Have a Merry Christmas ... while you can

[RedEarth]

Saturday evening our family attended the arrival of the Canadian Pacific Christmas train at Winona's Amtrak depot. It was a super event, and hundreds of people showed up to hear entertainment and contribute to Winona's food shelves. As I was walking through the crowd, one of the entertainers said, "Now let's play some Christmas songs." The cynic in me said, "Yeah, we might as well do it now before the Supreme Court outlaws them."


Unfortunately, my cynicism is well founded. In a country where about 80 percent of the population identifies themselves as "Christians or like," the American Civil Liberties Union, atheists, and secularists are centered on eliminating the very word "Christmas" and its meaning. Some examples should suffice.


New York City's public schools can display a Menorah for Hanukkah, a Muslim flag for Ramadan, but it is forbidden to display the nativity scene in honor of the federal holiday of Christmas.


Some schools have banned "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" from public school concerts. Why? Because they consider the lyrics, "Then one foggy Christmas Eve ..." to be offensive to non-Christians.


A Pennsylvania public-school teacher, reacting to ACLU warnings, confiscated a student's holiday cards, to be given to classmates, because the salutation "Merry Christmas" was written on them.


The mayor of Summerville, Mass., in response to a single secular critic, apologized for using the words "Christmas party" in a letter sent to citizens.

http://www.winonadailynews.com/articles/2004/12/16/opinion/comcol_16.txt

[villager]

1. think you posted this on the wrong board

n/t

[RedEarth]

3. No, it's an opinion/editorial...belongs in this forum....nt

[villager]

8. okay -- sometimes, without annotation, it's hard to tell

...where the poster stands, esp. with rightwing material that shows up here...

But yeah, it's valuable to know about the endless persecution complex of the Other Side, and how they'll never have enough, etc. (Even if they get their theocracy, they'll have to turn on each other).

So, if that was your intention, then no hard feelings, and let me stake you to a spiked egg nog...

[radwriter0555]

2. Good. I want the ACLU making sure my kid is exposed to cult holiday

wierdness as little as possible.

[ET Awful]

4. So where exactly is "Summerville, Mass.?"

I know where Somerville is, I even lived there for overe 5 years. Never heard of "Summerville" though. It's actually a pretty great town.

[Nikepallas]

5. Ashame you feel as if Christmas should eclipse all other traditions

some of which are older than the Christmas celebration you refer to.

[AllegroRondo]

6. Christmas is already a federal holiday

how much more recognition do they want?

"Christmas gives non-christians a day off to reflect on the true meaning of separation of church and state"

[briang5000]

7. latest talking point designed to eliminate the ACLU

the GOP hates the ACLU.... they'd like nothing better than to discredit the ACLU until it no longer exists.

Do a google search for ACLU attacking Christmas and you'll see hundreds of mentions of this talking point...

Usually something like the ACLU isn't attacking Christmas, they're attacking God.

This is just the beginning of a concerted effort by the neo-cons to eventually marginalize the ACLU off the page.

A city shouldn't be spening tax money erecting navitity season nor should they spend tax money erecting decorations for Octoberfest, Halloween, Forth of July, or any holiday. Let the citizend decorate their homes; let the businesses decorate their stores; but don't overlook what's really going on.

[alarimer]

20. yes

This seems to be this year's selected "scandal". All the atheists are runining Christmas. What BS. Why, incidentally, is Christmas a federal holiday?? Doesn't that violate the separation of church and state. Not that I mind having the day off, but it still seems funny.

[Nay]

9. Why do you think this festival will ban mention of Christmas?

The ONLY cases that the ACLU handles, and wins, are cases where a GOVERNMENTAL BODY (school, county gov, state gov, fed gov) has inserted artifacts of any specific religion into its own ceremonies or displays.

This means that any privately or corporately run festival, store, park, etc., can do any damn thing it wants! The ACLU does not give a damn about Christmas, Hanukah, Ramadan, etc., or how anyone wants to celebrate it -- as long as it stays out of governmental bodies.

[genieroze]

10. This is backlash from the secular population.

I don't blame them. As a Christian I can understand. How? I wouldn't like it if they told me I had to believe in Judaism or Islam or nothing at all. These Reich Wing Neocon Fundies are causing a backlash against Christianity. They are trying to shove their narrow minded views down peoples throats and people are shoving back. When I hear people on DU slamming Christians I understand why. I happen to agree with them.

[Zenlitened]

11. "... Fundies are causing a backlash against Christianity."

I think you're exactly right.

I also suspect that this was all part of the intended outcome of the "culture war" the Fundies have been trying to wage all these years. Goad the other side into hitting back and viola! all their bullying suddenly seems justified.

Ugh.

[dkofos]

12. WTF

:puke:

[tillary adams]

13. They can display Christmas Trees, and they do.

"New York City's public schools can display a Menorah for Hanukkah, a Muslim flag for Ramadan, but it is forbidden to display the nativity scene in honor of the federal holiday of Christmas."

A false dichotomy, since they can display other signs of Christmas, such as Christmas trees, Santa, reindeer, and elves. I think the nativity scene is not allowed in public schools because it is more related to worship.

And here in NYC, probably a lot more than 20% are not Christians. That includes not only jews, but muslims, hindus, sikhs, atheists, etc. And still, signs of Christmas are everywhere. What a phony, hyped up, non-issue.

[newyawker99]

15. Hi tillary adams!!

Wecome to DU!! :toast:

[Bridget Burke]

14. RedEarth: Do YOU have an opinion?

You do know this false controversy was begun by the worst of the Dominionists, don't you?

Fox News likes to pass on their stories. There's no shortage of credulous fools.

[Jason Bradfield]

16. the truth

Why don't people come out with the truth about Christmas? It is a pagan holiday. We should recognize this in our public ceremonies explicitly. We already do so implicitly as many Christmas traditions are in fact pagan traditions.

If the right really wants that old time religion - let's give it to them:
Io Saturnalia!

Jason Bradfield
jaybradfield.blogspot.com

[winston61]

19. right on the money

The Christians who claim 'Jesus is the reason for the season' are entitled to think what they like. But there is no historical evidence to back up the birth of Christ tradition. But that's OK too. Let's remember that all of this mid winter celebration is based in myth and folklore. Our pagan ancestors celebrated the solstice with a festival. The holly, the ivy, the mistletoe are all pagan symbols. We should celebrate these events. They are our history, what has made us who we are. If others want to attach a different spiritual significance, power to 'em. Religion in the wrong hands has inspired much harm. But I think far more good is done in the name of religion. It's up to us to know that the Falwells, Robertsons and Dobsons are evil men who don't care about humanity. I'm not offended by the phrase 'Merry Christmas'. I'm not offended or threatened by 'Happy Holidays'. What a country we could have if people cold learn to keep their beliefs to themselves and leave other people alone.

[BrainRants]

17. Winona is nestled between the cliffs of the Mississippi river...

in Minnesota about 150 miles downstream from Minneapolis.

If not for the (minimal) diversity of the two colleges in the city, it would rank pretty low on the "well rounded" scale in terms of exposuire to people of other religions, let alone color.

That's a polite way of saying that Winona is a time capsule, and those living there need not fear Christmas disappearing any time soon, it would be 20 years before Winona caught up if it did happen.

Your fears are terribly unfounded, stop listening to O'Liely and get out more.

Discolsure: I'm a life long and regular visitor to Winona and love the city. However, debating religious diversity with people living there is an oxymoron. Not meant as flamebate, just an observation over my life.

[CatholicEdHead]

18. Well

"Men and women of virtually all religions are free to live and flourish in the United States of America, but we are predominantly a Christian country. There's nothing wrong with that. Most residents of Israel practice Judaism, complete with public displays during Hanukkah, without much fuss from the non-Jewish population. The United Arab Emirates is a Muslim country. During Ramadan most non-Muslims in the UAE refrain from eating in public during daylight hours to respect the Muslim majority who observe a fast from dawn to dusk. Indians have numerous Hindu festivals, complete with elaborate displays, yet Christmas is a federal holiday in India. In most of the world's countries there is nothing wrong with respecting and honoring the country's majority religion, as long as all other religions and their worshipers are protected and respected. Should Christians in the United States expect less than this?"

Point of discussion here with his error. Just because a religion has a majority of people in the country does not mean it is a religious Theoracy of that type.

This guy totally bought into the non-issue of "taking away Christmas" this year.

[eldepeche]

21. My favorite anecdote on this subject:

I was watching Crossfire yesterday, and Carlson was insisting that liberals are out to banish the word "Christmas," while Begala said it was corporations trying to milk more cash out of a "holiday." I then changed to FOX News to see all the different news bureaus wishing everyone "Happy Holidays!" Either FOX is liberal and Mr Bowtie is right, or FOX is trying to make money and Mr Wiener is right.