Any more people pick up Paul O'Neills book ??

[cthrumatrix]

Or share with friends...how did they react?

[Rainbowreflect]

1. I got it & started reading it yesterday.

I am having a little problem getting passed the beginning where he talks about what great people Cheney and Bush Sr. are. :puke:

[RamboLiberal]

6. Skip past the beginning

There's nothing in the book we don't know - but it is nice to see someone who was on the inside confirm it.

There's a part of the book that I find especially weirdly disturbing. It's the weekend after 9-11 when they're holding meetings at Camp David (note Bushie couldn't stay away from his weekend binge even then). They're all sitting down to lunch and all * is concerned about is the great 'comfort food' of chicken noodle soup and homemade bread. He confides to O' Neills wife he can't wait for dinner cause they're having more 'comfort food'. A couple of thousand are buried at the WTC, the ruins are still smoldering there, at the Pentagon, and in a Pennsylvania field and he's obsessing on 'comfort food'.

And when O' Neill's wife asks him what comfort foods his mom made he makes some snide comment about her having freezer burn on her fingers.

[cthrumatrix]

9. The part where shrub doesn't ask questions was creepy...if he doesn't

ask his cabinet the tough questions about their thoughts...who does?

he's just a "puppet"...it's there in B&W

[dansolo]

18. I disagree - I liked the beginning

I had a fairly negative impression of O'Neill from the beginning, because I couldn't believe that anyone associated with this crew could be any good. But reading the beginning of the book, I am getting a conmpletely different impression of him. I now believe that a lot of time he was being forced to promote policies that he personally disagreed with. He seems to me a person who is sincere in his conservative beliefs, but is willing to discuss and arbitrate differences with people who disagree with him. I believe that he may have been the only person in this entire administration with a shred of integrity.

[Richardo]

20. I agree - conservative yes. But with integrity and intellectual honesty.

I can't help but respect that.

[Poiuyt]

43. Now we cheer for regular conservatives

I remember thinking how glad I was that Clinton beat Dole. Now how I wish it was Dole in office. At least he was an honorable man.

[Richardo]

27. Don't skip the beginning...it establishes O'Neill's credentials...

...as an independent thinker, Washington insider who knows how it's SUPPOSED to work, and as a (true) conservative (as opposed to the neocons) who is nothing like what the RoveCo machine is now trying to protray him as.

[Ilsa]

39. What a little shit!

I'd set him straight!

He and Pickles were the only two people in the US who managed to find something to laugh about the week of September 11, 2001. He is pathologically self-centered, a real narcissist.

He can't have a conversation with anyone without turning into a belittling shit. I can't wait until he gets his!

[emc]

41. best part

You missed the best part----about how dinner was going to be fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy----thats why his brain is mush---he mush and his brain is mush-----more mashed potatoes

[ET Awful]

2. Got it on Friday, been reading it off and on. . .

I'm a little over halfway through. Some interesting info about how the opinions of financial experts (such as O'Neill and even Greenspan) were ignored.

[MissB]

3. I read it this weekend

And I'm handing it off to my husband.

For the entire time that Bush has been in office, I've been amazed - it's like that Tom Tomorrow quote that someone posted the other day. Every few days, it seems like I'm turning to my husband and saying "you won't believe this".

Suskind's book made it all the more clear- this administration isn't making any sort of policy that isn't strictly political in nature. They are not weighing the ramifications of their policy. We should not be surprised by anything that they come up with.

I found the epilogue interesting as well- Suskind goes into O'Neill's comments about not being afraid to stand up to Bush. O'Neill talks about John DiIulio (former head of the Faith-based Initiative) and how he came out against the administration, then later back-tracked. O'Neill pointed out that he was old and rich.

[cthrumatrix]

4. agree..more people need to see this...we are being led by a puppet

[CityZen-X]

14. Corporate Butt-Puppet

with a wad of dead presidents shoved up his arse to hydrate the pine.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. i ordered it from amazon friday...5-10 day delivery....i can't wait!!!

i should have paid the extra and gotten it sooner but instead took the offer of 2 books for $36 with no shipping&handling charges....chose "the great unraveling"

[TheDalaiMama]

7. got it...read it ...liked it....easy read....and validated my opinion

on shrub and his interest level...(non existent puppet) been telling anyone who will listen to get the book.

dalai

[cthrumatrix]

8. plus John Dean has a book coming out in April....damaging to the puppet

[Richardo]

22. I'd read the phone book if John Dean wrote it...

...can't wait!

[greatauntoftriplets]

42. I ordered it from Amazon last Tuesday.

It arrived the next day -- even before the e-mail shipment confirmed notification.

I am amazed at how O'Neill could believe anything * said. Means I am smarter than he is, because I knew the usurper was lying all along.

[SickOfSpin]

10. Bought and read it this past week...

...and I had to stop reading a few times, put the book down, and come back later, the "revelations" made me so furious. It's not that I didn't already the truth to what is going on within this admin - but to hear the attitude, the hubris, the entitlement from an insider's perspective - well, it put a fire in my belly the likes of which I haven't had in a long time.

What's become even worse is the hatchet job the press is trying to do on O'Neil because of Suskind's book. My answer to them, as has been that of many other DU'ers is - READ the damn book! Of course they latched on to the Iraq business to try to smear him and "muddy the water". The most damning portions of the book, to me, were the revelations about the ideology driven budget decisions with no "honest broker" in place (in fact no policy discussion virtually AT ALL in WH), the obvious puppeteer/puppet relationship between Cheney/Rove and shrub, and the confirmation once and for all that the corporate interests and fundies are not just influencing government policy at this WH, satisfying them IS the government policy of this WH.

I've been lurking and reading here for well over a year, getting smarter on the issues. It's now time to kick some ass. Those bastards have GOT TO GO!

[Richardo]

24. Welcome to the world of DU posters, SOS...

Good point, well made. :thumbsup:

[SickOfSpin]

37. Thanks Ricardo

It's scary to post an opinion of any sort here the first time! Your kinds words are appreciated.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi SickOfSpin!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[SickOfSpin]

33. Why thank you!

NY99, you're always there encouraging folks. Thanks...

[kath]

30. Welcome, SickOfSpin!!

This sure is a good place to get "smarter on the issues". The whorish mainstream media only makes people dumber.

[SickOfSpin]

34. Thank you!

Hello back. No better place to learn than DU - brilliant minds gather here, that's for sure.

[Khephra]

11. I've ordered it

I'm busy working my way through Frum and Perle's book right now.

[radfringe]

12. ordered it this morning

and my partner wants me to "highlight" the good parts for her

[laruemtt]

13. got it friday too

along with dude where's my country. am into "dude" now and then will start the price of loyalty. thanks for the ok to skip over the beginning....

[cthrumatrix]

15. I'm not sure on that...it shows his credibility...O'Neill is a real deal

he's not a journalist or democrat wanting shrub...this guy has an excellent reputation...the media doesn't want you to know that.

[alfredo]

16. the last two chapters in 'Dude" need to be taken to heart.

I am reading Chomsky's "Hegemony or Survival", When finished there i will go on to the Susskind book.

[laruemtt]

26. i will oftentimes "cheat"

and look through the ending chapters and i've gotta say i like his points EXCEPT the one about animals not having rights like humans. i generally believe animals deserve MORE rights than humans because they haven't f&cked the planet up like we have. and most are much more lovable than a lot of bipods. :-)

[many a good man]

17. Just finished Chapter 2

O'Neill and Greenspan had "secret" agreements to tie tax cuts to the surplus and overhaul corporate governance. These two guys sound like decent conservatives who wouldn't be too much out of place in a Dem administration. They wanted to lower the threshold of CEO criminal liability from direct responsibility only to general responsibility for what goes on across the corporation. Bush* cronies shot that one down real fast.

Defense policy from day one was exactly the PNAC plan. Soviet Union gone, freer global trade, all countries with higher technology leads to pockets of "asymmetric" threats to American power. They believe US has the right to deploy and project military force anywhere on the planet without opposition. Iraq was to be demonstration case of US disallowing asymmetric threat from WMD.

Its ironic that we picked Iraq as the showcase of how we won't allow anyone to have WMD, and it turns out they didn't even have WMD.

O'Neill is shocked at this strategy because he doesn't see how we can expect to deny technology transfer to the third world. In my mind it ties directly to Kevin Phillip's book on the Bush dynasty. Corporations make out like bandits: first they sell this technology to foreign countries; then the US goes in and blows them up; corporations restock the US arsenal; corporations sell the technology to the same foreign country again; US blows it up again, etc. What a wonderful business plan!

[cthrumatrix]

21. so true....I liked O'Neill at the helm sticking up for Americans

throughout the entire book...read on Africa and social security...he was right...he tried

and shrub wanted votes and cuts for the rich while bankrupting our country for a needless war

[Richardo]

19. Am halfway through it. Most chilling * quote so far:

"I don't debate with myself" :scared:

Translation: "My first thought is ALWAYS correct."

O'Neill points out that "debating yourself" is what most people call "analysis".

This is an extremely readable and obviously accurate account of the politics-driven White House. Chilling. Infuriating. and motivating.

[cthrumatrix]

23. I took it as "he didn't have an idea that was his"...he was told what to

do and never detoured from facts, common sennse, discussion etc... he's a puppet...not a leader.

[Richardo]

25. Agree: I'd say Bush's "myself" is like the inverse of the royal "we"...

..it means "what those guys told me I think".

[Richardo]

28. Biggest surprise so far: Christie Whitman's relatively "moderate"

...beginnings at EPA. Had NO idea she was ever anywhere near that moderate, based on her later environmentally disaterous moves.

[Nashyra]

31. I'm going to read it on my way to NH

I'll sit in first class and prop it up so all can see it when they are boarding. I can only afford f/c because I work for the airline, or else I would be in coach.

[cthrumatrix]

32. it was a surprise...I blam it on lack of direction from Shrub...he never

told her where he stood ...and organized support based on campaign promises...(more lies of course)

[DebJ]

35. not sure after reading the book what was 'her' moves and what was just

Bush's decision she was to read (if Bush makes any decisions at all)

[kskiska]

36. I'm halfway through

I'm up to where O'Neill figured out that Cheney quashed everything that O'Neill and Whitman proposed, and that even though O'Neill had worked with Cheney before, and thought he knew him well found himself asking, "Who is Dick, really?" It was so creepy. He's also wondering whether he, Christie, and Colin are just there as cover.

[Richardo]

38. Just passed that part too - I never thought I'd say this, but...

...I want to read Whitman's book, if there ever is one.

No, make that I'd want to read her NOTES, because who knows how much the book will be watered down after this...

[RamboLiberal]

40. I wish I had a $150 to pony up to see O' Neill/Suskind

They're doing a dinner talk in Pittsburgh next month for ovarian cancer charity in Gilda Radner's name. But with this being an election year, I'm saving my $$$ to donate to Dem candidates.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

44. Finished this.

Even though the typically shallow media firestorm concentrated on the evidence of premeditation on Iraq and the "blind man in a room full of deaf people" comment, I think the real value of the book is way beyond this, in showing the process (or lack thereof) in decision making in the Bush White House. How there is really no concern for facts and analysis and how it's really all about satisfying the $ base $.

O'Neill's value is this:

1) He was an insider with a high position
2) He did and does have a rep for integrity
3) He served in other Republican administrations and hence can contrast the lack of professionalism in this one.

Even though Nixon was an extremely flawed and amoral person, O'Neill's account shows there was an actual policy apparatus there and an vigorous effort (as in most administrations) to analyze the best course of action in things. In fact he describes Nixon as being very dilligent in studying the various complex reports submitted to him by his cabinet and a quick study subsequently able to hold his own against everyone in the room once he had studied the issue. This is completely lacking in Bushco and there is no search for the facts, just prejudice (no emission regs no matter what, tax cuts will happen no matter what, war in Iraq will happen no matter what).

This picture painted is very valuable because many will cheer for stupid Iraq war or mindless tax cut no matter what. But the rudderless ship depicted should concern anyone.

The question arises why did he do this (come forward). It's clear it's not money (the guy is worth tens of millions). He's old enough that his working career is mostly done (and definitely done after this). It could be sour grapes for being fired/humiliated but he does not come across as that kind of guy. I really think he is anguished about the course of the country under this administration and wanted everyone to know. In the last chapter he does comment to the author that he's "old and rich", career done, and basically that they can't hurt him. This was in discussing the backtracking by the only other insider to narc out the administration, the guy in my signature line, younger with a family and most of his career ahead. Well obviously they did have some way of hurting him. I can picture the Rove/Cheney conference call the day after 60 Minutes:

"You have relatives in the old country, yes?"

The book is an important read. I can't say as I like the author's writing style (like a novel with O'Neill as the main character), but it is important. The word is getting out.

[Richardo]

45. Well said, Mayberry (and welcome to DU)

I'm about 2/3rds through and I must say I like Suskind's writing style - very clear (especially about arcane Treasury and economic issues) and readable. The reader takes away the important points without even really trying (see most of the posts in this thread).

Suskind puts me in mind of Woodward and Bernstein's "All the President's Men": another extremely important work that deftly explained a very complicated and convoluted scandal so that the reader could grasp the significance.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[leesa]

46. I think it's good. Easy to read. I think what has most impressed,

or I should say appalled me, is the simplistic mentality of the conversations and meetings. Really rather childish. Also, the blind obediance to a President, hope it's not always that way. I was surprised that O'Neill seemed to know absolutely nothing about Bush yet I imagine he voted for the man.
O'Neill comes off sounding great, but then he's the hero of the book, so I'm not sure how much significance to place on it.