Nader is no friend of mine.

[Robin Hood]

I just heard a pundit on MSNBC say that the Dem's will do more to reach out to the Nader traitors. I think that this is a bad move. I believe that in 2000 Al Gore was the closest thing to a green candidate that this country would have ever elected to office and the greens betrayed their own interests in order to drink the Nader kool aid.

The Dem's need to treat Ralph just as they would Bush, he is the opposition. No more Mr. nice guy with the Nader crowd. Unfortunately Ralph will make us spend more money in running against him and in turn take away from funds needed to run against the Bush juggernaut money machine. But that is part of Ralph's plan of re-electing his lover Bush.

But we can not sit idly by when Ralph spreads his filthy lies and deceit. He has already proven that his ideas are stale, out of touch, and he could care less about the plight of the common man, and even more less about the plight of minorities, civil rights, the environment etc.

It's time to treat Ralph like he treated us.

[lancdem]

1. I wouldn't worry about it

Kerry will not change his campaign to kiss Nader's butt.

[Robin Hood]

3. I want Kerry to go after nader.

Just as he does after Bush. Hey Ralph! What have you been doing to stop Bush since 2000?

[mstrsplinter326]

5. he'd have to go after Bush first

[Solidarity]

15. Oh Please ....... Enough Already!

Possibly a whole lot more than John Kerry! Didn't Kerry vote for the Patriot Act, the invasion of Iraq, the non-union Homeland Security Department, etc., etc.,? Unless I'm wrong I believe that Ralph Nader opposed all of the above.

So let's have a little honesty here rather than empty campaign rhetoric and wild accusations. Leave such methods up to the Republicans!

[Sparkly]

23. I don't care about his opinions on those issues

He opposes Democrats. That's all I need to know.

[mstrsplinter326]

46. That's militaristic

what if Clark spoke out against Liberman. Or Kucinich agaist Edwards. Or Clinton against Dean.

What would you do?

[Sparkly]

52. "Militaristic?!"

If Clark, or anybody, opposed the Democratic candidate and effectively boosted Bush, I'd be against that, too; but Clark is supporting the party AND the candidate, so it's moot.

Make no mistake: Nader is doing much more than "speaking out against" anybody!

And I don't see this Great Liberal label. I'm proudly liberal, and Nader is not doing me any favors by effectively helping Bush, again. Is he "more liberal" than me? Judging by what he's doing, NO. Is he "more liberal" than Michael Moore or George McGovern? On the contrary. He's a farce, as far as I'm concerned.

"Militaristic?" REALISTIC.

[Robin Hood]

24. Where has Ralph been?

Ralph is in a nice position of not having to face re-election from his constituence. Ralph has been absent from the madness of George bush in the last 3+ years. He has only shown his face to say that Al Gore lost his own race and that he had nothing to do with it.

I am begging for a little honesty, unfortunately it wont come from Ralph.

[mstrsplinter326]

47. Do you think that lack of media coverage

means that Ralph doesn't have something to say????

Or maybe you belive that politicans can't have political views and something else in their life besides politics????

Do you honestly believe that Ralph doesn't wish he had more say in Perpetual War and the War on the Poor?? That's bunk, if you do.

[DisgustiPatriotiated]

38. Nader didn't have to put his butt on the line for any of those votes

And last I checked, Nader doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning the election, but only taking votes from the one and only candidate that can take the election from Bush. And that ain't no wild accusation or empty rhetoric.

[Offshore Bush]

2. It would be nice if Ralph

just fucked off. It would be nice if some dirt was revealed about his being indirectly financed by the GOP.

[Robin Hood]

7. He has a lot of dirt inhis background.

I have seen web pages that people have put up that used to work with Ralph. he is an asshole who only speaks like a liberal to promote himself. He is disengenuine.

[CityZen-X]

12. Nader The Traitor

Ralph is nothing more than an L-factor! You have to wonder if he is programmed by the Bu$h*t camp.
If he truly cares for this country he would support Kerry instead of trying to take votes away from him. He should go back to what he does best. Informing American consumers about bad toasters and automobiles!

[mstrsplinter326]

48. You sound like a wack-job

Programmed by Bush. Did Gore losing an election by trying to act like a repukkk really make you hate ralphy that much. Lets get serious for two seconds.

"If he truly cares for this country he would support Kerry instead of trying to take votes away from him"

Bush makes that same arguement against any opponents of his incumbency. That's really insane.

If he truly cares for this country he would do what he believes is right: Cleaning up the Dem party.

[nightperson]

16. I may

eventually use this article as my sig line http://www.guardian.co.uk/US_election_race/Story/0,2763,393743,00.html.

[ronnykmarshall]

28. Amen!

Ralph makes me ralph! :puke:

[mstrsplinter326]

4. You make a good argument

for a three party system. Repukkks to the right, dems to the middle, greens to the left.

Ralph's motive was to change the Dem. party for the better. I hope you treat him like he treated you.

[Robin Hood]

14. I wish I could treat him like he treated me.

I have been unemployed to under employed since Bush got into office. My money doesn't go as far as it did before 2000. Corporate crooks are getting away with peoples pensions. We are in a state of non stop war. Our civil liberties are being taken away. The country is being strangled by the Bush's, and where has Ralph been in all of this?

Ralph's motive!! You people make me sick with this Ralps motive bullshit. Ralph is an asshole with no real motive than self promotion and allegiance to the GOP.

[mstrsplinter326]

18. I wasn't aware you knew ralph personally

He's easy to blame though.

It's sad you think a Gore/Liberman would be different in anyway.

[Robin Hood]

21. It's sad to think

That as a dem you have not been personally affected enough by Bush's policies to make you see that there is a difference between the parties. More and more I view Nader supporters as people dramatically out of touch from political and social reality.

[mstrsplinter326]

44. There is a difference...

It's just not big enough. On a world political scale:

Left Right
|-------------------------|--------------|------|
_________________________Dems _________Repukks

And that's not only ok - it's great for some people.

I don't buy into a two party system where the differences on issues aren't glaring, stark and purposeful.

On the other hand, no one should have to buy into only two choices. Dems slam Greens so hard. Mean things are thrown right and left, but none of the mud is slung back. I don't understand the anger toward allies. I HATE BUSH. I will do anything to stop him. But don't ask me to love a man who voted for Iraq II and the Patriot Act. That's a bad man. That's a bit of reality.

Just so I don't ruffle your feathers too much - I live in Indiana. Even if I did vote for Kerry, it wouldn't make a difference. I won't vote for Ralphy either. I plan on campaigning for and writing in Dave Matthews for President. My Presidential votes don't matter. The Dems have a bad record in Indiana State Politics. But I'll still support some of the locals - That's whoring my beliefs, and that's why I support the Green Party and a Multi Party system as long as I live.

[enki23]

6. it sound like you're going to go beat him up

it would be interesting, however, to hear what you *do* plan to do with these traitors. not talk to them? write bad things about them on the internet? start rumors about their mothers? are you going to prank call local green party officials? that would be pretty cool. maybe you could tp their houses too, while you're at it. key their cars. spray paint "nader is a gaywad!!!!!" on their sidewalk. that would be pretty tough. or maybe in the school bathroom. you could write "for a good time call ralph, at 1-800-nader-sucks-sheep-dick." that would be cool too, i think.

[Robin Hood]

10. Yeah let's continue to embrace people who stab us in the back.

This is no sappy country song. I'm not sure where out of my post you picked up those immature suggestions? Or are you saying that if we treat Ralph as he deserves to be treated then we are being immature and mean?

Ralph has turned himself into the opposition of progrsssive values and should be treated as such.

[corporatewhore]

8. Al Gore Green? sure the new al is ok but not the old al

[Robin Hood]

19. Who is the old Al.

The man who wrote earth in the balance. The man who helped forge the kyoto treaty? and so on and so on.

In fact let's compare nader's little seat belt comsumer advocate bullshit with Gore's kyoto treaty. Who is the green?

[corporatewhore]

27. what about gore support of NAFTA/WTO you cant be green and support

freetrade http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/wto/FTAAWTOEnvironment.html

[Offshore Bush]

36. That's what I was thinking.

I'm suspicious of Nader, but let's be realistic: Al Gore is (or should I say was?) to the right of even some Republicans when it comes to offshoring.

[Offshore Bush]

34. Al Gore was hardly a green.

The guy who was the ideological head of the free trade movement is a green?

[G_j]

45. Greens do not support NAFTA, WTO, IMF etc.

that is one HUGE difference. :think:

[Terry_M]

9. Traitors huh?

Nice label to stick on those who are not satisfied that either the democrats or republicans really exist to serve the people's interest. And yeah, don't try to convince them otherwise and just blame them again and call them traitors some more if Kerry loses by less votes than the number of democrats voting for Nader.

[FDRrocks]

11. What he said

[Solidarity]

13. Rhetoric of Anti-Naderites sounds like Republican right-wingers!

Some of the venom spread about Nader here sounds more like the kind of hatred spewed by right-wing Republicans than by progressives.

How in the world can you hope to take away votes from Nader with that kind of nonsense?

3 million who voted for Nader in 2000 are Traitors????!!!!!!! Perhaps you can convince the Bush government to arrest these "traitors" as enemy combatants!

[Robin Hood]

17. If they are not traitors to the progressice cause.

Then they are accomplices to the regressive cause. Because Nader and his kool aid drinkers have done more for the Republican party than the Republicans could have ever done for them selves.

It amazes me that after four years of Bush, we still have people who follow Naders bullshit. Obviously people that live in a world where bush's policies don't affect them. It must be nice.

The Nader slogan should be "out of touch white people for Nader for president in 04'".

[Terry_M]

25. Oh please

What about the 10s of millions of registered voters that didn't vote, and the 10s of millions of unregistered voters who could have registered and voted? They did just as much for Bush as Nader did. How much "in touch" with the people was Gore if he couldn't convince 30-50% of the country to go out and vote? But of course it's easier to admit there is a problem with those 30-50% of elegible voters than admitting there is a problem with your party.

[Robin Hood]

29. This is irrelevant to my post.

My post is about the fact that Nader can't be treated with kit gloves. he needs to be run against just as hard as against bush. After all there is no difference between Bush and nader.

[Terry_M]

32. There is a difference.

Nader wouldn't have gone into Iraq, and had he been in congress or the senate, he would not have voted to go into that war, unlike a certain other presidential candidate...

[Robin Hood]

41. Which candidate?

Gore was against the war in iraq. What about that candidate?

[Deja Q]

30. EXACLY RIGHT!

You said it best and people need to know that.

So 5% of people think Nader is hot. That speaks volumes. There are times when repukes and Dems both deserve to be stranded on a desert island.

But 5% is a nickel.

How about that fifty cent piece people seem to forget about? Meaning the 50% of people who don't vote?

What's more valuable, a nickel or two quarters? Anyone who says "nickel" should be laughed at because it IS laughable.

[G_j]

49. progressive causes

Rand Beers and the fumigation of Columbia?

NAFTA?

[CityZen-X]

20. Analogy Unacceptable

I think what we have here is dismay to wards a Nader vote. The same dismay as one would have for anyone who would cast a vote for Bu$h*t.
In my opinion you have to be a brain dead monkey to do either or. Especially as crucial as the vote is this time around. Sure you have a right to cast a vote what ever way you may see fit. But I say to them, ask not what your Constitution can do for you, but what you can do for your Constitution.

[Robin Hood]

22. Sorry but the Constitution is hard to work into a baseball slogan

like there is no difference between the parties. You have to keep it simple for the politically lazy nader crowd.

[Solidarity]

37. How Kerry Can Win The Election Without Whining About Nader

There is a difference between the three major political parties. I don't know of anyone who claims the Republican, Democrat and Green parties are identical. No one has argued that but that shouldn't prevent any "politicly sophisticated" person from making that false claim.

Some will argue that only one or at the most two of these parties are corporate sponsored and funded.

Some will claim that only the Republican Party is corporate controlled.

Others will claim that only the Republican and Green parties are corporate sponsored.

Yet others will maintain that it is the Republican and Democratic parties that are corporate funded entities.

Which of the above do people honestly believe is closest to the truth?

Now will Kerry be able to convince 7 million registered Democrats to vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate? Albert Gore couldn't. They voted for Bush!

Is Kerry automatically entitled to Green Party and/or Ralph Nader votes if he cannot convince them to vote for his election?

People have a right to vote for whatever political party or candidate they want in the United States. Some may not like that system but I do!

And if Kerry cannot convince more people to vote for him in order to win the electoral college that certainly isn't either the Green Party or Ralph Nader's fault.

Albert Gore could have easily won the election in 2000. It's not Nader's fault that Gore ran a "Republican lite" election campaign.

And it's not Nader's fault that Gore turned tail and refused to take the fight for a democratic election to the end.

When the AFL-CIO wanted to bring out thousands of workers to protest the election fraud in Florida it certainly wasn't Nader's fault when Gore told the organized labor movement to stay out of the streets!

I think people are looking for scapegoats here. Here's all that supporters of Kerry have to do to easily win the election in 2004.

Just go out and convince more people to vote for Kerry and not George Bush! Think you can do that without whining about Nader?

[DisgustiPatriotiated]

40. The first flaw with your argument is that there

are only TWO major political parties, NOT three. The Green Party is a fraction of the left consisting of a few percent and can HARDLY be considered a major party.

Gore and Kerry are both a damned sight better than having a Republican in office and Nader calling them exactly the same is just nonsense. Nader needs to STFU and stay out of the spoiler role this time.

[Deja Q]

26. Turnabout is fair play, and direct your anger to a larger populace please.

Uh, we need to reach out to them and get their votes, if they're that much of a threat. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

The Nader voters are probably thinking people who vote Dem are traitors because of their relationship with corporate america... we need to show that the Dem party means as much to people as it means to corporate america.

Period.

Incidentially, Ralphie will get 5% if he's lucky.

That leaves 95% of the population, half of which doesn't vote.

Aren't you wasting your anger on such fringe elements? Why not convince the ~46% of Americans who don't bother to vote TO vote -> and to vote Democrat.

If 6% means more to you than 46%... I'm thinking the non-voters are worthy of your naked hatred.

[emc]

31. Look at it this way

You can say Nader is only giving the public an alternative----but look at it this way, what if the same thing happens again in the coming election,---can you and I stand another four years of bush---I cant, he has already ruined me with the stock market----whats next????

Then if the same thing happens, and Nader costs Kerry the election, man, there are going to be some pissed off people----really pissed off that he pulled it off twice----and just look down the road, it cant get much worse if Bush gets back in---this country will never recover, but Nader wont be here much longer to see what he has reaped...

[G_j]

53. a simple answer

"this is what democracy looks like"

but hey, AWOL brat-boy doesn't like it either.

[ulysses]

33. the beatings will continue...

:eyes:

[Robin Hood]

35. Here is more proof that there is a difference between the parties.

But I guess the rights of women aren't very important to the nader crowd.

Judge orders hospital to turn over abortion records
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/20/abortion.lawsuit.ap/index.html

[FlemingsGhost]

39. Got a dictionary, L.G.?

Look up the word: "neophyte."

Now... got a mirror?

[Robin Hood]

42. Please address post number 35.

What do Naderphites have to say about that?

[FlemingsGhost]

43. You'll have to ask a "Naderite."

Enthusiastically campaigned for Gore/Lieberman. And guess what? I wouldn't dare feed Nader's ego by attributing the Democratic "loss" on his paltry returns.

Post #35 does nothing to change my view that your understanding of politics is novice, at best.

Simply put, emotion has clouded your vision.

[Robin Hood]

50. Not taking nader seriously as the opposition

shows your political understanding. Gore made the mistake of not dealing with Nader as the opposition.

His paltry returns were enough to swing the vote for bush. Go back to the drawing board.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

51. At the Crawford, TX protest today

a lot of Nader people were out and about and I was glad to see they were roundly ignored. Their efforts to pass out literature were almost completely rebuffed. The Green Party had a table, too, but even though Nader isn't running Green this time, they were ignored too. Seriously ignored.

I heard a lot of "screw Nader" comments.