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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:31 PM
Original message
Weak Kerry presidency.
Here is a thought.
If Kerry has a weak presidency, we could see TWELVE more years of Republican control.
Carter came between Nixon and Reagan. Then Bush 1.
Not much to look forward too, is it?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I see sowing the doubts of Kerry has begun.
This is the ??? negative thread today???
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Cleita
Not really.
Kerry gets a Republican house and senate. How much can he do?
Then you have this stuff
http://www.safesearching.com/billmaher/print/t_hbo_realtime_030504.htm
"SMILEY: There's an old adage - there's an old adage, Bill, that says very simply, it's not what you call me, it's what I answer to. When you flip that, what you realize is that those of us who are left of center in our ideology have allowed the right to define the debate. We've allowed the right to define the terms. It's not that this country has become more conservative. It's that those of us who are left of center are a bunch of wimps, and we let them decide what these definitions are. And John Kerry is going to have to deal with Ralph Nader this time around as he should. With all due respect - with all due respect to Barbara Boxer and Terry McAuliffe, I'm glad Ralph Nader is in this race, because somebody--
MOORE: I gave him two thousand bucks!
SMILEY: Somebody - somebody has got to remind--
MOORE: I'm glad he's in the race.
SMILEY: Somebody has got to remind - you know, Karl Rove is happy, but I'm happy as well, because somebody has got to remind the Democrats what it means to stand up for those folks who are socially, politically, economically disenfranchised on the left, not run from the debate and define the terms."
http://tompaine.com/blog.cfm/ID/9942
Kerrorism Cont'd. link
My posting on John Kerry's national security speech to the firefighters drew some angry responses. Some readers seem to think that Kerry's speech was a parallel to President Clinton's program for adding 100,000 cops on the streets. (Of course, a lot of liberals made valid criticisms of Clinton's anti-crime programs, too, since they were clearly an effort to outflank the Republicans with a pro-death penalty, tough-on-crime stance.) Kerry's idea of funding 100,000 firefighters was directly tied to anti-terrorism, not some Smokey the Bear thing about fighting forest fires. He didn't even call them firefighters—he calls the First Responders, which is anti-terrorism jargon for the people who get to the scene of a terrorism incident first. And the whole speech was about President Bush's alleged failure to spend enough on battling terrorism. The Democrats—some of them anyway—are all the time calling for more funding for the Department of Homeland Security. Kerry went waaaay overboard attacking Bush for failure to wage the war on terrorism at home; if you don't believe me, read the speech .
March 17, 2004 | 4:54PM
Kerrorism link
Chin jutting out, Tough Guy John Kerry says (incredibly) that Bush isn't doing enough in the Global War on Terrorism. "I don't fault George Bush for doing too much in the war on terror, as some do," said Kerry, according to The New York Times. "I believe that he's done too little." Speaking to the firefighters, who endorsed him for president, Kerry suggested that Washington needs to fund the hiring of 100,000 more firefighters to combat terrorism. Now maybe Kerry has information that Al Qaeda plans to set thousands of fires around the country, but since 9/11 there hasn't been the need for a single fireman to snuff out a fire in garbage can set by terrorists.
link
Bush may be trying to scare us about terrorism (see following item), but he's certainly scared the Democrats. The Dems haven't found their voice on this issue, and they sure won't if they let Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman speak for them. Clinton, Lieberman et al. seem to think that Democrats can win by accusing Bush of being soft on terrorism.
Come again?
Bush is Mr. Global War on Terrorism, and the Democrats ought to be saying that the GWOT is a crock, not urging Bush do to more. (One of the most misguided Democratic critiques of the war on Iraq is that it took needed energy away from the GWOT.) Yet here is today's Progress Report , from the Center for American Progress, trying lamely to take the terrorism issue away from Bush.
First, the Progress Report touts a speech at Brookings today by Hillary Clinton, calling the Department of Homeland Security a bureaucracy inadequate to its task. Clinton actually goes so far as to say the Department "has no single division exclusively focused on WMD." Is Hillary saying the terrorists actually have WMD? No credible terrorism expert thinks so. And—earth to Hillary—we didn't find them in Iraq, either.
Second, the Progress Report accuses Bush of a "lack of focus on cyberterrorism." Cyberterrorism? Has there ever been any? Anywhere? By anyone?
And third, the very worried Progress Report notes that Bush initially opposed the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. Well, in my mind, score one for Bush. Creating that department was a dumb idea in the first place, and we can thank Lieberman for that. I'm for abolishing it."
http://antiwar.com/orig/pilger.php?articleid=2089
2004: Choose Your Favorite Pro-War Candidate
by John Pilger
A myth equal to the fable of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction is gaining strength on both sides of the Atlantic. It is that John Kerry offers a world-view different from that of George W Bush. Watch this big lie grow as Kerry is crowned the Democratic candidate and the "anyone but Bush" movement becomes a liberal cause celebre.
While the rise to power of the Bush gang, the neoconservatives, belatedly preoccupied the American media, the message of their equivalents in the Democratic Party has been of little interest. Yet the similarities are compelling. Shortly before Bush's "election" in 2000, the Project for the New American Century, the neoconservative pressure group, published an ideological blueprint for "maintaining global US preeminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests." Every one of its recommendations for aggression and conquest was adopted by the administration.
One year later, the Progressive Policy Institute, an arm of the Democratic Leadership Council, published a 19-page manifesto for the "New Democrats," who include all the principal Democratic Party candidates, and especially John Kerry. This called for "the bold exercise of American power" at the heart of "a new Democratic strategy, grounded in the party's tradition of muscular internationalism." Such a strategy would "keep Americans safer than the Republicans' go-it-alone policy, which has alienated our natural allies and overstretched our resources. We aim to rebuild the moral foundation of US global leadership . . ."
What is the difference from the vainglorious claptrap of Bush? Apart from euphemisms, there is none. All the leading Democratic presidential candidates supported the invasion of Iraq, bar one: Howard Dean. Kerry not only voted for the invasion, but expressed his disappointment that it had not gone according to plan. He told Rolling Stone magazine: "Did I expect George Bush to f*** it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did." Neither Kerry nor any of the other candidates has called for an end to the bloody and illegal occupation; on the contrary, all of them have demanded more troops for Iraq. Kerry has called for another "40,000 active service troops." He has supported Bush's continuing bloody assault on Afghanistan, and the administration's plans to "return Latin America to American leadership" by subverting democracy in Venezuela.
Above all, he has not in any way challenged the notion of American military supremacy throughout the world that has pushed the number of US bases to more than 750. Nor has he alluded to the Pentagon's coup d'etat in Washington and its stated goal of "full spectrum dominance." As for Bush's "preemptive" policy of attacking other countries, that's fine, too. Even the most liberal of the Democratic bunch, Howard Dean, said he was prepared to use "our brave and remarkable armed forces" against any "imminent threat." That's how Bush himself put it.
What the New Democrats object to is the Bush gang's outspokenness – its crude honesty, if you like – in stating its plans openly, and not from behind the usual veil or in the usual specious code of imperial liberalism and its "moral authority." New Democrats of Kerry's sort are all for the American empire; understandably, they would prefer that those words remained unsaid. "Progressive internationalism" is far more acceptable.
Just as the plans of the Bush gang were written by the neoconservatives, so John Kerry in his campaign book, A Call to Service, lifts almost word for word the New Democrats' warmongering manifesto. "The time has come," he writes, "to revive a bold vision of progressive internationalism" along with a "tradition" that honors "the tough-minded strategy of international engagement and leadership forged by Wilson and Roosevelt . . . and championed by Truman and Kennedy in the cold war." Almost identical thoughts appear on page three of the New Democrats' manifesto:
As Democrats, we are proud of our party's tradition of tough-minded internationalism and strong record in defending America. Presidents Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D Roosevelt and Harry Truman led the United States to victory in two world wars . . . eventually triumphed in the cold war. President Kennedy epitomized America's commitment to "the survival and success of liberty."
Mark the historical lies in that statement: the "victory" of the US with its brief intervention in the First World War; the airbrushing of the decisive role of the Soviet Union in the Second World War; the American elite's nonexistent "triumph" over internally triggered events that brought down the Soviet Union; and John F Kennedy's famous devotion to "liberty" that oversaw the deaths of some three million people in Indo-China.
"Perhaps the most repulsive section of book," writes Mark Hand, editor of Press Action, the American media monitoring group, "is where Kerry discusses the Vietnam war and the antiwar movement." Self-promoted as a war hero, Kerry briefly joined the protest movement on his return from Vietnam. In this twin capacity, he writes: "I say to both conservative and liberal misinterpretations of that war that it's time to get over it and recognize it as an exception, not as a ruling example of the US military engagements of the 20th century."
"In this one passage," writes Hand, "Kerry seeks to justify the millions of people slaughtered by the US military and its surrogates during the 20th century suggests that concern about US war crimes in Vietnam is no longer necessary . . . Kerry and his colleagues in the 'progressive internationalist' movement are as gung-ho as their counterparts in the White House . . . Come November, who will get your vote? Coke or Pepsi?"
The "anyone but Bush" movement objects to the Coke-Pepsi analogy, and Ralph Nader is the current source of their ire. In Britain, seven years ago, similar derision was heaped upon those who pointed out the similarities between Tony Blair and his heroine Margaret Thatcher – similarities which have since been proven. "It's a nice and convenient myth that liberals are the peacemakers and conservatives the warmongers," wrote the Guardian commentator Hywel Williams. "But the imperialism of the liberal may be more dangerous because of its open-ended nature – its conviction that it represents a superior form of life."
Like the Blairites, John Kerry and his fellow New Democrats come from a tradition of liberalism that has built and defended empires as "moral" enterprises. That the Democratic Party has left a longer trail of blood, theft and subjugation than the Republicans is heresy to the liberal crusaders, whose murderous history always requires, it seems, a noble mantle."

Then you have these Ted Rall toons ( and I'm not sure I can link to them, so I will give dates and titles)
http://www.msnbc.com/comics/editorial_content.asp?sFile=tr040313
The New Democrats 3/13/04
During the 90's the Democrats wallowed in lethargy, 3/06/04
And a couple more going even further back.
Their main point is all the Democrats are running on is Any Democrat But Bush.
No real platform or vision.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Honey. we have vision all right and
look in the crosshairs before you duck. No, I'm not threatening you. This is a metaphor, but do think about it. Your sources are amusing and they do speak for our diversity. If you think we are as weak minded as the other side, though, we are even going to expose stolen elections in the end. That's how focused we are.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. He will have a weak Presidency
if the Senate and House of Representatives remain in control......
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Don't despair.
If he's as tough as they say, he may override most opposition, if he keeps to our side. Sometimes, it takes someone who knows where the bodies are buried to get a job done.
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why the hell do you think Kerry will have a weak presidency?
Freaking Carrot Top would have a strong presidency following bushler.

And Carter was sabataged by the CIA that didn't like him messing with them. They knew what was going to happen in Iran and THEY LET IT HAPPEN.

Sound familiar?

Then bushler 1 went to Iran and made a deal with them to make sure Carter was screwed in the 80 election.

Peddle this "weak" meme somewhere else, it doesn't play here!
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MadProphetMargin Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. You are a Gawd that stomps the terra!
"Freaking Carrot Top would have a strong presidency following bushler."


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *CLUNK!* <falls off chair>
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Do you know the story of Clever Elsie?
It's from Grimm.

For your amusement.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, he's been a good Senator for Massachusetts
and ANYTHING is an improvement on Shrub.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think that the next Republican administration
will be their last for a while. I don't know when their next administration will be. Could be (God I hope not and I don't think it'll happen) another 4 years of Bush*. I think that after the next one, people will make the connection and finally realize that things really go to hell in a handbasket every time they're in the White House.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I think another DU'er had it right.
Being Republican is going to be really uncool in the very near future and for a very long time.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Amen to that!
That's a good way to put my feelings. I'll have to remember that one when I'm back in Colorado Springs. Oy.
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Cleita
"Being Republican is going to be really uncool in the very near future and for a very long time"

Except for that half of the voting population that elects Republicans.
You also have a large amount of people who see Bush strong on protecting the US.
The country will be almost evenly divided for a very long time.
Recall four years after Nixon Reagan got elected to two terms, and Bush one.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Trust me I live in Repulsiveville and they are beginning to see
Edited on Fri Mar-19-04 12:14 AM by Cleita
the light. I, of course, liberal guardian angel that I am, help lead them into it. O8)
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. But...
Clinton has always been the trendiest Republican...

I do think the GOP has an important 'meme' circulating...Democrats who hate Bush are people who wish Bush were Clinton, or Kerry...

He's not Bush in other words...



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Whatever.
Enjoy.
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. And if bin Laden was O'Laden...
...we could have got him snot-slingin' drunk on green beer and bagged him last night.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Considering the fact that we haven't had a real elected president...
...since Clinton was in office, anything would be an improvement over the NeoCon Junta.
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Just what do you expect Kerry to do?
Kerry is calling for 40k new troops. Democrats have offered the Draft bill and the Syria bill is already out there.
Kerry will not break NAFTA, so no jobs back into the US. Possibly some of the Clinton McJobs, but nothing of a livable wage.
He will not revoke Patriot or any of the other heinous invasions of privacy.
He will not overhaul the bloated military budget and return that money to the social safety nets where it belongs.
Other than some bones to the abortion and environmental crowds, what does anyone really expect Kerry to achieve?
Other than beating Bush.
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. How are you so sure what Kerry will do when he wins the Presidency?
Wait a minute........ Are you really Sylvia Brown?
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. buff2
So, Kerry isn't asking for 40k new troops?
Kerry will not have a Republican house and Senate?
Try responding to either the articles, which by the way are from Liberals, or commenting on what you expect Kerry to do.
Unless, you expect very little from him.
Then I would joke as well.
Cause there ain't nothing left.
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. Dennis.........
Have you been listening to any of Kerry's speeches? I must tell you,I am very impressed. If he does what he says he will do,we will have a great President again! My God,I don't think I could stand another 4 years of the bu$h nazi dictatorship. :puke:
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. Softball
-Kerry is calling for 40k new troops.-

If we are going to reconstruct Iraq after the mess * got us in, it will require more troops. To walk away without either the US and Britain reconstructing or the UN keeping some semblance of order on the ground would be a disaster, for Iraq and conversely the whole region.


-Democrats have offered the Draft bill and the Syria bill is already out there.-

More troops may necessarily involve the draft. Right now the US armed forces are stretched dangerously thin. At least some people are willing to admit it instead of pretending it doesn't exist like the current junta in the WH.

-Kerry will not break NAFTA, so no jobs back into the US. Possibly some of the Clinton McJobs, but nothing of a livable wage.-

I'm sorry but you economic analysis is crude at best. Whether we like it or not, global trade is here. Jobs are going to be outsourced. Other jobs will be created. The responsible thing is to make the transition as smooth as possible. What Kerry has proposed is to not give tax incentives to companies to outsource, to close the offshore tax haven loopholes, to stop outsourcing government work, and to begin to address wage and environmental reg disparity in trade negotiations. The fact of the matter is that simplistic glib solutions are not going to solve a very complex but critical problem. At least Kerry is aware that there are problems. * is in complete denial.

-He will not revoke Patriot or any of the other heinous invasions of privacy.-

I don't believe the Patriot act will not be renewed if Kerry is in the WH. I suspect there are many Pugs who do not like it either and a coalition can be built to let it sunset. But for Kerry to come out swinging on the Patriot Act would be political suicide. His largest political liability is Bushler's perceived strength against the "terraists". He can not allow Bush this line of attack.

-He will not overhaul the bloated military budget and return that money to the social safety nets where it belongs.-

This is absolute conjecture on your part. You are grasping at straws. But even accepting your premise, I don't even share your budgetary priorities. I think the primary priority for President Kerry should be to get control of the skyrocketing budget deficit. This is our major domestic threat, not terrorism. The ramifications of skyrocketing budget and trade deficits on the dollar and eventually on interest rate structures in a highly leveraged economy could be far more disastrous than anything you or I have seen in our lifetimes.

-Other than some bones to the abortion and environmental crowds, what does anyone really expect Kerry to achieve?-

You attempt to reduce the complex issues of state governance to absurdities. There are so many differences between these two men, in their fundamental character, in their attitude toward the international community, their records of achievement—especially in the realm of standing up to corruption, in their environmental records, their energy policies, their personal courage, that your simplistic ad hominem reflects either intellectual laziness or an agenda.

O



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Pssst.
I'd place a bet on the agenda.:-)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Buzzz
Why are you so scared to address the issues?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Scared of issues??
I don't think you have presented any yet. Trashing Kerry isn't an issue, it's going to be a sport for the evil side until November, but it's not an issue.
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Cleita
"I don't think you have presented any yet"

I posted two articles from liberal writers who also attack Bush. I posted Tavis Smiley's comment from Real Time. I repeated Kerry's call for 40k more troops.
Unless you can't read, or choose not to, there is more than enough to consider.
I also posted other questions that need to be addressed, like patriot and jobs.
Now why did you avoid answering those?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Liberal writers?
I don't consider them so, but then I'm a socialist.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. What is the purpose of this thread?
Any idea?
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Buzzz
"What is the purpose of this thread?"

Box of hammers, eh?
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MadProphetMargin Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. WHAT freakin' issues?
Your little insecurities? Christ...if you're so scared of Kerry, vote for Bush. Then you WILL be fucked. No more anxieties, though, RIGHT?
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DennisReveni Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. "WHAT freakin' issues?"
Why not read the articles I posted.
Or answer the questions.
I will give you an easy one, Did Kerry call for 40k more troops?
Simple yeas or no.
C'mon, you can do it if you really try.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Undercover Agent Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
33. Kerry is gonna do just fine.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-04 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. Logos
Edited on Fri Mar-19-04 01:23 AM by orwell
Conjecture 1: If Kerry has a weak presidency
Conjecture 2: we could see TWELVE more years of Republican control.
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc: Carter came between Nixon and Reagan. Then Bush 1.
Hasty Generalization: Not much to look forward too, is it?

Actually, let's assume that President Kerry has a hostile House, Senate, and Scotus. He still has a remarkable amount of power at his disposal. The Presidency is now the most powerful of the three branches of government, due in no small part to the War Powers Act and the overuse of Executive Orders... He has the power of legislative veto. He has the moral suasion of the bully pulpit. He has the power of Executive Order. He sets international policy through the state department. He is critical in trade, budget, environmental, and regulatory policy through cabinet appointments. The President of the United States has a tremendous amount of power, with our without the other branches of Government.

That is why the Repukes covet the office so highly.

O


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