Joe Lieberman bashes Howard Dean on "Late Edition"

[Composed Thinker]

Do you think this strategy of Lieberman presenting himself as a more moderate Democrat will work?

[tjdee]

1. Can you be a bit more specific?

I'm sure this will turn into a "Holy" Joe pile-on, but I'd just like to know what exactly he said.

[Composed Thinker]

2. He said or implied

That Dean and some of the other candidates were taking the party too far to the left, into the "wilderness," and would make us like we were from 1972-1992. He implied that Howard Dean was the next George McGovern.

[poskonig]

4. We had the House AND Senate during the "wilderness"

I rest in my case.

[Composed Thinker]

6. Well

He meant that the Democrats were seen as a party that was weak on defense and stuff like that. I don't how accurate that is, but he seemed to really believe it.

[NashVegas]

20. And We Had Leaders

O'Neil
Moynihan
Kennedy


Great LIBERAL Northeasterners.

[jos]

38. Exactly

He's mouthing the DLC line. Lieberman is a puppet sitting on Al From's lap.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

13. Lieberman is wrong, Dean is driving the party to the extreme right

On economic issues, Dean is a right-winger beyond even Kerry. Dean's whole national political career has been built on pro-corporate trade agreements, since his early days fronting for NAFTA to state governments. Dean's political opportunism is highlighted by his re-labeling his "free trade" NAFTA support into "fair trade" NAFTA support - all rhetoric, no substance.

Dean's campaign has brought in a number of people who think that Dean's recent anti-war speeches represent something new in the Democratic party, instead of this slightly risky political PR job that it is.

Dean's campaign has had the effect co-opting what could have been an anti-DLC, anti-corporate, pro-liberal movement in the Democratic party into helping nominte yet another typical wealthy, elitist pro-corporate candidate that will almost surely lose big against Bush.

Rove is laughing all the way to the bank.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. such an insightful response

well, obviously, no

[ibegurpard]

34. The tripe you post dealing with Dean

deserves the responses it gets.

[tjdee]

16. Kerry a right winger! BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Only at DU, I swear.

Kerry a right winger. Geez.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. support for corporate rights

is right wing, and Kerry has been there the whole time, promoting corporate rights.

[blm]

29. Prove it using his record.

I see his record shows he voted with labor OVER corporations 91% of the time.

He has the BEST voting record on the wnvironment of ANY Dem candidate EVER, choosing environmental protection OVER the interest of corporations.

He promoted legislation that favored small businesses OVER the interests of corporations.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. NAFTA, GATT, WTO, CAFTA? FTAA?

Kerry's record is pretty clear. On the issues on corporate power, he supports the corporations. He is not a conservative, he is a liberal - that's true, I'm not saying he isn't.

[blm]

41. He's balanced between fair trade

and pro labor, pro environment, and pro small business. The corporations were AGAINST Kyoto. Kerry thinks you can have BOTH, successful business growth WITH international minimum wage, labor protections, AND environmental protections. And I believe he is right.

[unfrigginreal]

46. Why was he WRONG on all the war votes?

Including '98 when there wasn't a vote but he wanted Clinton to go to war. He's a politician of the purest sense.

[jfkennedy]

23. I agree

His anti-war message was powerful. But he cracked he decided to not become a true blue liberal. He never defected to the far left which I was hoping he would do. He took the bait of the Bush campaign, that is that he is the all powerful Democrat that can beat Bush in 2004. The Republicans even put out a few magazine articles saying he is the greatest thing for democrats since Kennedy, but the realty is
he his more conservative then Bush. I'm sure the Republican strategy planners are laughing saying that was the easiest con we ever planned.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. Bush's corporate backers will be just as happy with Dean

Dean has publically promoted their agenda of moving US jobs offshore to low wage countries. The fact that the corporate media is starting to promote Dean should make it obvious which side he's on.

It's too bad, but there are some very politically naive Democrats.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Dean has spoken often of fair trade policies!

Text Prepared for Presentation by
Governor Howard Dean
July 30, 2003
Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 33
Des Moines, Iowa

We must re-examine our trade policies. In an era of globalization, multi-national corporations chase the lowest wages and the most permissive regulations. Fair trade is good for America and the world, but the playing field needs to be level. We can’t allow some countries to subsidize exports, manipulate their currencies, or erect barriers to imports from the United States.

We need to remember that the purpose of trade must be to improve the standard of living for us as well as our partners. Trade can only build strong and stable societies in developing countries if it is conducted under clear rules that are continually improved. Solid labor standards in our trade agreements are essential if we are to help create a strong middle class in the developing countries and creating strong middle classes in developing countries should be an essential goal of our trade policy. Middle class economies create the basis for strong democracies and for strong demand for U.S. goods and services.

Those who deny that problems exist in our trading system are not helping the cause of trade. When I am President, I will insist that every new trade agreement include strict and enforceable labor and environmental provisions.

As for existing agreements, I will not hesitate to renegotiate provisions that can be improved for the benefit of both working Americans and our trading partners. I will make sure the interests of working Americans are represented at the negotiating table by giving labor a role on the advisory teams. We have to protect middle class jobs in the United States with the same enthusiasm and vigor that we apply to protecting intellectual property rights, capital, and the interests of investors.

I am running for President because we can do better. We need to do better. The American people deserve a better deal.

Our country is built on the notion that we are all in this together. We are a community. We share in our prosperity and we take care of each other when times get tough. We must not lose that precious gift. We cannot allow a widening gap between the richest and the poorest among us.

I am tired of seeing a nation divided whether by race, or gender, or sexual orientation or economic status. We need a government that works with the people and for the people that unites us in a common vision for the common good.

I know we can do better. You have the power to make it happen. You have the power in your hands to take back our country and bring about a better deal for all Americans.

I need your help. I ask for your help. Let’s work together to build a better nation, where work is honored and rewarded; where people are united in a common cause and dreams are matched to opportunities.

Let’s take back America and take our country forward!

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_speech_economy_morejobsforamerica

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

33. THANK YOU for proving my point

Just read the very first paragraph, and then read the pro-NAFTA rhetoric from 1994 - I remember it - and tell me - IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE?

"We can’t allow some countries to subsidize exports, manipulate their currencies, or erect barriers to imports from the United States. "

This opinion is printed on FREEREPUBLIC daily. It's the same right-wing voodoo economics behind the WTO.

[IndianaGreen]

42. You read Free Republic??????? And you believe the Freepers!!!???

WhoCountsTheVotes: This opinion is printed on FREEREPUBLIC daily. It's the same right-wing voodoo economics behind the WTO.

If you believe the crap that is posted in Frei Republik, then you are as lost in ignorance as they are!

[John_H]

49. Ah yes, the ol' two-percenter "endorsement"

When a two-percenter calls you a right winger, you're just about where you want to be to have a good shot at winning an election by getting a lot of liberal and left/center votes. OOugt to be music o Kerry's and Dean's ears...

[Terwilliger]

15. sooooooooounds famillllllllliar

I've definitely heard it all before

[w13rd0]

21. That just proves that Joe is WAY too far to the right...

...and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Go away holy joe...

[last_texas_dem]

31. Funny...

I haven't decided which candidate I support; I like all of them more than Shrub, obviously. I think Dennis Kucinich is most in line with my views, but just don't believe he could beat Chimpy should he get the nomination...

I do admit to thinking that Howard Dean would make a better candidate than Joe Lieberman. However, I don't understand who either of the candidates are trying to promote themselves. Lieberman, who honestly has a nice, liberal voting record seems to be TRYING to pass himself off as "Bush-lite." (I don't believe he truly is "Bush-lite" but find his tactics really disappointing, and a major turnoff in terms of ever supporting him.) Dean, on the other hand, seems to be trying to pass himself off as more liberal than he really is, and the media and the other candidates seem to be playing right off of this theme- which I don't really understand. I wasn't alive when he was a candidate but I have a lot of respect for George McGovern, and neither Lieberman nor Dean come across as very similar to McGovern in terms of both his progressive politics or his integrity. I also think both Dean and Lieberman would do *better* (in terms of Electoral/popular vote) than McGovern should either of them get the nomination. This rhetoric on Lieberman's part is disgusting as he's bashing George McGovern, who seems to be one of the best men we've ever had run for President and also incorrectly labeling the moderate Dean as some sort of committed liberal Democrat.

[Eloriel]

37. Dean has never promoted himself as other than what he is:

fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

Unfortunately, the press, who've misunderstood a LOT about him, keep insisting on calling him liberal in some cases, though they seem to be waking up a bit.

Too, his anti-IRAQ-war stance got him labeled liberal; perhaps also the fact that a lot of us liberals flocked to him (knowing all the while he's NOT a liberal, thank you very much) tended to throw the press off.

But the people are not deceived. We've seen him speak; we've looked at his issues; we've read the legions of press accounts that only prove (so far) that they simply don't "get it" about the Dean campaign.

But WE get it, and that's all that counts in the final analysis. Thankfully, there is some indication that the press are starting to look just a little more closely at this amazing candidate and his amazing campaign, and are beginning to see beyond their outdated pre-conceived notions. And won't that be a lovely development? The press finally meeting up with Reality.

Eloriel

[Birthmark]

3. I just sent Joe an email...

...encouraging him to drop out of the race. I don't expect he'll take my advice...yet. ;)

[Composed Thinker]

5. LOL

[Fixated]

8. ...

Dean needs to present himself as a more centrist candidate; everyone is bashing him for being the lefist that he isn't.

[Demobrat]

17. Dean needs to present himself as exactly who he is

and ignore the likes of Lieberman. He's running against George, not Joe.

[AmyStrange]

27. Dean already does represent himself that way...

in every interview I have ever read, it's almost always the first thing Dean says. That he wasn't that liberal and he wasn't anti-war. He was just anti-this-war.

It's the media that keeps pushing the liberal crap.

I apologize to liberals. I don't mean that being a liberal is crap, but the way the media uses it as though it's a bad thing. grrrrrrrrr






Dave (AmyStrange.com)
http://www.SeattleActivist.org/MyLifeStory.html
DU (slang/ folklore) Glossary (Dictionary): http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/
Index of WMD Articles: http://WMD.SeattleActivist.org/

Here are some excellent resources and timelines of quotes and interviews and newspaper article quotes documenting the different things Bush and Co did and said for the last two plus years concerning the war in Iraq and WMDs (and other fun things) from the Howard Dean Website---even if you're not a Dean Fan, these are still excellent resources:

The Bush Administration And WMDs: Then And Now:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=bush_wmd_summary

Niger-Uranium Timeline:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=niger_timeline

Bush and WMD: Assumptions vs. Reality:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/TikTok_-_Bush_-_Iraq_-_Side_by_Side.pdf?docID=781

The Bush Administration and WMD: What did they know and when did they know it?:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/TikTok_-_Administration_-_Iraq_Deception.pdf?docID=762

[mjb4]

7. lieberman if nominated is the next dukakis

I hate the guy...he is not my choice and if nominated I won't be voting -- LEE ALCORN WAS RIGHT. what a difference a few years makes. NAACP was taking up for Lieberman and this past year told him not to expect our vote if he could not talk to us.

[union_maid]

9. The talking heads don't seem to agree

Watching the Sunday AM shows, Dean was all the talk and it seemed like a lot of media types seemed to think that having someone who was differentiating himself from the Republicans in a clear way was a way to go. As one of them said, "There's a lot of room to the left of Bush." No one seemed to think that Dean was a wild eyed leftist radical.

[maggrwaggr]

10. it'll "work" to get him sent into oblivion

I'm starting to hate Loserman almost as much as Bush.

With friends like these .....

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Christian73]

12. Well said.

n/t

[DavidNY]

22. The move-to-Israel part is even more uncalled for...

than the move-to-the-Republican-party part. Just because he very openly practices a particular religion, doesn't make it right to effectively accuse him of being a disloyal American who should emigrate. That suggestion is inconsistent with the spirit of religious liberty embodied in the First Amendment and comes perilously close to straightforward antisemitism. (I'm not trying to cast any personal aspersions on you, that's just how the comment reads to me and I recognize that the "vibe" it gave off to me may have been totally unintentional on your part.)

And while I'm no great Lieberman fan - I don't find sanctimony particularly appealing - if you look at his voting record on issues other than foreign policy it's actually fairly liberal, certainly much more so than the archetypical Southern DINOs like Zell Miller or even the more moderate Southern Dems. So Lieberman's very much a Democrat unless you totally rule out the possibility of Scoop Jackson / JFK-style hawkish Democrats, which strikes me as silly. His environmental record is particularly impressive (League of Conservation Voters rating of 88, where the Democratic Senate average is 72 and the Republican Senate average is 13).

[IndianaGreen]

24. I agree, Lieberman should move to Baghdad

and get a first hand taste of the misery his vote for this criminal war brought to the people of Iraq.

[Lurking Dem]

40. How about if ALL American Jews

move to Israel!

I mean, obviously our sympathies are to Israel first and America second. Right?

:grr:

[mandyky]

32. Loserman is in Dean-ial

Along with the rest of the DLC and most of the party machinery! But the People have the Power - Howard (In your face) Dean!!

[DagmarK]

36. Composed Thinker: you sure do ask a lot of questions.......

That seems to dominate your posts on DU.

Not that there is anything wrong with that......but it's just very unique on DU.

At least you stay and respond to various posts and stuff.

But are you like a natural born pollster or something?

so curious......

[Composed Thinker]

43. No

I've fallen out of step with some things, so I like to ask questions so I can try and bring myself up to date.

[killbotfactory]

39. No.

You don't win the dem primary by pissing off the democratic base in favor of swing voters. It's a losing strategy.

[GCP]

44. Being bashed by Lieberman is like being savaged by a dead sheep

(Plagiarized from the great British pol, Dennis Healey).

[whoYaCallinAlib]

45. I do. If a candidate doesn't appeal to we mods, he won't do

well against Bush.

[unfrigginreal]

47. Do you think that your strategy for reelecting Bush is working?

I think not!

[w4rma]

48. Gov. Dean's response to Joe Lieberman

...
Meanwhile, Dean struck back at a primary rival, Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, who warned on Friday that Dean’s opposition to the war in Iraq and his push for complete repeal of the Bush tax cuts could be a “ticket to nowhere’’ for Democrats on Election Day 2004.

“I disagree with Joe,” Dean said. “He’s served this country well, but he’s been on the wrong side of a lot of issues and I simply disagree with his assessment. I think my policies are a ticket to the White House.’’
...
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=377&ArticleID=85948
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=11856&mesg_id=11856

[carrowsboy]

50. Lieberman

...will never receive my vote. He got it once but that was beacuse he was attached to Gore.

After that day he compared Bush to Noah "leeding the flocks to the arc," I swore if he got the nomination then i would either vote Independent or sit out completely.

[The Zanti Regent]

51. NO!

I don't need GOP Lite Joe