The pads mean David Kelly was murdered

[Must_B_Free]

The cardiogram pads he was wearing blow the suicide theory out of the water.

He had a CV problem. He used the pads recently and probably left them on so he didn't have to put new ones on all the time, he could just hook up and go.

At any rate, it indicares a concern for his health; this contradicts characteristics of a man who wants to die.

The killer didn't know about the pads - he didn't undress the man.

Dead men tell no tales, but the EEG pads do...

[Maple]

1. That is a strenge

twist to it all, that's for sure.

And if he wanted to kill himself, why not do it that way with the pads rather than die slowly on the ground in a damp cool woods?

Mind you, I still don't buy any wrist-slashing here, but this really throws a wrench into what they figured was a nice neat package.

[sasquatch]

2. I knew this was fishy from the begining

It was all too convienient for Blair that this poor Bastard who knew the inteligence was fake just happened to die all of a sudden. The next question is who was it that killed him?

The Bush Crime Family?

The Carlyle Group?

PNAC?

One of Tony Blairs goons?

Which one of these ordered the hit or was it all of them?

[Pastiche423]

3. In the Guardian article

it states:

"Dr Hunt also described how four electro-cardiogram pads were found on Dr Kelly's chest, two on the upper torso and two in the lower chest area."

http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqdossieraffair/story/0,13754,1010691,00.html

Dr. Hunt is the pathologist, not his own doctor, btw. Wouldn't it make more sense to question his own doctor?

[CarlBallard]

4. Or

he just put them in before he decided to kill himself and didn't take them out to commit suicide. Do I know for certain he wasn't killed? No. But people kill themselves all the time and it's always tragic. And the fact that was a suicide doesn't absolve the people who pushed him to it.

The more we talk about oh he was murdered, and the crazier it sounds, the easier it is for the Blair government and others who acted like asses and pushed him to suicide to just dismiss his critics as a buncy of loonies.

[Maple]

5. Not in an English court he won't

.

[aquart]

13. Aww, you believe the single bullet theory.

I am so fucking sick of not telling what we absolutely believe because the big boys will make fun of us. Kick 'em in the groin, honey. See how much they laugh.

MAYBE it was suicide. But if it was, there are a TON of unanswered questions. And multitudinous contradictions.

I'm willing to be convinced. So far they have not tried.

I don't know about the British, but this nation watches CSI.

They found the pills at the scene? How did he wash them down? How many did he take? How long before death did he take them? Was there anything else in his stomach?

Why didn't his wrist clot? Were there hesitation cuts? What was the position of the body? How was the blood pooled in relation to the body?

What kind of knife did he use? Did he bring it specially or was it one he always carried? Sharp or dull?

He had a family and left NO word for them? But he had been looking forward to his daughter's wedding? He ruined his daughter's happiest time and LEFT NO NOTE?

I don't give a Republican's flatulent ass whether I get called kooky. They haven't convinced me.

And I didn't buy their meadow muffin sale on WMD either. That's how nutty I am.

[maine_raptor]

6. WOW

That is one hellva reach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pads = Murder.......... Hey I believe in the Grassy Knoll and all that, but right now, with limited info, the equation does not compute.

[Must_B_Free]

7. OK lets list the possible meanings of the pads

1.

[Tinoire]

8. How long were those pads on there is my question ?

I haven't been paying close enough attention to the story since the pad thing came up so if someone knows, please answer w/ reference.

I've read that assassination teams have been known to perform an EKG on their victims to ensure they were dead. Did they maybe haul ass and/or forget to remove these pads? I honestly don't know.

And not being medically knowledgeable, I have another question- could these pads have been in any way used to administer unneccessary shock to the heart thus killing someone off? I mean what's to prove they were used to monitor as opposed to transmitting?

Anyone know? And yes, I do have a vivid imagination but it came in very handy in a past job where I was well rewarded for being able to see/analyze things others missed. But I don't have the knowledge for or the time to research this one. I could be so totally off and would appreciate your help.

Thanks

[Pastiche423]

9. Normally the sticky pads

are kept attached to the body for a 24 hour testing period if one were wearing a Holter monitor. There is another type of monitor called an Event monitor that is worn for 30 days. The person that could answer your question on how long they were in place, would be his doctor.

AFAIK, his doctor has not been questioned. Either that, or the doc's information has not been released.

The pads, themselves, could not be used to administer shock. They are plastic circles w/a strong adhesive on one side and a tiny metal valley where the wires attach on the other side.

When I worn a Holter monitor several times, years ago, the pads were removed by my cardiologist after the 24 hour period. Having no hair on my chest, the removal was painless. But it would have to smart anyone that had hair on their chest.

I hope more information is brought to light. I can't twist my mind around why someone that was suicidal would care enough about his/her ticker to have the test done.

Our world keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.

[Tinoire]

10. Thank you Pastiche for that clear, easy answer! n/t

[Must_B_Free]

11. Yes

but for fun, we can imagine possible scenarios where it was not suicide.

1. the urge to kill himself came on quickly, so while he did care about his healh, he suddenly decided to kill himself

2. he heard some news that caused himself to want to do himself in quickly. really this is the same as #1

[aquart]

15. Quickly, you jump off a bridge or a balcony.

Quickly, you stand in front of a train.

Slowly, you take anywhere from a couple to a handful of painkillers and then remove your watch (to get access to the wrist and maybe so you can sit and see how long it takes to bleed to death), pull out a knife and cut a nice vein or artery. Then find someplace comfy to drip into oblivion.

In which case, I hope he brought a book or the Times crossword puzzle.

Why didn't he clot?

[Character Assassin]

12. Wow. What crap.

The cardiogram pads he was wearing blow the suicide theory out of the water.

No.

What they mean is is that his corpse was discovered with them on his chest.

That's it.

He used the pads recently and probably left them on so he didn't have to put new ones on all the time, he could just hook up and go.

Got medical knowledge?

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. some info

A Holter monitor is a portable electrocardiogram (EKG) that monitors the electrical activity of an ambulatory (freely moving) patient’s heart for one to five days, 24 hours around the clock. It is most often used when the physician suspects an abnormal heart rhythm (arrhythmia) or that the patient is experiencing times when the heart is not getting enough oxygen-rich blood (cardiac ischemia).

*snip*

How is a Holter monitor test done?

As with the in-office EKG, this is a painless test in which wires (electrodes) connected to the Holter monitor are taped to thoroughly cleansed areas on the patient’s skin. Once the electrodes are firmly in place, patients are instructed on monitor use and then sent home to go about their usual daily activities. The only activities that must be avoided are the following:
Bathing or showering
Going near high-voltage areas, metal detectors or large magnets
Having any contact with an electric blanket

http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/common/articles.cfm?Artid=21&startpage=2


*snip

What tests may be ordered after a Holter monitor?

Additional tests that may be ordered after the Holter monitor results have been analyzed include the following:

Echocardiogram, Electrophysiology study , Exercise stress test.

[Character Assassin]

16. I am aware of the characteristics, thanks.

This falls directly into my old (and now, new again) line of work.

The claims the original poster made are untenable.

I said what I said for a reason, and can back it up.

But thank you for supplying the board with something quite pertinent to the current procedings.

I neglected to do so and am remiss for it.

[Pepperbelly]

17. I am unsure of the import of this ...

but trying to ascertain state of mind is very tricky business. Once I worked a suicide ... it was a prison guard ... he went to work that morning, got an assignment in a guard tower, drank a mountain dew and ate a bag of chips and then BANG ...

Go figure.

Folks would figure that eating/drinking would be the last thing on someone's mind before shooting themself but this is what the guy did. When someone is suicidal, definitionally, they are usually in a distraught state of mind but people do the damndest things.

:shrug:

[Character Assassin]

19. You speak the truth

But there are so many people happily willing to enter into flights of fancy here that I can't believe I forgot about it in my time off.

[Pepperbelly]

20. He could well have been murdered but ...

if so, it was done very slickly. I would like to get a look at the autopsy report, the tests done on his hands to see if he'd fired a gun (although that doesn't prove one way or the other but certainly is a useful nugget of information), wound location, handedness, ammunition type (remember how odd the ammo was in the case of the Enron exec who was suicided in Texas). The gross examination of the body is what I'd really like to read as well as the toxicology.

These pads are little nuggets of info as well although certainly not compelling. Just something else to keep in mind in the context of the rest of the evidence.

Absent some pretty severe depression though, his actions do not seem to those of someone contemplating suicide.

But, like I said, people do some pretty damned strange things when contemplating suicide. If he was murdered, I hope they catch the bastards. If he suicided, I hope he found peace.

[chomskyite2]

18. wow, you must know a lot about heart cardiogramns?

are you also an expert on small plane trajectorys?

[Ouabache]

21. He cut just ONE wrist?

I read somewhere that only one wrist was cut. Don't people who commit suicide by cutting their wristS, cut their wristS. And usually in a tub of hot water to make the blood come out better?

[Pepperbelly]

22. was it slashed wrists?

I have not kept up with this the way I should.