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Molly Ivins: Social Security Suicide

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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 01:00 PM
Original message
Molly Ivins: Social Security Suicide
Relatively recent writings on Social Security, both to reform and not reform, convince me of two things. One is that we should be looking for maximum skepticism in our sources on this subject. And the second is that anybody who starts with dismissive, condescending and absolutist views isn't worth reading or listening to on this subject. So that leaves out politicians.

There's a lot of fake objectivity out there, too. I personally think the Bush proposal for privatizing Social Security is loony, radical and unnecessary, but that's not an argument, it's a conclusion. It's the people who aren't willing to make the case that you have to watch out for.

Also, beware hidden assumptions -- as in, "Everybody knows Social Security is (a) in trouble, (b) bankrupt or (c) will expire next week." In fact, "everybody knows" very little on this subject because the arguments about the system's future are built on complex, long-term economic models that can easily be thrown off by a single year. And if there's one thing the economy does with some regularity, it is confound expert predictions. Demographic changes, population growth and many other variables also influence how the models are drawn.

A second problem is that reporters of all kinds and stripes are notoriously weak on math. The Nation's Calvin Trillin says his trouble stems from his failure to convince his math teachers that many of his answers were meant in an ironic sense. I sometimes have to call John Pope of the New Orleans Times-Picayune just to make sure that going from 40 percent to 60 percent is still an improvement of 20 percentage points, and also a 50 percent improvement.

more...

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=18239
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. only two steps are needed to "save" Social Security . . .
first, remove the income cap for contributions to the system (currently $87,900/year) . . . tax ALL wage, salary AND bonus income (cash, stock, options, perks, whatever), with no upper limit . . .

second, stop spending the Social Security trust fund . . . put the taxes collected in Al Gore's "lock box" and start building up the fund with real dollars (it currently consists entirely of worthless IOUs) . . .

if these two steps were taken, Social Security would become self-supporting . . . as was intended by its creators . . .
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. What would you do with the trust funds?
Edited on Tue Dec-14-04 07:59 PM by mulethree
If you raise the cap from $88K, would you raise the benefits-payable cap to match? Is someone who pays SS tax on $880K going to get a benefit thats 10X that of the $88K contributor? If so, then how does this help?
Frankly I believe the $880K guy is likely to live longer and receive benefits longer, more than a current 'share'?.

Why wage, salary, bonus but not Capital gains, dividends etc?

The worthless IOU's are US government bonds, much like TBills. They pay interest of around 5% on average. If you don't buy these IOU's, then you ... what? keep a pile of dollar bills around? Then inflation eats it away? Or you invest it in some other low-risk manner, like mortgages or Muni bonds? What makes those less worthless than a T-Bill?

I think, you could diversify the trust fund to include mortgages, muni bonds and such and increase the average return from 5% to 6.5% with minimal increase in risk. This would fix it without individual accounts, or people investing in high-yield/high-risk stocks or junk bonds.
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trekbiker Donating Member (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. worthless IOU's???
The bonds held in the SS trust fund are only worthless if the US govt decides to default. That is not going to happen. I'm sure these NeoCon bastards would just love to default on the SS trust fund bonds. only... they can't. If they did the far larger problem of the IOU's held by the rest of the world in the form of our National Debt would explode. A loss of faith in the US govt repaying it's debt would destroy our currency and economy. Defaulting on the SS bonds would result in this loss of faith, even if the govt promised they wouldn't default on the National debt IOU's. Who would believe them??

SS is not even close to being in a crisis. The real crisis is the exponentially growing National Debt. 7.4 trillion plus the 1.5 trillion owed to the SS trust fund. We are in BIG TROUBLE here. and it isnt because of SS. SS is in great shape, the govt isnt. I suspect that eliminating the income cap alone would solve any long term funding problems. Even if nothing is done the govt could simply borrow to make up the difference just like their doing right now to fund Bush's tax cuts, war in Iraq, social program spending, star wars bullshit, etc. But this out of control borrowing from everyone, including the SS trust fund is the real looming nightmare.
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InformedSource Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's good to keep reminind ourselves that the so-called
"conservatives" hate Social Security and all other safety net programs. Whatever they say, they think those programs are Communism. They believe that Government should help businesses and the military to the max, but that any government help to an individual is bad.

Let no one be snookered by them. Do not believe a single word they say, especially things like President Junior's campaign promise that "no one's current benefits will be cut." If they can, they will, and they will lie like hell to do so, feeling self righteous the whole time.
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. they may hate it but you can bet your bottom dollar they are
taking those checks every month when they turn 65 or 67 or whatever age they are.

And they are not turning down Medicare either, just because they have $$ in the bank. I know that for a FACT!!!!!!!


Back when I worked in the Tennesee Part B claims office, one of my co workers blurted out " I just got a claim from Mrs. W*** **** Sr" (now this was 30 years ago and the person was the mother of a prominent Republican politician in Tennessee ...and also quite wealthy in her own right) and five other people piped up: "Deny it, she's too rich to deserve Medicare" and then we all had a good laugh and unfortunately paid for her gallbladder or whatever it was.

This lady did not need Medicare, believe me but there she was getting her surgery covered for the ridiculously low premium at the time, this was when the Annual Ded was about $30 per year or something like that.

Means testing is another solution, or at least a component thereof
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InformedSource Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Right you are. They're against a lot of things that they often due n/t
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Ready2Snap Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
5.  My 2 cents
I agree with all the above and want to add this:
The foremost calumny about SS is its imminent implosion. If nothing changes from the way it is run now, the fund will be solvent through 2052!!! So what’s the big rush?
This should be the first thing out of our mouths to refute any argument for the immediate need for reforming SS.
As for the gains, so glowingly proffered, by direct, private investment in the stock market a one word answer should suffice: ENRON.
With the burgeoning national debt and ever-increasing federal trade imbalance portending major financial upheaval, this is no time to start speculating with the communal nest egg of millions of citizens.

Reagan’s policies and tactics of the ’80s were just a dry run for the coming attack on our national social compact.
At two thirds of the federal budget, SS and Medicare offer the perfect and final solution to the conservative dream of bankrupting the government, consolidating all the nation’s wealth in the hands of an economic aristocracy and plundering every natural resource on the planet.
The means to that end is to destroy the crown jewel of FDR’s New Deal: Social Security.
We need to use these arguements, framed just this way, to drive home just what "reforming" SS is really all about.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Welcome to DU. And thanks for succinctly remonding us of
the facts and foibles.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Social Security
and don't forget , we are all getting this for free. None of us pay into it ect. We are sucking on the system , according to the * crooks.
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trotcop Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. Anti-Social Security

The battle for Social Security's survival is under way. In a key maneuver recently, N. Gregory Mankiw, George W. Bush's chief economic adviser, explicitly floated the idea of cutting benefits, a necessary but unmentioned part of the White House's privatization plan. More details will be presented to the public in the weeks ahead, but the outlines of the Bush plan are already clear, having been laid out by his 2001 Social Security Commission. As Mankiw suggested, the Bush plan would require a large reduction in the benefits provided by the existing system. A worker who is 20 today would see a cut of approximately one-third in his or her retirement benefit, although workers would theoretically more than recoup this loss by investing a portion of their Social Security taxes in a private account.

The President's main pitch is that these accounts will yield higher returns than Social Security does. The pitch also includes rhetoric about the accounts being "your money," and giving every worker a stake in the "ownership society." These claims are mostly bad math, faulty logic and deception. Advocates of private accounts assume that the stock market will give the same returns in the future as it has in the past, even though price-to-earnings ratios in the stock market are far higher now than in the past, and the Social Security trustees project that profits will grow at about half the rate they did in the past. None of the proponents of privatization have yet passed the "no economist left behind test," which asks them to show the set of dividend yields and stock price increases that add up to the stock returns they assume in their analysis.

Private accounts also have high administrative costs. According to Bush's Social Security Commission, their private accounts will cost about ten times as much to administer as in the current system if they're handled through a single government-managed system. If Wall Street gets its hands on this money, with everyone going to his or her local bank or brokerage house--as is the case with the privatized systems in England and Chile--the costs could be thirty times as high as the cost of our Social Security system. When the administrative costs are combined with real numbers on stock returns, the individual accounts will provide no better returns on average than the government bonds currently held by the Social Security trust fund. The accounts just add risk--individuals may invest poorly or retire during a market downturn, leaving them with much less money than they'd have under the current system.

The faulty logic is telling workers that the dollars in their accounts are "your money." When money is genuinely "your money," you do what you want with it. This is a real problem--restrictions on existing private retirement accounts have consistently been relaxed to allow withdrawals for education, starting a business or other purposes. These are legitimate uses of workers' money, but not the way to secure money for retirement. The only way to preserve money for retirement is if the government requires that it stay in the account--but then it is not really "your money."

Under Bush's plan, workers will even be able to pass their private accounts on to their children, which raises the same problem. If the account will be there to support a worker's retirement, then the money can't also be passed down to children. While a small number of wealthy people may be in a position of not needing their accounts, creating this opt-out option will add further to the administrative costs for everyone--reducing benefits by another 5 to 10 percent, according to an extensive body of research.

Of course, the only reason anyone is even talking about cutting benefits and privatizing the program is that the right has managed to convince the public that Social Security is on its last legs. For more than two decades they have spread stories about the baby boomers bankrupting the system and multitrillion-dollar debts left to our children and grandchildren. In reality the program can pay all scheduled benefits long past the boomers' retirement. According to the Social Security trustees report, it can pay full benefits through the year 2042 with no changes whatsoever. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office puts the date at 2052. And even after those dates, Social Security will always be able to pay a higher benefit (adjusted for inflation) than what retirees receive today. Those scary multitrillion-dollar debts translate into a deficit equal to 0.7 percent of future income--presented in very precise form in the Social Security trustees report for those who care to look.

Social Security is the country's most important and successful social program. It provides a large measure of economic security to the whole country, uniting the interests of the poor and the middle class. The program not only keeps tens of millions of retirees out of poverty, it also provides disability and survivors insurance to almost the entire working population. More children receive benefits from Social Security than from the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program (the revamped welfare program). Social Security is also extremely efficient and has a minimal amount of fraud and abuse.

It's a hugely popular program. Close to 90 percent of the public regularly affirms that we spend either too little or the right amount on Social Security. While polls also show majority support for private accounts, that's only when the question is asked, Would you like a private account? When the real-world question, Would you like a private account if it means a cut in your Social Security benefits? is asked, substantial majorities say no. Bush's Social Security plans are grounds for a decisive battle early in the Administration's second term. The public is overwhelmingly on our side; they just need to know the truth.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041227&s=baker

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