Free Elections and Democracy: Elsewhere

[noiretextatique]

Does America have any credibility re: posturing about free elections and democracy some place else, given our own "issues" regarding elections and democracy at home?

[ithacan]

1. everyone I know abroad rolls their eyes

when Americans start lecturing them on democracy...

What Bush and his thugs did in Florida has become, for the rest of the world, the essence of US democracy now.

[noiretextatique]

3. everyone i know too, ithacan

i wanted to start a discussion for all those arguing for regime change...elsewhere.

[Djinn]

6. Even without the BFEE coup

a lot of people find the US lecturing about democracy irksome - the fact that certain President's have been elected by only the majority of the 30% of the country that bothers voting, the fact that you have first past the post voting which effectively blocks small party representatives getting elected, the massive gap between rich and poor, the disparity in educational oppurtunities and the corporate domination of government leads many outside the US to wonder just how democratic it really is. There also seems to be a slight assumption (admittedly mainly amongst freepy types) that you're the ONLY democracy in the world.

[noiretextatique]

7. excellent points...i find it irksome

that so many americans, and not just freepy types, believe that we are the beginning and end of demoracy...and because of that MYTH: we have some especial authority to dictate what is and is not democracy to the rest of the world.

[iverglas]

16. exactly

The eye-rolling outside US borders really has very little to do with Bush's presidency, and was common long before that.

We just can't believe that anyone could be so ignorant as to actually think that others are not free/democratic, and so arrogant as to think that their own brand of freedom/democracy is the yardstick by which others' is to be measured.

The unfortunate thing is that this isn't just common among "freepy types", and is seen at DU itself on pretty much a daily basis.

.

[noiretextatique]

2. iraq, venezula, zimbabwe, haiti

where are all the folks arguing for regime change somewhere else?

[noiretextatique]

4. to all those supporting regime changes...elsewhere

i would love to hear from YOU.

[noiretextatique]

5. where are all those people arguing for regime change

elsewhere?

[proud patriot]

8. Hell no

Hi noiretblu :hi:

[noiretextatique]

9. hi there, proud patriot

hell NO is the correct answer :hi:

[proud patriot]

10. Will you be attending next week ?

in SF .. :D

[noiretextatique]

12. YES...and i am offering to host

the afterparty at my new apartment in oakland. i will post something later.

[proud patriot]

19. Very cool

:thumbsup: Keep me posted

[AP]

11. Liberals should always be lecturing the fascists. However, the fascits

in the US need to shut the fuck up and stop lecturing the anti-neoliberals abroad with hypocritical arguments meant only to covertly defend wealth, and which have NOTHING to do with defending democracy.

[noiretextatique]

13. the two are often confused

expecially when it's "elsewhere." and while i do think good people have an obligation to speak out against injustice anywhere, i find it troubling that some of our comrades swallow our government/cultural propoganda about other countries as gospel, given our unresolved issues at home.

[AP]

14. I'm pretty sure that there aren't many at DU swallowing it anymore.

But there are a few who are really trying to force feed it to people who know better than to believe it.

I think this same phenomenon will be replicated wide scale when we start having this same debate outside DU.

[noiretextatique]

15. thanks...i needed that

and i see none of them have posted here. perhaps they don't like my options :7

[ithacan]

17. i think you're wrong

I think most liberals buy into the "US spreading the wonders of democracy around the world" line, including many here at DU (present company excluded of course...)

I know that the National Endowment for Democracy, the US agency that funds all of this so-called "democracy assistance", has bipartisan support in Washington.

And for some reason, so many americans need to feel like they have something to teach the rest of the world...

That's why all these media stories on how the wonderful US troops are helping those poor, benighted Iraqis pull themselves out of their miserable culture and history are so widespread in the media.

And of course if they don't do what "we" want them to do, we can blame "them", for being ungrateful, for having inferior culture, etc.

[ithacan]

18. for example see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1232177

[noiretextatique]

20. kick

[noiretextatique]

21. kick