funny book. But that was before I had a chance to read through all the transcripts," Miller, an American author and a professor of culture and communication at New York University, said recently in Toronto.

"Bush is not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has an inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this is what a lot of people miss."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1128-02.htm

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CompassionateLiberal Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jr. is either Evil or Stupid -- your choice
But those are the only two options I'm offering.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not both? n/t
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CompassionateLiberal Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Good point.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Bush is both evil and stupid
that's what makes him so dangerous
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is an important article. It absolutely nails Bush.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. This makes sense
...and causes me to reconsider my dismissal of that article.

snip

This, then, is why he's so closely watched by his handlers, Miller says — not because he'll say something stupid, but because he'll overindulge in the language of violence and punishment at which he excels.

"He's a very angry guy, a hostile guy. He's much like Nixon. So they're very, very careful to choreograph every move he makes. They don't want him anywhere near protestors, because he would lose his temper."
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. his snippiness when confronted with questions is revealing ...
By now he's learned to "make nice" when it's essential for him to do so (e.g. the gubernatorial debate with Ann Richards) -- but if he feels cocky or views the other person as unimportant, he can get quite abusive. Witness the incident with Al Hunt and Judy Woodruff -- and this situation when he almost went for someone who was taunting him, during his first campaign.


""It had snowed in Lubbock quite a bit, and I was sitting out in front of the Beta House on Broadway Street with a couple of Betas. And George came down the street," with a couple of his campaign workers.

"I started to heckle him, and laugh, and I called him an idiot. He said something back that I didn't understand, and then I decided to throw a snowball at him. I threw two or three, and one hit him in the chest.

"Then he started across the street to come whup my butt. He didn't back down," the lawyer says. "But then his handlers held him back.""


http://www.dubyaspeak.com/incidents.shtml


Contrast this with the way someone like Bill Clinton would have tried to win over his opponent.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Ummm,

I hate to defend Dubaya, but throwing snowballs is a physical assault. Dubaya would have been justified to defend himself in such an incident.

However, somehow I think Bush has never had a physical fight with anyone but Neil and Jeb.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. Bush couldn't lick Nixon's shoes ....


For all of Nixon's paranoia and undending obsession at winning, he DID care about things. He cared about the environment. He was a traditional conservative. While we disagree with them, paleo-conservatives still hold shreds of decency.

Bill Clinton told Randi Rhodes that without Watergate, he would have been remembered as a GREAT president. He said that there was no need to engage in such activities, without them, he would have won in a landslide.

Bush has ZERO redeeming features. He will be remembered as the WORST president in American history. His perceived strengths will be chalked up to nothing more than image making.

I dare say that the DSM will have to be revised. Instead of narcissism, the condition will henceforth be known as BUSHISM.

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jdsmith Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Is Common Dreams just now publishing a 1-1/2 year old article?
Not that Miller's dead-on thesis is any less worthwhile. Let's make something of it this time.
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BearFlagDemocrat Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Watch "Journeys With George"
My girlfriend watched that as well as read "Fortunate Son", and she came away with the complete belief that Bush isn't stupid, he's cruel and mean. Al Franken mentions this too in his book "Lying Liars" when he describes his experiences with Barbara Bush, and how George is "her son."
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. Barbara Bush is the reincarnation of ...
... Marie Antoinette. She has little or no concern for anyone not of her rank or station. I dare say that Leona Helmsley was only repeating something she heard Barbara Bush say in private.

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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
8.  "incapable of empathy."..this is so true
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monchie Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. The empathy gene...
...was long ago bred out of the Bush family.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
10. He's not mentally retarded.
He is quite manipulative. However, that doesn't mean that he's capable of accumulating the knowledge necessary to become a wise leader. He manipulates in order to hide this reality. All folks who can't quite keep up with their neighbors work to this end, and, because they spend so much time doing it, they become quite good at it. This is the reality of Bush. This is the reality that those who say he's smart don't understand.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Bush would be NOTHING without his well paid circle ...

Bush has accomplished NOTHING on his own during his lifetime. Without his connections, Bush would be nothing more than a petty scam artist. I could easily see him as the character in "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" or "Matchstick Men".

I see him on a phone scamming senior citizens with phony insurance policies one by one. With his contacts though, he's been able to scam the ENTIRETY of the Senior community.

Bush is a criminal. No one should confuse greatness with magnitude.



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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. Is it a choice?
A "good" shrink ( there are few) once told me that truly intelligent people are also the people who are the most compassionate and most concerned with justice and mercy. Those lower on the intelligence scale have the "if i can get away with it, i will" mentality, without regard to the long-term consequences of their actions. To these lower types, it seems intelligent to screw other people over to get what you want.

Examples:

DUMBASS: "Hey. That kid just left his CD player on the table while he goes to the restroom. What an idiot. I'd be a fool not to take it. Something for nothing and all that. Besides, he deserves to lose it if he can't keep track of his stuff. He's just white trash anyway. "

SMART PERSON: "Hey. That kid just left his CD player on the table while he goes to the restroom. That would suck if someone stole it. He's a nice kid. Comes from a poor family. He'd have a tough time trying to replace it. I think I'll hang onto it and give it to him when he comes back to the table. Dumbass over there is eyeing it like he's gonna grab it for himself...."

So is Bush a deceitful dumbass by choice, or is it mental illness that colors all of his detrimental decisions?
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CompassionateLiberal Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. 50% Blue Meme, 25% Red, 20% Orange
Using Spiral Dynamics to evaluate Jr., I would estimate that he spends the majority of his time operating in the Blue Meme, and the remainder split between the Red and Orange memes. With maybe 5% of the time pretending to be Green.

http://www.theatmanproject.com/tap_spiral_dynamics/tap_spiral_dynamics.html
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cornfedyank Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. damn right it's by choice -- assholes choose to be assholes
shrub is the kind of guy that wants to eat your half of the candy bar first. frank burn's greedy

at the news conference in Istanbul shrub said to a reporter, bill, you got a question? (inaudible reply) shrub smirked " then why don't you ask it?"

the most telling for me, other than the "please give me 30 sec to think", was when he said to tim russert "Ya, I put in my time. proudly so" put in his time -- ha

America deserves better.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. If the smart person in your example were truly smart
the kid's background wouldn't have mattered.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. It was merely an illustration
not intended to right all the wrongs of the world
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Just pointing out that the qualifier was unnecessary
and a little disturbing.

Your overall point was right on.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Why did it disturb you?
My intention was to show a person who thinks on a deeper level. We have a President who never considers the effects of his actions on the poor. Does it disturb you because the kid was poor? Or because that even came into play at all?
Of course it shouldn't matter if the kid had the Kerry's for parents and the CD player could be replaced easily. The consequences might be more dire in my chosen illustration. And sometimes that just is the way it is.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Because his being poor and that whole spiel was beside the ethical
point and that it was deemed necessary to make an ethical point was telling, and slightly disturbing.

The added spin was a bit creepy.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Added spin was creepy?
Stop talking newspeak. There are poor people. Having made $4000 last year I might know a bit about it. Whatever is disturbing you sounds more like a personal issue. Sorry....
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Not at all. It implied that otherwise it would've been ok.
Nothing personal except your reaction.

To view ethics in that kind of qualified light IS creepy.
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antigone382 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oh my God
This is another one of those trivial little episodes of "let's pick apart a post." buddyhollysghost wasn't saying that it's not as bad to steal from poor people as it is to steal from rich people. It was just an illustration. Describing it as "disturbing" and "creepy" is patronizing, divisive, and ABSOLUTELY personal. To be honest, I'm a little ashamed at myself for responding to such frivolous nit-picking, but I couldn't let this one go.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You just don't get it.
It would be as wrong regardless of who it was. Adding the qualifier is totally beside the ethical point. An important point in ethical debate, whether you realize it or not.

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antigone382 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:55 PM
Original message
Stealing is wrong, regardless of the socioeconomic status of the victim
I get it, and I have training and experience in debate techniques.

But mentioning that the kid was poor wasn't really meant as a qualifier. It was a demonstration of the train of thought of the "intelligent person" in the given situation, a window into his internal dialogue. As an amateur playwright I can respect what buddyhollysghost was doing as a writer, providing context which gives the reader/audience member/whatever, a sense of who the character is, and makes the situation more real. I would postulate that the example was written not so much in a debate format as in a short-story format.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. you are a moron
go debate yourself
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antigone382 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Stealing is wrong, regardless of the socioeconomic status of the victim
I get it, and I have training and experience in debate techniques.

But mentioning that the kid was poor wasn't really meant as a qualifier. It was a demonstration of the train of thought of the "intelligent person" in the given situation, a window into his internal dialogue. As an amateur playwright I can respect what buddyhollysghost was doing as a writer, providing context which gives the reader/audience member/whatever, a sense of who the character is, and makes the situation more real. I would postulate that the example was written not so much in a debate format as in a short-story format.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. Bush is the most cruel bastard ever to be governor of Texas !!!!

He is the ONLY one never to grant clemency to a condemned prisoner. In fact, he openly mocked them. Mercy and consideration are below George W Bush.

Isn't it amazing that even the "hang em high" governors of the past could grant mercy. But in this modern era, Bush can't kill em fast enough.

BTW, It's very telling the Dubaya didn't take one of his few responsibilities as governor of Texas seriously.

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moosedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. What do you think?
Could he have been really smart if he wasn't bluffing his way to please his parents? Maybe if he could have just been an average person, and not pressured to be a brain, he would have been more intelligent. The rest of that article, in my opinion, is so accurate to my way of thinking about this poor soul. .........Mrs. Moose
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. mean-spirited competition in that family ...
I've read various accounts of how Bush's parents pitted the kids against each other in "friendly" competitions that were anything but. Even horseshoe games during family vacations were subject to keeping score, and unpleasant teasing throughout. The parents used a kind of negative encouragement -- they expected the children, especially the boys, to live up to their dad's accomplishments, but said cutting things about them even if they did well! Under that kind of pressure, no wonder George W. decided that he would just stop trying, and "opt out" of the game.

If he'd had the courage to break away from the family early on, he might have become a much nicer person. But perhaps concerns about pleasing his father, and being cut out of the legacy, kept him in that mindset. I know that Bush is often portrayed as "his own man" and a rebel, but he's not.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. A sense of entitlement, developed over many years, of
having problems "fixed" by your Dad. Sadly, he has learned nothing from his past....he just assumed someone else would always "fix" any problems in his administration. Trouble is, there are too many problems and they are exposed to the light of public knowledge.

Funny how Al Gore's invention of the Internet has affected the fixers' ability to keep King George clothed. They never saw it coming.....
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moosedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I agree with you...
It is through struggle and hard knocks that we mature and grow wise. No parent wants to knowingly hurt a child, but when you fix everything and put them on a pedestal, you are hurting them, bit time. He is beyond help now. He is mean spirited and will never be wise . That is how I see it.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. The flaws of old aristocracy
Edited on Thu Jul-08-04 10:38 PM by PATRICK
They could be trivial, bored, buffoonish, even stylishly good-humored, but underneath that mask the manipulation of power was exercised with a ruthless cunning that knew no limits, no proportion, no taint of compassion.

Too many Bush generations where the unthwarted rise, the working alliances and endlessly repeated winning strategies have created this seemingly bored, inattentive prince who nonetheless knows very well where the knives are and the dark places where they can used with impunity against rivals who "misunderestimate" their decadent foe..

Yet arrogance and evil breeds the ultimate moronic behavior, the last circle of Dante's Inferno of frozen idiots chewing on each other is useless struggle.

In that sense they are all useless mortals devoid of reason and immortal morons.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Good point...well made
"Yet arrogance and evil breeds the ultimate moronic behavior, the last circle of Dante's Inferno of frozen idiots chewing on each other is useless struggle."

I keep reading this part...over and over.
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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
20. Old aristocracy
is usually a failure due to inbreeding. If GW ain't a poster boy for non-branching bloodline caused birth defects I don't know who is!:)

Gyre
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sociopathic idiocy...the pathology fairly resonates
The following snippets are chillingly telling.

snip

Miller's judgment, that the president might suffer from a bona fide personality disorder, almost makes one long for the less menacing notion currently making the rounds: that the White House's current occupant is, in fact, simply an idiot.

If only. Miller's rendering of the president is bleaker than that. In studying Bush's various adventures in oration, he started to see a pattern emerging.

"He has no trouble speaking off the cuff when he's speaking punitively, when he's talking about violence, when he's talking about revenge.

"When he struts and thumps his chest, his syntax and grammar are fine," Miller said.

"It's only when he leaps into the wild blue yonder of compassion, or idealism, or altruism, that he makes these hilarious mistakes."

snip

This, then, is why he's so closely watched by his handlers, Miller says — not because he'll say something stupid, but because he'll overindulge in the language of violence and punishment at which he excels.

"He's a very angry guy, a hostile guy. He's much like Nixon. So they're very, very careful to choreograph every move he makes. They don't want him anywhere near protestors, because he would lose his temper."

Miller, without question, is a man with a mission — and laughter isn't it.

"I call him the feel bad president, because he's all about punishment and death," he said. "It would be a grave mistake to just play him for laughs."
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Not stupid ... But not BRILLIANT either ...

I think the man has a pretty limited skillset. Basically he's a confidence man. The most successfull in history.

He has the amiable charm of any good con artists. He is affable and wins trust easily. He is personable and disarming. At the same time, he hates those he charms. His sole reason for charm is to get something, it could be votes, it could be money.

Bush is a CRIMINAL !!!! Pure and simple. He isn't a smart man, but he knows what money is, and he knows how to get it.

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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
41. Idiot, or liar?

Idiot or Liar? Either Way, Bush Is Unfit for Office


John V. Whitbeck • Special to Arab News —

<<snip>>
On July 25, President George W. Bush made a truly staggering statement to the press after a meeting with UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan: “The fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in. And therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region.”

This statement is worth reading carefully. The president of the United States has stated, in a public forum, that he invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein would not allow weapons inspectors back into his country.

<<snip>>
When a single individual combines ignorance, immorality, dry-drunk syndrome, a publicly proclaimed commitment to perpetual military domination of the entire world by his country, a publicly expressed belief that God personally instructs him to make war on specific countries and a wildly irrational born-again brand of Christianity that views the Battle of Armageddon and the consequent end of life on earth as desirable developments and, at the same time, has command authority over an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction more than sufficient to achieve the end of life on earth, it is difficult to argue that this individual is not the most dangerous person who has ever lived.

Read more:
http://www.arabnews.com/services/print/print.asp?artid=30536&d=19&m=8&y=2003&hl=Idiot%20or%20Liar?%20Either%20Way,%20Bush%20Is%20Unfit%20for%20Office
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Bozvotros Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. Shot his brothers in the back with a BB gun
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