Robert Fisk: Who killed Margaget Hassan?

[Jack Rabbit]

From the Independent of London via The Star of South Africa and CommonDreams
Dated Wednesday November 17

Margaret Hassan`s Suspected Execution Will Be Seen As "Proof" of Evil
By Robert Fisk

After the grief, the astonishment, heartbreak, anger and fury over the apparent murder of such a good and saintly woman, that is the question her friends - and, quite possibly, the Iraqi insurgents - will be asking.

This Anglo-Irish woman held an Iraqi passport. She had lived in Iraq for 30 years, she had dedicated her life to the welfare of Iraqis in need.

She hated the United Nations sanctions and opposed the Anglo-American invasion.

So who killed Margaret Hassan?

Read more.

[SharonAnn]

1. She had converted to Islam many years ago. So the terrorists

killed a woman of Islam.

I don't get it. It's not like she was an enemy occupier.

[Mika]

2. Which terrorists?

:shrug:

[othermeans]

18. Who says she's dead? Body found in Iraq not Margaret Hassan

Britain says body found in Iraq not Margaret Hassan

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002106129_webhassan01.html

[drostie]

29. :-)

very interesting!

[NEOBuckeye]

3. Cheney probably wanted her dead.

Because murdering such a widely respected and well-regarded innocent woman would just add more fuel to the fire of war in Iraq -- On both sides.

Just what that fucking bastard wants. Wouldn't suprise me if he ordered special ops on this one.

[whistle]

4. John Negroponte, this act has his evil mark on it...

...and in the author's own words he says: "What more ruthless way could there be of demonstrating to the world that the US and Interim Prime Minister Iyad Alawi's tinpot army were fighting "evil" in Fallujah and the other Iraqi cities? "

True, Fisk goes on to say that he does not suggest that anyone with the Alawi government would consider doing such a despicable thing. But John Negrponte has a long track record in Central America under Ronald Reagan and let's not forget the PMF's with armies numbering over 15,000 highly paid mercenaries who would kill on contract and never be held accountable. Stay tuned, more shall be revealed.

[peekaloo]

8. I thought about this rat bastard being involved, too.

That poor woman.

Slow march to formally denounce the Geneva Convention as irrelevant in the war on terra.

[Crassus]

5. Conspiracies don't become intelligent people

While I have no problems seeing the potential for other involvement, shouldn't we at least get some actual data before looking for conspiracies ?

It feels like we do our own point of views a disservice by delving into a conspiracy theory so quickly with so little evidence.

It's a violent part of the world. She was a westerner - albeit with Iraqi citizenship and a saintly attitude.

Is it so hard to believe that the hard and violent insurgents in Iraq would kill someone like Margaret Hassan ?

[puddycat]

7. gee, can we guess who made it a "violent part of the world"??????

Most of Iraq was not violent before the CIA dipped its hands in Iraq decades ago. Saddam Hussein was CIA ordered and made, after all. He belonged to us. Until our government decided he didn't.

And this isn't "conspiracy theory"--its fact. So, if we can make and then break Saddam Hussein, along with his entire country, what makes you think that the USA's involvement with the killing Margaret Hassan is so far-fetched?

Frankly, I don't trust the * administration and its PNAC thugs at all. Many of their associates are behind much of the evil perpetrated in that part of the world for decades.

[CHIMO]

9. Insurgents

Should get out and leave the country to the Iraquis.

[Raster]

28. That's right. Insurgents from all sides, including us, should get out.

[southlandshari]

10. Yes

On edit:

Subject line was my response to the question in the post:

"Is it so hard to believe that the hard and violent insurgents in Iraq would kill someone like Margaret Hassan?"

[RyomaSakamoto]

11. is it so hard to believe that we would kill her to foster that meme

"Is it so hard to believe that the hard and violent insurgents in Iraq would kill someone like Margaret Hassan"

nope... not with this crews record though it is hard to believe that the resistance would expect them to gain support among the populace which they depend upon.

peace

[CHIMO]

12. Dems Ignore Negroponte's Death Squad Past, Look to Confirm Iraq Appointmen

SISTER LAETITIA BORDES: Why yes, good morning Amy. As I mentioned yesterday on your program, I had gone to Honduras to meet with then-ambassador John Negroponte to find out what had happened to 32 women from El Salvador, who had taken refuge in Honduras and who disappeared. At that time there was the Battalion 316. The Battalion was another name for the horrible death squad that was operating in Honduras at that time. That was well known to ambassador Negroponte. The reason I say it was very well known to ambassador Negroponte was that General Alvarez Martinez was then chief of the Honduran armed forces, and he was the secret head of battalion 316. Now, Negroponte and Martinez, the people would tell you, it was known that they would wine and dine together, and had ongoing connections. So, it is absurd to think that Mr. Negroponte would say that he did not know what was going in El Salvador at that time. As I found out 13 years later that the women we were looking for had been badly, badly tortured and then put in a helicopter and dropped into the ocean. They used Salvadoran military and helicopters to take these women and drop them over the ocean. Now, Battalion 316 continued to function the whole time that Negroponte was there, and I don't think too many people know that General Gustavo Martinez was kind of, quote, “Beheaded by his own military.” There was kind of a coup, and he took temporary refuge in the United States. When he went back to Honduras, he was assassinated. I don't think many people know about that. It is believed that he was assassinated by members of the military, who were very upset with him because of deals that he had made with the United States while he was the general. What angers me -- angers me very, very much is that there's absolutely no reference being made to the past of Mr. Negroponte in Honduras during these hearings. We just don't hear anything about it. We do not learn from our history. The people of Iraq are those who are going to be the ongoing victims of John Negroponte, who believes that the end justifies the means.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/28/1449257&mode=thread&tid=25

[Jack Rabbit]

13. Negroponte's past doesn't prove that he killed Margaret Hassan

It really doesn't even invite suspicion. She was in the business of providing humanitarian aid, not actively undermining the US occupation (although I would be very surprised if she had a positive opinion of it). The death squads Negroponte helped enable in the eighties targeted insurgents and land reformers, not aid providers. Margaret Hassan does not fit the profile of a victim of Negroponte's old Latin American allies.

Furthermore, the MO of Latin American death squads was to leave their calling card. When one was murdered by a paramilitary death squad, it did not look like anything else. There was a point to that. The idea was to discourage activity detrimental to the wealthy land owners by brutally murdering labor leaders and peasant organizers. It would have been counterproductive to make such a death appear to be the work of other insurgents or even random violence.

As Fisk points out, it is plausible to assume this was a band of thugs who were holding Ms. Hassan for ransom or some kids in capes who wanted to strike a blow for Iraqi liberation (the real kind, not the kind Bush brings) and exposed themselves as a bunch of grotesque amateurs. Again, as Fisk points out, even Zarqawi said she should be released. Ms. Hassan didn't fit the profile of one of Zarqawi's victims, either.

Zarqawi has no more place in the future of a liberated Iraq than he has in the future of a colonial Iraq. When a bunch of thugs gives Zarqawi the opportunity to play the role of elder statesman, this group has really messed up.

Fisk's overall point is that this band of thugs could not have operated prior to the invasion. In the sense that we must hold Bush and the neocons responsible for the present chaos in Iraq, they must share in the responsibility for the murder of Ms. Hassan.

[CHIMO]

15. No Proof Is Given

Different strokes for different folks.
A zebra can't change their stripes.
When objectives are taken into consideration one has to look at all possible causes.

[IllegalCombatant]

26. what happened to Father James Carney, who was a priest who disappeared

what happened to Father James Carney, who was a priest who disappeared in 1983?

...


On Thursday, the Senate voted 95 to 3 to approve UN ambassador John Negroponte as the head of the new US embassy in Iraq. According to the Los Angeles Times, only one Senator, Democrat Tom Harkin of Iowa said that Negroponte's record as ambassador of Honduras made him the wrong choice to represent the country in Iraq. Harkin accused the nominee of lying to his bosses and to Congress about the death squads that were responsible for the disappearance of 184 people, including an American priest, while he was ambassador to Honduras.

...

He had two jobs there, the article explains. One was to insure that congress didn't get upset about the fact that the Honduras run security forces were carrying out tortures and massacres and things, - battalion 316 that Amy was talking about. He had to deny those so that the military aid would keep coming for him to be able to carry out his major task, which was, of course, supervising the contra camps in Honduras, from which the C.I.A. mercenary army was attacking Nicaragua, and not a small affair.


The death toll in Nicaragua from the U.S. terrorist war based in Honduras per capita, relative to population, would be the same as about 2.5 million dead in the United States, which turns out to be higher than the total number of American deaths in all wars in the U.S. History, including the Civil War.

more...
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/07/1450219

of course that doesn't prove they/him did it but it certainly places them/him high on the suspects list.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Thanks for the look at that transcript. A lot of us have read quite enough

about John Negroponte to have developed a very keen sense of his character, or utter void where his character should have been, rather.

It's good not to take the hard right's explanation of events. Glad to see your link. Hope more and more people start doubting the hogwash they've been fed.

He's got some rough times ahead if there actually IS a day of reckoning.

[Bridget Burke]

14. Yes, it's hard to believe ....

And where'd you get that phrase "hard and violent insurgents in Iraq"--does it make you all tingly?

No group has taken "credit" for this crime. The only way we'll get data is by asking questions.

When somebody joins DU just to tell us to shut up--it means we should not shut up.

[Crassus]

16. Who is saying shut up ?

"When somebody joins DU just to tell us to shut up--it means we should not shut up."

Bridget, I'm unclear, but are you claiming I have ulterior motives in this discussion?

I can assure you that at heart I am a skeptic for all issues - both the left and the right; both the authoritarian and the anarchist.

That phrase came from my brain just like the rest of my posts, and the content similarly. I'm new to the board, but I'm not asking you to shut up.

I'm asking you to keep a skeptical, but investigative view of the world in which data promotes thought, not suspicion.

I know well the circle of operation for the CIA and what sorts of actions they take - it can be as brutal and dehumanizing as anything done by man to man. Does that mean, that in this case, a good women was slain by shadowy covert operatives when other more likely explanations abound ?

I'm not saying shut up, I'm saying keep it real.

[clem_c_rock]

19. maybe you should really start thinking about who the insurgents are!!!

It is so hard to believe because these so called "hard and violent" insurgents are, if you use a bit of common sense, nationalist fighting for their country. Are you really so gullible into thinking that these people are all warmongering psychopaths?

I mean come on, maybe look into the 1st Iraq occupation by the British in 1917.

-Maybe when the British march into Iraq w/ over 600,000 troops to steal their oil and prop up father/son puppet regime (king Faisel and son)-their people remember

-Maybe when then the CIA helps prop a psychopath like Saddam in power and the US backs his every move for 30 years while he kills millios - their people remember.

-Maybe when then the UN post sanctions, rabidly enforced by the US and British, which kill over a million people - their people remember.

Just because our people are clueless and don't remember: doesn't mean the Iraqi's and the Islamic people don't remember.

Get away from your TV set....

[newyawker99]

22. Hi clem_c_rock!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[clem_c_rock]

21. Neither do Coincedence theories

[Raster]

27. Because, Crassus, she was looked on by the Iraqi people as one

...of them. She was married to a Iraqi. She had converted to Islam.

Is it so hard for you to believe that maybe there is more to her death than we are told?

I am sick and tired of this "conspiracies don't become intelligent people" crap. That's something the fascists say to keep the sheeple cowed and uninformed. Everything is not sweetness and nice. Two elections have been stolen. Unfortunately some conspiracies actually are true. And unfortunately, some of those conspiracies are taking place right now, in this country.

[leftofthedial]

33. UNFOUNDED conspiracies maybe

beyond that, the study of conspiracies is in effect the study of human history.

[juajen]

6. Indeed, who stood to gain from Margaret Hassan's death?

What a gentle, special, irreplacable lady. May her murderers burn in Hell, and God welcome his compassionate angel. Would that we could all be that brave and courageous. In her name, we should all fight even harder to put John Kerry in the white house.

[Raster]

34. Qui bono? Who benefits from Margaret Hassan's death?

Would it be the Iraqis? Would it be Al-Qaeda? Or would it be someone else?

[Martin Eden]

17. Bush killed Margaret Hassan

Just as surely as he has killed everyone who has died in this misbegotten war of his.

[colonel odis]

24. why don't the "insurgents" take out negroponte?

he can't be protected 24/7. anyone can be assassinated.

[RedCheckShirt]

25. There are neocon fingerprints all over this

and maybe Mossad

[Raster]

30. mossad will do anything to help keep the American Likud in power.

Anything.

[RedCheckShirt]

31. It has been documented that Mossad is operating in Iraq

in the Kurdish areas. That is probably where Margaret Hassan's body is.

[Raster]

32. Unfortunately, mossad is controlled at this moment by the Israeli version

...of the PNAC. Fanatics all. You can not reason with a fanatic because they are unable to consider any other view except their own, because they believe they are always right.

And you know what I think is just downright ironic? The original middle eastern terrorists were the zionists.

[RedCheckShirt]

35. Most of the civilized world agrees with what you say

except for the "Red States" and the neocons who control Chimpy.

The United States is facing international isolation over its policies, which are fostered by zionists and fundy Christians.