Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge

[hughee99]

I think it's unfortunate the way that this will get spun, but it's even more unfortunate that it happened at all. The repukes will use a story like this to bring up some of the protests of Vietnam, and use it to try to say that the "I support the troops, but not the war" people are liars. I doubt they will be all that effective but it will deflect media attention from the real issues.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/181422_robert09.html

[Longhorn]

1. Be sure to read the entire article.

There are some agendas going on here -- it's not as blatantly rude as the headline implies.

[hughee99]

3. Clearly that's the case

But will that get reported as this story hits larger media outlets? You don't have to do a lot of work to figure out what FAUX is going to do with this, which parts will be reported, and which won't. If they make a big issue out of it, the other outlets will definately pick this up as well, and who knows what they'll do with it.

[Longhorn]

12. I'm sure you're right about that! n/t

[DeaconBlues]

2. Self-fulfilling prophecy?

The guy writes a letter back home while he is in Iraq stating, "A good portion of us are actually scared that when we come home, for those of us who make it back, that there will be protesters waiting for us and that is scary." Then when he gets home, and no protesters meet him, he becomes the protester. He goes to a nonpartisan event, a Fourth of July parade, in a liberal area sporting a sign that says he supports Bush. What did he expect to happen?

Sometimes it takes a little effort for people to get what they secretly want.

[Shakespeare]

6. This story just has "bullshit" written all over it. n/t

[lanparty]

47. Agreed ...

Most soldiers don't write letters like that. I would bet some money that this story is COMPLETE fiction worthy of the New York Times.

[hughee99]

10. Hold on...

What did he expect to happen? He probably expected to hear some boos, and if that's all it was then that's fine. "Babykiller" though? I get pretty upset when Kerry supporters (or any supporter of a peaceful cause) gets this kind of treatment. Boos and cheers are fine, but a personal attack like this seem to me to be way out of line. Also, it makes it look a little hypocrital as well. I know that this is a specific instance, but in this case some of the same people who support the troops by wanting to bring them home are calling them babykillers when they get back.

[Bridget Burke]

11. Find another source to back up this story.

It reeks.

[DeaconBlues]

14. And what was he and his conservative friends doing to provoke such a

reaction (if that reaction actually occurred)? We aren't told that. I doubt this guy and his buddies were the pictures of innocence.

[Dhalgren]

16. A lot of babies have been killed over there.

Somebody killed them. If he thinks he's a hero for killing people for Caligula Bush, then coming home and bragging about it, he is deluded.

[bleedingedge]

22. Where did he brag about it?

In wearing his uniform and stating his political opinion? That's not bragging, that's the right of a veteran and an American citizen.

What would we say if an anti-abortion protestor called any of us (assuming pretty much everybody here is pro-choice) a "baby killer". We'd have a Goddamned mass apoplexy. But it's OK for our side to do it to some poor fucking kid who's been mislead and doesn't realize it?

I'm as liberal as just about anybody, but this is fucking wrong, no matter how you want to spin it. And notice how quickly some people are to dismiss it because it doesn't fit our worldview of who we are, just like many Cons/Reps. dismiss anything that doesn't fit their world view.

Everybody on this board will do well to realize that "asshole" is an affliction that crosses party lines.

Flame away.

[Saintgermane]

45. Actually,

as a serving member of the armed forces, he is forbiden by the UNiform COde of Military Justice from simultaneously wearing a uniform and taking a political position.

He could have marched in the parade, in uniform, provided he did not advocate any particular political viewpoint or cadidate.

Alternatively, he could have expressed his political views openly, in civilian clothing.

That being said, ad homenien attacks on a wounded soldier are beyond the pale.

[atreides1]

19. I Can't Help But Think That He and His Mother Planned This.

Without more of a background, we don't know whether he did or didn't kill babies. So before someone starts accusing vets of these kinds of thing they better make sure that it's true.

No one should be painted with that broad of a brush, as this soldier was, but by carrying that sign he made himself a target in what was supposed to be a non-partisan celebration of our country's independence.

If he wants to support Bush that's his right, and I will defend his rights, though I don't agree with his views.

I'm a combat veteran against Bush, but Independence Day belongs to all Americans, this kid and his group were, in my opinion possibly trying the old Asscrack mantra about who is more patriotic, and he got slammed for it.

As a soldier he should accept it, because it's his duty to protect the rights of those people who booed him and called him names. If he cannot do his duty, then he needs to take off the uniform and find something else to do.

As a former soldier I feel that the current generation of troops, have no idea what that oath they took means. To most of them it's just as bunch of words that they have to say to enlist. I'm willing to bet most never realize that they have sworn to defend the US Constitution, and that their allegiance is to that most sacred document not to the President. The next time anyone here gets a chance ask a young soldier what they think the oath they took means.

Hell ask the next person in uniform you see, ask a recruiter, find out if they know or even realize that they have sworn alligiance to the Constitution, I'll bet very few will know what you're talking about.

You see I took that oath 4 times, and I always remembered that my allegiance and true faith was to the US Constitution, to defend it from all enemies both foreign and domestic, my loyalty was to my country not my government.

[hughee99]

23. According to the article

There were signs for Kerry too, and if you're going to allow signs for him, then you have to allow * signs as well. I don't see anything in here about not doing his duty. He was complaining about some of the names that he was called, and frankly, I think he has some right to be pissed about it, whether it was a freeper or not that called him the names. I don't really see where his oath to the constitution comes into play here, though. As to what he said to provoke it, the article doesn't say, and I haven't been able to find any other sources so I'm not going to assume anything. If he said "I killed babies in Iraq and I support *", then I guess his treatement was justified, but I have a feeling that wasn't what he said.

[jicasteve]

41. What are all these Vietnam veterans all fired up about?

I do not get what these Vietnam vets are all upset about.  Go
read the document of record
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony  
for yourself of the Kerry - O’Neal debate.  It is very obvious
that Kerry was fighting on behalf of the troops and just
wanted to expedite the end of the war.  I think these Vietnam
guys are just upset because the US citizens didn't have any
parades to honor them.  I suppose the GI's over in the middle
east will be upset when they come back to a disapproving US as
well.

[Joanne98]

13. This really smells

How do we know the "protesters" who called him a "baby killer" weren't from a website called freeperville. Sounds staged and exactly like something they'd do. I e-mailed him. I don't believe it and don't appeciate it at all.

[hughee99]

20. They could be freepers...

I don't know. This is certainly something that they can spin to their advantage. There are also some overzealous Kerry suppporters who could have done this as well. I don't necessarily think that just because it makes us look bad, it must be a freeper plot, though. I've been looking for other sources, but haven't found anything else yet. I don't really believe it, but I don't discount it either.

[Ruby Romaine]

4. He was carrying a Bush sign , what do you expect?

He supports the man who is responsible for the world being in a terrible state.
What an idiot!

[bleedingedge]

24. Um, let's see, I expect people to respect his..

right to free speech. And I expect that if they want to pipe up about their opposition to that view, they'll have something more constructive to add than "Baby Killer" and "Booooo".

Who the fuck were they yelling that for? Do they think they changed his mind? Anybody else's? Or were they just trying to look good among the crowd of like-thinkers?

And if they were so Goddamned commited to the cause, why weren't they a part of the Kerry group that was in the parade?

Courge isn't saying what you think, it's explaining why you've come to that conclusion. Anybody who would rather proselytize than debate is a detriment to the cause for which s/he preaches.

[lanparty]

48. Boooing Bush is fine ...

But shouting "baby killer" is not.

I don't think that liberals shouted "baby killer" at this guy. That's because LIBERALS don't do that kind of thing.

Lets not forget that the people who were shouting "baby killer" at vets during the Vietnam era are now Republicans. Those folks were the "joiners". They went along because thats where the party is.

[Alpharetta]

5. I hope this gets lots of publicity

about how his "veterans for Bush" sign elicited such a strong response

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. He just had a scratch in the leg

Typical. The GOP blasts war veterans like Kerry, diminishing what he did for them, and one nutjob decides to walk into a hornet's nest of people vehemently opposed to war, carrying signs designed to inflame, and complains when he's not treated like Jesus Christ.

Sorry, life doesn't work that way.

Choose Kerry Lose Bush - FUCK BUSH - Drop Bush Not Bombs!
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[hughee99]

15. I'm sorry but...

I don't consider "Veterans for Bush" inflamatory, just idiotic, and I don't think he was expecting the Jesus treatment. Had he gotten only boo's, then he would have gotten what he deserved for carrying the sign. Maybe its just the word "babykiller" that bothers me.

[Joanne98]

8. I e-mailed him

And asked him if he was related to Jason Blair. :)

Let him have it with both barrels. We don't need this shit.

[Jade Fox]

38. whoa there, Jamieson is a good guy. HE wouldn't make this up, but you

might try asking him for more details about this incident.

[Bridget Burke]

9. What other sources did the columnist have?

The soldier who was expecting boos from protesters while he was still in Iraq? His "conservative" friends who marched with him? Or his mom, quoted at a pre-war, pro-war rally?

Army Corporal Jason Gilson is in Kuwait. His mom, Tamar Gilson, is tired of the U.S. crying wolf. "If I raised my children that way and never backed it up with any discipline there would be a lot of problems."

www.komotv.com/yourmoney/story.asp?ID=23524

A real "with your shield or on it" kind of mom.

I'd like to hear another account of this supposed event. At least the young still hero can still walk, unlike so many others.

[TahitiNut]

17. Bainbridge Island is conservative, NOT liberal.

Good grief! I've spent LOTS of time there and have very close friends who live there now. The area, across the sound from Seattle, is overrun with military and conservatives. While nowhere near as right-wing as eastern Washington state, only a shameless propagandist would characterize it as "left-leaning."

[Alpharetta]

18. I trust Robert Jamieson

based on his other columns, he appears to not be playing to the rightwingers

[Wilber_Stool]

21. I couldn't fine anything in

other Seattle papers about this but I did find something about NASCAR. Pretty funny.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0427/040707_news_letters.php

[cmf]

25. I read this column this morning

I live nearby, and usually go to this parade. I missed the parade this year, so I didn't actually see this happen. I have friends who go every year, so I'm going to ask them about it. I can guarantee that he will get tons of letters from angry Bainbridge residents.

Usually Robert Jamieson columns will work like this: He gets contacted by someone who is "mistreated" and then writes a sob story about it in his column. The columns are always one-sided like this. I don't doubt that the guy he talks about got a few boos, but I can imagine that they were booing because of the Bush sign, not the fact that he was a veteran. And I can guarantee that it wasn't some huge angry mass booing him, like Jamieson is spinning, just a few people here and there. It sucks that it happened at all, because of the way it will get spun. But he should have known he would have gotten jeers if he was marching in the Bainbridge 4th of July parade holding a freaking Bush sign. :dunce:

[Raster]

44. Here, here...another 'OUTRAGE' story by jamieson...

[BiggJawn]

26. Where's the SPIT?

He's supposed to say "SPAT upon and called a Babykiller" like every Freeper who's ever claimed to have gone to Nam claims to have been...

So he makes his own self-fulfilling prophecy...

[Minstrel Boy]

28. He's spitting into the wind, and running into it. n/t

[DrWeird]

27. Hey, if he supports Bush...

he is a goddamned baby-killer.

Veteran or no.

[Joanne98]

31. Correction "Baby Torturer"

If those were REAL liberals they would have said "torture" instead. It's more current. That's just another reason why this story is BS.......

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[playahata1]

54. Aren't you supposed to be somewhere else?

n/t

[lanparty]

49. No, he's a ...

... baby killer supporter.

And lets get something clear. The people who shout "BABY KILLER" are conservatives. They went straight from anti-soldier protests to anti-abortion protests.

The big difference is that Bush started a campaign to kill thousands of LIVE BABIES, not babies who could potentially be born in 6 months.

[Vogon_Glory]

29. Unfortunately, Some Progressives Don't Have Brains, Either

Alas, there probably are a few progressives who lack the brains or the wisdom to realize that veteran-bashing pays directly into the hands of the hands of right-wing extremists, neocons, jinogists, and George Walker Bush. However much most of us oppose the Iraq invasion, there is no excuse for jumping on the soldiers, airmen, and sailors who were sent in harm's way by this feckless administration.

Alas, I find such actions by a few brainless progressives all too plausible, however much the rest of us shake our heads in dismay and disbelief.

I don't know if the fools who buzzed the veteran in Bainbridge reads the DU boards or not. If he or she does, here's a personal message:

Thanks for nothing. You should be ashamed of yourselves for your treatment of this Republic's servicemen. Your actions also play directly into the hands of the likes of Bush, Cheney, and Rove and provide rich fodder for reactionary propaganda mills. Your stupid actions are undoing a lot of hard work and politicking many progressives have made to reach out to our allies among middle America and to live down the classist snobbery of a few Vietnam era protestors. Right-wing agent provocateurs couldn't have done a better job on behalf of George Walker Bush.

[colonel odis]

30. smells like a right-wing setup to me.

n/t

[KayLaw]

32. I don't know about this

It sounds like second-hand reporting. The Chamber person says he believes the mother about what she heard, but who knows? And if someone actually did say " baby killer " maybe it was some morally clear pro-life person, upset by the killing of the innocent children of Iraq. This article belongs in the Editorial forum, IMHO, as it has lots of spin without a lot of facts.

[hughee99]

34. It sounds a lot like second hand reporting...

But I think it's much more likely that it was a progressive idiot or repuke propagandist than a morally clear pro-lifer.

[riverwalker]

33. FAKE (belongs in the NY Post)

look at the kneejerk trigger words like "protestors" and "babykiller" right out of the 60's. Look at the timing, right before the convention. Rove is doing his best to "1968" the convention, this FAKE story is part of it. Just be on our toes.

[jicasteve]

43. Hippie from the 60's type flipped him the bird

My Navy son mentioned to me that last week some hippie from the 60's type flipped him the bird. He just laughed it off, and I refrained from making comment. But my own memories of the mistreatment of the Vietnam veterans came rushing back at me. I am sure you will pull the plug on me because free speech is more of something you would rather talk about rather then tolerate. I served in the USAF 75-79 and am not a Vietnam veteran however I proudly served with many of them and perhaps if you quit bashing them and start thanking them maybe Kerry will get a larger share of the 26 million veterans that are mad as hell & ready to vote for Bush.

[MsUSA]

50. jicasteve: thank you for your service and welcome to DU's.

[Bridget Burke]

53. Give your Navy son a camera.

We'd love to see documentation of any actual neo-60's disrespect of our service members.

Of course, most of didn't really hapen in the 60's, either.

[Raster]

35. first of all the story itself is a bit too dramatical...

second, the kid was carrying a "Veterans for Bush" sign. In western Washington.

In addition:

""It wasn't her intention to incite anything -- that's what she told me," Dwyer said. "But if she acted out of school, that's not what we're about."

Dwyer added: "I believe (Jason's) mom when she said her son was called 'a murderer.' But I'm sure it wasn't so much directed at the kid as it was the president. A soldier with a sign represents that."

The female announcer told Dwyer that some in the Bush-Cheney contingent in the parade seemed "militant."

And so, battle lines are drawn."

this story smells like flame-bait from the first word. Besides, what do people expect. Most of the world KNOWS gee-dubya and $hrubco are lying sacks of shit. You carry a sign saying your a "Veteran for Bush," you takes what you gets.

[TankLV]

36. Just because he's a soldier, why should he get special treatment?

I ANYONE supports the crinimal, lying thugs in OUR White House, they deserve all the boos and heckles they get. I don't care WHO they are or what JOB they have or have had.

The "babykiller" is pure bullshit. I bet there were more "bush* is an aasshole" phrases thrown around than anything else.

[hughee99]

37. I agree n/t

[Jade Fox]

39. Something fishy here...

This guy may well have been booed for visably supporting Bush, but the
whole "baby killer" thing sounds like either someone is imagining things
or deliberately trying to set up anti-Bush people. That phrase is almost
a cliche' from the Vietnam era.

Jamieson is someone I trust, so I wonder if he hasn't been conned here.
I wonder how hard he nailed his sources down on this story.

[northzax]

40. and the issue with the announcer

it sounds like this vet was spoiling for a fight, if you think everyone is against you, then you interpret a question (from the child of a soldier killed in action, no less) as an attack.

it's ugly all around.

[Gyre]

46. Suck it up soldier

Jesus, what a crybaby. Take the effin uniform off and get on with your life!

Gyre

[DaveSZ]

51. Appaerently this writer didn't read the Senate Intel report on Iraq

that said we attacked Iraq for no reason.

Bush seems to think you can just bomb anyone and as long as you call it "the war on terror" people will go along with it.

I certainly don't agree with people calling this guy a "baby killer" though.

That's over the line clearly.

[myopic4141]

52. My question.

What was he doing carrying a support Bush poster while marching in a parade while in uniform in the first place? That is supposedly against military regulations. If he wished to show his support for Bush, he is not suppose to be in uniform when doing so; but, in civilian dress instead.