ABC Shows Video of Apache Attack

[StClone]

You may or may not see a lot of this. Three possible POSSIBLE! Iraqis insurgents blown to bits on-screen night vision! If you want to know what BushCo is doing watch this gut turning video of people torn to dust not even knowing if they were of danger. If there is a God...

[alcuno]

1. Especially nice was the wounded Iraqi on the ground being

"terminated."

[maryallen]

18. "Smoked" was the terminology used --

Unbelievable!!

[Jack_Dawson]

20. Wow that was crazy - I still can't get over it

[NWHarkness]

2. One of the men was wounded...

and they executed him. It was blatant war crime.

[htuttle]

4. Yes it was

He was just lying there writhing in pain, and had no visible weaponry. They shredded him with an anti-tank gun.

[oc2002]

3. Is the video shown on TV anywhere on the net yet?

I hope they do, there are some neo-cons I know that should see it. To them this war is just a media buzz with no connection to reality. That clip is reality.

We have become the Israelies.

[arcane1]

5. what program? What time zone?

I wanna see!

[tinrobot]

31. I don't wanna see...

The description is enough for me to be sickened.

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. I think it will be shown a lot. It's what voters want to see

"Getting the job done."

[StClone]

8. You may be right

Their thoughts may run like this: Take that you rag-heads! Man this is a like a video game! We are so superior! I want to learn to fight like that!

[PsychoDad]

37. It's good for ratings....

Info-tainment, I think it's called. Part of the bread and circus' of modern america.
I would not be suprised if a possible reality-war series was soon in the offering. Sortta like Killer Cops in Baghdad. Focusing upon our troops as they continue the struggle to cleanse Eye-Raq of terraists, whatever their age.

No sarcasm either. For our media, blood sport is the best sport.

[pinkpops]

7. Sick cowardly act

[AromaticSocks]

40. Who are you calling coward?

Not our soldiers I hope. That will go over *so* well with voting Americans. Until you see battle I'd suggest you reconsider who you
claim as cowards.

[FDRrocks]

42. Cowards...

the Flintstones versus modern America. We bombed Iraq via the sky during the war, and crushed thier army in 3 weeks. Now we are still killing people. We fought the helpless 3rd world country for no reason, no reason, no reason, with the army of the most powerful state in the world. Who are the cowards.

[Beaker]

48. One possible definition of a coward-

someone who uses a 30-milimeter electric gatling gun on a wounded man crawling on the ground.

[displacedtexan]

9. My favorite part...

was the guy who ran to the side of the road, laid his rifle down, and ran back to his truck...
then they blew him to bits.

Can't wait to hear the freepin' explanation for that one!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

10. Freepin' explanation:

"It was a pre-emptive action! The fact that he had a rifle at one point was enough to conclude that he would attempt to kill Americans in the future! The soldiers action possibly saved your life!"

[GregW]

11. You think that's bad ....

Check out this video from Afghanistan ... AC 130 gunship vs freedom fighters on the ground. File is 5 MB

http://www.crazyjeff.net/AC130_GunshipMed.wmv

[Lone_Voice]

12. freedom fighters??

The same people that slaughtered their own for years? The same people that executed women if they were to show their face in public or read a book??

I get the point you are trying to make, but the Taliban and Al-Queda are not freedom fighters.

[mike_c]

14. when you're occupying someone else's country against...

...their wishes, everybody who shoots at you is a freedom fighter, no matter what you think of their politics. The U.S. military is the strong arm of the arrogant colonialists in this case, and those "terrorists" are the local militias trying to kick them out of their country. Notice that they largely enjoy the support of the people who live in Afganistan and Iraq.

[Lone_Voice]

59. please....

you cannot be serious. The former Taliban are not fighting for Afganistans "freedom", they are fighting to regain their dominance over a country that no longer wants them.

Do you think there is a single woman in Afganistan that would agree with your assessment???

[PassingFair]

32. But, but, but...

That's the name WE gave them when we we're funneling them money to create a "Vietnam" for the USSR. I distinctly remember the days following 9/11, that creeping feeling like I'd seen these Taliban guys somewhere before. And then the realization, my god, these are the "freedom fighters" we paid and supported.

It's called Blow-back by intelligence agencies. Do some homework.

[MrSlayer]

13. That's what war is.

The one guy definitely had an RPG launcher which I'm sure he wasn't going to use to defend our boys. I think when you are in an unsure situation like that you have to act. They had their orders and carried them out. It is war after all and as opposed to it as I am I still want our troops to win the battles. I don't want our people killed. Would you be happier if these guys shot down the chopper instead? Or used the RPG to take a convoy or a bunch of our troops out? I think they did what they had to do under the circumstances.



Edit: repeated words.

[mike_c]

15. shooting wounded combatants or others who have laid down...

...their arms is a violation of the Geneva Convention. A war crime. Those soldiers should be charged, not congratulated. The fact that they won't be is the central reason for the existance of the ICC, and the primary reason that the U.S. has fought to avoid its jurisdiction.

[grasswire]

16. just like a video game, I guess...

.....lots of chatter about "smoking" the unarmed guy?

[MrSlayer]

28. I see it as mercy in that case.

A truck just blew up in his fucking face and he was wounded before that even happened. No one was going to save that guy, he would have just suffered for hours before he expired. It's hard and cruel this war thing but at the end of the day the insurgent or freedom fighter or whatever you want to call him is better off with a quick merciful death.

If you are going to be angry at anyone for this be angry at the cocksuckers who started this illegal war. The soldiers did what soldiers are supposed to do.

[SemperEadem]

67. The soldiers are not God--it's not up to them to determine who lives

and who dies. It was not a mercy killing--it was murder. He should be tried.

If it was your mother crawling on her hands and knees across the road and one of them put a bullet in her brain, I'm sure you wouldn't look so cavalierly upon it.

[jmags]

38. Thank you for being the voice of reason in this thread

That clip should make everyone angry, but not because our troops did what they did, but because of who put them into that situation in the first place. That clip should show everyone the cold, hard reality of war. It is not pretty, and everyone could see that there.

But how some of you can pull this self-righteous, second guessing, bullshit on our troops because of this clip is beyond me.
There have certainly been instances where US soldiers crossed the line and needed to be punished for it. This particular instance does not even come close to doing that.

[Jack_Dawson]

17. Just saw it

That was fucking unbelievable! It was spectacular IF those Iraqis were up to no good - and it clearly looked like they were up to no good. WOW that was craaaaazy.

[proud patriot]

19. Yep we just saw it out here on the west coast

:puke:

[darknemus]

21. Here's a link to the video (warning: graphic)

http://www.lunitixx.com/sharefoo/224Helicopter_Kills.mpeg

After watching that - dear god, that's sick.

Sorry, but the guy writhing next to the truck just makes me want to puke.

-darknemus

[Gin]

24. that link isnt working for me...any suggestions?

gin

[jayfish]

25. Try Right-Clicking On The Link, Then Clicking...

save as.

Jay

[MrSlayer]

26. Hmmm.......Nice edit.

They left out the part showing the guy with the RPG launcher and all of the radio transmissions before it in your clip. There is much more that happened before the shooting began. It looks like senseless butchery here when the full clip shows the big picture.

[HEyHEY]

35. has the whitehouse responded to this at all?

[California Democrat]

46. Benefit of the doubt....

Instead of assuming that these American pilots are some evil maniacs who get their jollies by mowing down random civilians in the street, why not try giving them the benefit of the doubt. This was a piece of video, not the whole thing. There was a reason those guys were targeted and it wasn't to steal their oil.

Our guys were calm and professional. The Apache pilots were protecting themselves and the American soldiers and local civilians that those guys were gonna car bomb tomorrow. You want to make a bet about the contents of those trucks? Ice cream? Air conditioners parts? I doubt it.

The big mistake the targeted guys made was assuming that they were safe in the dark. Apaches are good at reaching out and "touching" somebody at a distance - day or night.

These "insurgents" are big boys. They know what they're doing. If you are going to engage American fighting forces, the penalties can be unpleasant and they know it. Blame the bad guys, not our guys.

Our soldiers aren't monsters.

[RapidCreek]

51. how about the 10 to 15 thousand Iraqi civilians that were killed?

Guess they were all insurgents too eh? Amazing how 'good those Apaches are at reaching out and touching people' ain't it?




Here's some more real heroic shit

Like man them guys are dead now you know? But Its a good feeling and afterwords yer like hell yea that was awesome lets do it again

Yea a real fuckin genius this guy is....proud to have him representing my country to the world.

RC

[rumguy]

22. It's freaky to see life and death played out like that

I mean you are actually looking at these men's last seconds of life! Unforgettable!

[rumguy]

23. I listened to Willie's new song afterwards...the contrast

is stunning...makes ya wonder about and ponder the human species...and this ain't a knock at the pilots...but killing like that from afar, with high tech cannons and night vision equipment, it's just plain sad...even if the guys "deserved" it...

[TexasMexican]

27. I wasnt particularily bothered by this

[alcuno]

29. As my priest said last Sunday, "we have given in to the culture of death."

I wasn't that bothered by it either. Sad.

[HayekMan]

56. uuuhhhh... I think you misinterpreted you priest....

I think he was probably referring the the grudging acceptance of abortion in this nation....

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinrobot]

33. Hypocrites...

The media is all over it when they can show videos of Iraqis being blown to bits, pictures of Saddam's dead sons, videos of Iraqis being tortured by Saddam's minions.

Yet we're not allowed to see the coffins coming home, we can't see the funerals, can't talk to the brave Americans who've had their arms and legs blown off...

[Cat Atomic]

34. I just don't know.

Ever since Vietnam, we've been searching for new ways to kill while keeping our own casualty numbers as low as possible. That sounds like common sense, but in alot of ways, it isn't.

Perhaps those guys were insurgents, and perhaps the footage that wasn't shown proves as much. Perhaps it doesn't. Someone on foot would've known for sure.

And beyond that- the bigger problem with greater invulnerability- is that you can fight wars without nearly as much of a public outcry. If you can just send in some helicopter gunships and tear the shit out of everything and everybody within a certain radius, without losing any of your own troops in the process... the public back home isn't going to care. You cause more carnage, are probably less precise, and for all that, you get *less* of a public outcry because you aren't losing any of your own men.

I don't want to see our own guys getting hurt when it isn't necessary. At the same time, the availability of low risk warfare makes us more likely to engage in war.

[crimson333]

36. if

soldier's perceive a threat...they are to eliminate that threat. This clip doesn't show the whole story

[SidDithers]

44. Much like the Canadians bombed in Afghanistan?...

Shouldn't there be confirmation of a threat before acting? All too often the attitude seems to be shoot first and let God sort 'em out.

Sid

[California Democrat]

49. No comparison

It's my understanding that the American pilot was unaware of the Canadian soldiers in the area and he thought he observed ground fire coming from their area. Feeling that he was under attack, he dropped a dumb bomb before anyone made the connection. Somebody should have told him the friendlies were there and/or he should have asked. It was a horrible mistake that the pilot will have to live with for the rest of his life.

The Apache pilots, though, were hitting specific targets with pinpoint accuracy. There was a reason those three guys were hit and it wasn't because our American Imperialism. No mistakes. No errors in judgment.

War isn't pleasant to look at, but that doesn't make our guys criminals or cowards or any of the other things suggested in this thread.

[AromaticSocks]

39. Those poor insurgents

Maybe we should let them kill a few soldiers first? War is hell.

[FDRrocks]

41. Possible insurgence,,,,

Listen. The number of innocent Americans that have died in the Iraqi war are 0 unless you count the soldiers who were sent as tools to start the war.

The number of Iraqis defending thier country....about 9000.

Our soldiers are fighting an illegal war, I don't wish them death, I wish them departure.

[AromaticSocks]

43. So sorry you don't get it yet

We are right and those that kill innocents are wrong.

[not systems]

47. sucks...

being you...

I found that grim and disgusting.

You may want to consider the humanity of the
living and the dead in this little clip from
the records of mans inhumanity to man.

This is bad.

Period.

[RapidCreek]

52. so the Americans that murdered the 10,000 plus Iraqi civilians were...

wrong then? Do they deserve to be shot?

Tell you what chief...if some fucker from iraq came to my hometown and "accidently" blew up my kid...you can bet your sweet ass there'd be repercussions. If he'd prefer not to deal with them the best way to avoid my wrath would be to get the fuck back to Iraq.

RC
USN Vet

[Webster Green]

54. War IS hell...especially when it is illegal & unjustified....

You have posted that phrase on this board several times, as though saying "war is hell", somehow justifies anything that takes place during the conflict. This is an illegal war. Sure, the chimp blackmailed the Congress to support his actions in Iraq, but he did so by lying to them and to us. There are good reasons for nations to respect the rule of international law. Without laws, there would be chaos. We had no authority to invade Iraq, much less rounding up and killing all it's leaders. Your hero, the evil chimp, has set some very dangerous precedents with his unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation. Under these new rules, any nation that didn't like AWOL or his policies, would have a perfect right to attack the U.S., and terminate "dead enders" like yourself, who resisted the occupation. Before you are awarded your tombstone here at DU, you might want to post some statements to support your positions. "War is hell" really doesn't cut it.

[Webster Green]

61. Oops she got tombstoned..........

Pity!

[AromaticSocks]

45. I trust we did the right mission

If you threaten our troops you die. Simple and easy rules to follow.

[0rganism]

50. "we"? Who is this "we"? Were you up there pulling the trigger?

No, you weren't. Personally, I think you're another armchair quarterback, calling the shots from the safety of your living room, babbling your own self-righteousness on an internet forum. The soldiers, who themselves would much rather be elsewhere, did all the killing for you, and you got to see it in sanitized IR black&white without so much as a whiff of gunpowder.

Why not volunteer yourself for some duty in Iraq or Afghanistan, if you're so very sure that everything our tax money is buying there is on the level? Even if you're unfit for military service, there's plenty of opportunity for you to get a job with a Halliburton subsidiary, here's one from a couple months back:

http://www.webrecruiter.com/pls/kbr/maine.d?s=cAChbFgkEGXPoXFColGwZjjNCFUnMxQoOymfLQpuSlwSOjhOkLxsFXLfGXVo

"Employee should be deployed with a laptop and body armor."

Get the hence to the middle east, where your patriotism will be much appreciated by all "right thinking" people.

[RapidCreek]

53. 10 to 15 thousand Iraqi civilians that didn't threaten our troops have

been killed as well. Since you insist on the precision of our military forces one must assume these civilians were killed on purpose.

RC
USNVet

[HayekMan]

55. Good Job.....

Hell yes.. three fewer Iraqi terrorists to threaten and murder our men and women in the field. They did the right thing... The only thing I regret is that they had to waste two rounds on one piece of crap!

You people claim to support the troops, but the only thing that you really support is you left-wing socialist agenda.

God bless America

[Robbien]

57. The rabid right claims to be god loving christians

but they love the idea of slaughtering human beings. Such hypocrites.

[Jack_Dawson]

58. We killed RPG launchers

Before they killed us. War isn't pretty people but we did the right thing. Anyone who has seen the UNEDITED version of this video understands that.

[Robbien]

62. Anyone who posts that they value the bullets more than

humans is what made that post most objectionable.

I hate war and the cost of human life on both sides.

[jsw_81]

65. I've noticed that too

These allegedly "pro-life" right-wingers just love these kinds of videos. It's almost like porn for them. It would seem that the only kind of life that they care about is "life" in the womb.

[gulliver]

60. What's the left wing socialist agenda anyway?

I always wondered what it was. Do you have a site that explains what this is and why it is a bad thing? Maybe you haven't thought about what is actually happening to the country right now. Maybe you are afraid of something (left wing socialist agenda) that isn't that much of a threat while all the jobs leave the country and the environment is trashed under Bush. Maybe you are asleep at the wheel and are dreaming you are awake.

[Nexus7]

63. Whoa... hang on there a second...

Somebody wrote:
"It is war after all and as opposed to it as I am I still want our troops to win the battles. I don't want our people killed. Would you be happier if these guys shot down the chopper instead?"


War? What war? Isn't it common knowledge that the Iraqi army was defeted in Gulf War II? Wasn't it declared that the mision was accomplished?

This is a police action. This is the use of military force in a civil and police action. I'll leave it to your recollection what other nations employed and employed military mechanized means to kill those who are technically civilians.

[jsw_81]

64. It's tragic, and we shouldn't even be in Iraq, but...

This is what happens when you carry around what appears to be a shoulder-fired weapon while American helicopter pilots are watching. It's like pulling a gun on the police; if you're dumb enough to do it, you're going to get killed.

[adriennel]

66. I saw that

last night on the ABC nightly news. I was not expecting such violence despite warnings of graphic content ahead. I thought I was going to throw up and faint at the same time. I can't remember the exact word the military spokesman used, something to the effect that the weapons used were "overkill", but they were the smallest weapons available on the Apache. I don't know what to say about this...clearly I would be of no value in the military...I'm stunned and disgusted. Is this a typical act of warfare (after combat operations have officially ceased?) why did ABCNews run this clip?