DLC: Graham ought to quit impeachment talk

[GBD4]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/nation/6406411.htm

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Graham, meanwhile, faced a backlash from Republicans and a mild swipe from a DLC official for recent remarks suggesting that Bush's justification for the war -- and his potential misstatements regarding nuclear materials -- was an impeachable offense more serious than President Clinton's indiscretions.
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[protect freedom impeach bush now]

1. FUCK THE DLC !

Just more proof that the DLC is/has completely gone to
the dark-side.

IMPEACHMENT should be on EVERY elected DEMOCRATS AGENDA.

Elected DEMs should ALL be screaming for IMPEACHMENT OF BUSH.

The DLC are nothing but Bush enablers & corporate whores.

[Kahuna]

34. Kucinich said on Buch and Press today that bush should not be

impeached. Is Dennis, DLC too?

[Cha]

2. Go Bob Graham! the dlc are appeasers and I hope we the

People oust them on their snarly ass. I'm sick of reading about their dino opinions on our race for the White House.

:kick:

[salin]

3. Wow... turning on another one of their own.

Almost looks like when an organization is starting to realize they may lose power and influence - and in the last attempts to keep control they start trying to control everything/everyone and in the end cause more internal divisions and weakening within the institution itself. Are they starting to self-destruct?

[Pepperbelly]

4. it appears so to me ...

And what is odd about it to me is it seems to be entirely of their own making. Such pronouncements on a daily basis from these guys has damaged their credibility among mainstream Democrats (of which I am one, of course :D )because they seem so desperate somehow.

It seems to me as if the reason why they are doing this might be more susceptable to psychological evaluation than political strategy. But their constant bitching, to my moderate ear, is becoming strident and irritating.

[tjdee]

7. It defies logic, doesn't it?

I'm not a moderate, but it appears to me as you have said.

The behavior of the leadership of the DLC is becoming puzzling and more than a little strange.

For two political consultants (From and Reed) you'd expect more.

[salin]

13. snarf!

I have been wondering about that psychiatric component for almost a year. Not of all - and not even of all members - but of those directing the policies/strategies and carrying the "voice". A letter last summer (available on their website) warned dems not to talk TOO strongly about the corporate scandals that had brought down several companies - and left the investing public to realize that the market had come as chancy as Las Vegas - as that all earnings reports were now completely suspect. Huge amounts of dollars lost - hurting workers whose organizations shifted from pensions to 401ks and IRAs.

Ripe issue - and a serious one. One could be strong and firm on the issue - and be clear that the problem was not ALL companies - but those participating in deceptive practices needed to change as it is a danger to our economy and exceptionally unjust.

But no, they were told talk about the sluggish economy, be critical but don't go TOO far in criticism of corporate america. (It was that explicit).

Whhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaat?

Combine that with the moderate consultants (not necessarily DLC - and one of the partners was Carville) who said on the eve of the war vote that reps and senators would lose more votes by voting against the war resolution, than they would lose by voting for it. Okay. And some dems - notably changed their position within a week before the vote. (Was it due to the sexed up intelligence? or the respected consulants strategy?)

So rather than helping each candidate tailor their message to their particular constituency - they issued broad stroke strategy guidelines that left very few messages for candidates to carry.

Okay - thought I - they suck at strategy. I even GET where they are/were coming from - and in some places they may be right. But even my little time with a consulting firm in DC and working on the Hill gave me better tools/ in terms of planning strategy then what seemed to be mapped out/recommended from these guys. Thats scary - I only dabbled.

Don't know what the problem is. They have some bright minds. Heck, in my DC days I considered myself a "new dem" (though a liberal one) (Those were the Hart days - pre 1988 candidacy implosion). Is it the corporate money problem? I am growing to think more and more that this is a BIG part of the problem.

But they either need to hire some brighter policy/strategy folks... or perhaps you are right - an organizational psych eval might be called for ;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. It wouldn't surprise me if the DLC 's ultimate goal would be to split the

Dem party thus enabling republican rule for decades. It does seem to be the end result of their actions.

[Forkboy]

31. ding ding ding...we have a winner!

I believe that is exactly the case!

These people are NOT on our side.

[lastliberalintexas]

9. From backs Lieberman

I have been saying this for a long time- he will use the DLC to go after ANY other Dem candidate. From has simply been going after Dean b/c he is seen as the one with the momentum and the fundraising abilities.

Some here (not you salin!) have allowed their hatred of Dean to cloud their judgment and have jumped on the bash Dean bandwagon of the DLC. But they will go after the others too! From will go after any of the other 8 that he sees as any kind of threat to his man. That means Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards and Graham for now. So for you bash Dean people- when the DLC starts going after your candidate, how are you going to dismiss them then?

I'm not asking people to support Dean if they have chosen another candidate. All I'm asking is that people start thinkig about From's motives before you do his evil work for him. He's planted plenty of anti-Dean propaganda that is now repeated daily on DU. Is the next target going to be your candidate?

This is yet another unacceptable attack from From against a Dem with a backbone. Graham is right on, and is doing a great job of raising questions concerning 9/11 and the subsequent cover up. I'm just glad From wasn't running things in the 40s- we might all be speaking German right now.

[mlawson]

15. I wonder what the Big Dog thinks about that??

He and From at least used to be buddies, and he helped found the DLC, if I am not mistaken. But I seriously doubt that President Clinton would support Lieberman for 2004.

[haymaker]

5. DLCers are such limpdicks.

Man, why don't they just call for the complete abolition of the Democratic Party, fer chrissakes.

Talk about a bunch of fuckin, coward handjobs. Do they have a single spine amoungst them?

[tjdee]

6. ONE DLC official--and who cares?

Can someone explain to me why anyone cares any more about what DLCers say than, for example, James Carville, or the NAACP?

They're not the DNC. What influence do they have in a)the nominating process, and b)financial backing?

:shrug:

[alyssa_g]

10. Somebody needs a geometry lesson

The DLC complaint that Dems are becoming to far left makes me question their notion of center. Remind me not to go hiking with these guys, we'd end up walking in clockwise circles for hours!

Moderates do NOT win elections, "moderates" (center right?) alienate the base and drive folks to the Greens.

[JackSwift]

8. If getting the country into a phoney war is not impeachable,

then nothing is. Watergate pales in comparison to this. Iran/Contra pales in comparison to this. While impeachment may not be a political reality, I think that Graham has every right to say what he thinks on this matter, and if his conscience impels him to discuss impeachment, then it is also his duty. Do I think that Bush should be impeached over starting war with Iraq under false pretenses? Yes. And I think he should be tried for war crimes. It was an aggressive war for oil conquest from the get go.

[Gringo]

11. Who asked the frickin DLC?

Since when do they own this party? Why not ask someone on the congressional black caucus? Or a democratic women's group? SInce when does this bunch of corporate ho's have THAT MUCH CLOUT?

[GBD4]

17. Agree

It is not the DLC's right to dictate who in the Party says what.

[RainDog]

12. the DLC sucks

dick and bush have committed war crimes.

they are trying to let corporations treat Iraqis any way they please and not be accountable...just like Burma and Unocal and Halliburton.

if what they are doing is not leadership. it is pandering to the white racist fucks who control too much as it is, and play on the me-too-ism of stupid white guys who think they gain power by getting fucked over by repukes economically but get a hard on with all the war talk.

can you tell I'm disgusted?

[xchrom]

30. re: the dlc sucks

they don't do anything that nice.

[ewagner]

14. Seems to me

That the DLC isn't paying attention to the cardinal rule of party politics: PROTECT YOUR BASE!

Instead of protecting it, they are alienating it which is so incredibly stupid I cannot help but think theere is an alterior motive.

Just look at the Rebups...they have no problem stirring up hatred and anger among their most rabid BASE supporters to keep the machine alive. They capture the middle ground by making moderate statements with a wink, wink, nod, nod to the BASE. They are very successful at this and we should be too.

The whole concept of Dems bashing Dems is troubling.

[salin]

16. Remember the DLC isn't the DNC... so maybe they are protecting

what they perceive to be their base... (and I will let the implication hang there).

But when thinking this way remember this is a seperate group from the Dem. National Committee.

[ibegurpard]

18. They are separate all right

they even have a penchant for separating themselves by the NAME they go by: NEW Democrats. Why is that?

[ewagner]

19. Thanks

I am/was aware of that but they seem to be a pretty powerful force in the grand scheme of things....that's what worries me.

"what they percieve to be their base..." confirms that others have the same suspicions.

[salin]

25. See my comment above

I think their recent behavior indicates that they do not hold the sway that they once did (and only relatively briefly in the long scheme of things.) I don't think it is just DUers that realized some of the campaign strategies promoted in the last election... were lame. I think others are dismayed at the lack of reflectiveness in what didn't go well in Gore's campaign - and the DLC perspective that the thing that was making Gore more and more popular (post election) was the very actions the DLC (still) criticizes the most - his moving towards populism and people. Those not agreeing (like some of us here) have to wonder if their perceptions are off, if some of their strategies are not very effective, then why the heck listen to them?

Thus - they appear to be flailing and prognosticating...

"we are important... follow us or lose... we are important... but our member over there - who isn't following our advice... well he now is part of the problem... don't look at him.... remember...we are important... follow us or lose... we are important... but that other member over there - who again is defying our brilliant wisdom... well now HE is part of the problem... don't look at him... remember... we are imporant...." (repeat ad nauseum).

In my eyes this appears to be the look and feel of a desperate organization that is FLAILING and trying desperately to reassert its importance.

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Then DLC is the very reason voters can rightly say:::::::::::::::::

"I can't tell the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans!"

The Democrats in Congress should all do their jobs they were eleceted to do! Thank goodness we have the three Bobs in the US senate or we would already be seeing in action the sinister shit Bushco plans, for after his re-Selection! If Bush wins again welcome to the fourh Reich boys and girls!

Bushco might not have had a good plan for postwar Iraq, but you can bet they plan to GUT this country if people are stupid enough to hand Bush a second term!

The DLC are a bunch of corporate toadies on the WTC World Bank bandwagon! If they care about globalazition they don't care a tinker's damn about working American people, the lower 99% of the political food chain! They didn't bitch about corporate crime because they were in bed with the bastards who were stealing us blind!

Al didn't play hardball ane he's resting on the farm! Lieberman is Bush's Mini Me!

[ElementaryPenguin]

20. How to we go about GETTING RID of the DLC altogether??

We've got a war to fight on two fronts - ChimpCo and the Cheap Labor Party AND the friggin' Cheap Labor Lite DLC!!!! Fuck them!! They HAVE to go!!

[David Zephyr]

21. Death Rattle at the DLC. Their Bark Has No Bite. Bob Graham Shames Them.

Senator Bob Graham, like Governor Howard Dean, are grabbing the American public's ear and hearts because they are demonstrating courage and conviction---two characteristics that the DLC has never known.

The DLC is now meaningless. They are truly a joke, a cartoon, a piece of tissue paper in search of a tiger. Ha!

[calimary]

22. Dear God, WHOSE SIDE ARE THEY ON, ANYWAY?

Every time the DLC opens its collective mouth, I could swear more republicans pop out!

[tom_paine]

23. Sweet Jesus! Do these people have ANY balls?

The Totalitarian Monsters anbd Goebbels v2.0 shrieked impeachement over Clinton's Willy and now these jerkoffs are telling us to sit down and shut up over lies of a worse magnititude by at least 233 American deaths.

God, I can't help it, even though I agree with more than a few of their positions (if you can call any of the mushy abused-wife stances they take, "positions"), they make me sick.

Weak swine. Perhaps we don't deserve freedom with this pack of German Social Democrats circa 1933.

Isn't it funny how the Repigs don't have any "factions" left if their lockstep Nazi Party, but Democratic factions abound?

Your VRWC moles at work. Or perhaps they are just whispering into the ears of timid fools. I can't decide.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

27. Is impeachment talk helping us or hurting us?

If it helps, then "impeachment now!!!" should be shouted from the rooftops 24/7. If it makes us look shrill, petty, partisan and hysterical, then we should tone it down. I have no idea what impeachment talk is doing to the swing voters who will decide this election. My gut tells me it draws attention to Bush's integrity deficiency.

[salin]

28. I read elsewhere today that polling that considered 'swing voters'

found that the swing voters were more critical of bush's Iraq policies than other voters (or at least than of repub. voters... dang I wish I knew where i read that - if I find it I will post it here).

My things isn't necessarily the "impeach now!" (though it sure seems a HELL of a lot more serious than Bill's follies). BUT it IS to keep calling attention to the cynical actions of this administration. Get people to where there awareness is heightened so when they hear the next one or the next one.. they start paying attention and think "WTF are these guys doing?"

- For example, I would bet that the short lived "Pentagon Market" program, for some fence sitters who are starting to pay a little more attention to the news, was a real surprise.. a real "wtf" moment. And those folks will be more attentive and at some point more likely to start getting real critical.

Believe me - this arrogant administration is going to pull off many many many more WTF moments - some (like last nights) pretty astonishingly icky. Those are many more moments to serve as the pivotal wake-up call.

In this scenario criticism is good (the news hasn't til late been doing it - so it has come more from news coverage of the candidates doing it). Then WE have a job to do. We sow the seeds and get people to think. Through conversations, sharing information, pointing out news stories, etc. I really believe folks are busy and complacent (and perhaps still in a bit of a daze from the whole 911 followed by two highly covered wars). One on one conversation is probably the best way to get some nonvoters to vote, to get some fence sitters to decide to move against bush, and to even peel some republicans away (at least for now, against this administration).

[Pepperbelly]

29. the 'honor and dignity' promise puts Bush's character in play ...

and whether or not it helps us politically, I truly think that meglomaniac rat bastard needs to hear the word from time to time. Maybe, if we are lucky, the word might pierce the fog of his ideology and jolt him awake to his own malfeasance.

[salin]

32. Speaking of which.... that little terror market/gambling in the Pentagon =

an Honor and Integrity moment... don't ya think?

Maybe we should make a little catalog of such moments.

[xchrom]

33. timing is everything

bush stumbles badly in the polls and in the press and the dlc steps up it's attacks on the democrat left -- coincidental?

[Kahuna]

35. Consider the sources. DINO, Bayh. And three fascist repukes from FL

and Lieberman. Feh.

The title of the story is somewhat misleading. I believe the main subject of the story is how Democrats stand with the public on security issues.

[camero]

36. No way

The more it gets talked about, the more out in the open his transgressions get and the more media coverage it gets.

Who knows, maybe some reporters could smell blood and see that they have a chance to bring down a president by doing thier constitutional duty?

To be another check on government by exposing them.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

37. Fuck the DLC.

x

[Festivito]

38. Keep talking impeachment.

The press won't tell people that Bush might be lying, let alone that he is lying.

[dusty64]

39. Bob Graham is a moderate

and the dlc doesn't even like him. I wish they would sit down and shut the F up, better yet disband! They make me almost as sick as the repigs lately.

[Buns_of_Fire]

40. Reagan's 11th Commandment comes to mind

To wit, "Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican."

Unfortunately, the DLC has also taken this to heart and also seldom speak ill of a fellow Republican.

My miniscule advise to Al From and Bruce Reed and their ilk: If you can't say anything nice about a fellow Democrat, at least siddown and STFU.

"Leadership Council," my :kick:

[TrueBlueDem]

41. DLC: here to represent the Republican wing of the Democratic part (eom)

[Loonman]

42. Water carriers for Boosh

The DLC are a bunch of irrelevent clowns.

[jamesinca]

43. The DLC ought to kiss my butt

Foreign policy is the strong suit of the Bush administration. I honestly don't feel that Graham is going to win the primary unless he really gets out there and starts working. He is way back in all the polls righ now. So let him beat the crap out of Bush. Make his strong suit weak at best. What can happen here, Bush spends some of his time and money arguing against somebody who is not even going to make it out of the primaries. I think Liberman should also spend his days and nights kicking the crap out of Bush. There are 3 senators and a rep (Gephardt) who are not going to make it out of the primaries unless they start working. They should all make Bush feel like he is getting raped by a gorilla. They should do the sacrafice fly, take one for the team kinda thing.