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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 09:34 AM
Original message
Part time soldiers, PTSD, angry civilians, teenagers with guns
The more this "war" is waged in Iraq, the more angry I get, and I didnt know the depths of anger in myself could reach so deep.
The scenario that is occuring over there, from my take on it and the research I do, from a personal perspective, and from news reports of soldiers returning, and my stepson writing to me, is this.
He tells me of the anger of the civilians where he is. The anger, of course, as I have read in news reports about where he is, is that the civilians are angry due to the fact the US military makes broad sweeps of towns and rounds up thousands of people, some young, some elderly, some women, people who are dragged into the compounds and prisons the US soldiers are stationed at, and thrown into prison with no charges.
They are kept for months and months, and the soldiers, the teenager soldiers from small towns across the US, who signed up in the Guard or Reserves for college monies a few years ago, are now standing there feeling the heat of the anger. Or being told by their superiors to go in and roust out people, kick down doors, put whole families on the ground, tie their hands, and in the case of 6 soldiers in Bagdhad, torture and abuse people, which they have been charged with.
These are the so called "diplomats" the PNAC crowd is using. Teenagers with guns. 18, 19, 20, 21 year old weekend kids that more then likely NEVER left their home state, let alone went to another country where no one speaks english, there is no communication, and the cutltures of the people in Iraq are completely different then the one here. Its like walking onto Mars in some of these soldiers minds. That , unfortunately, makes it easier for the soldiers to dismiss the inhabitants of Iraq as sub human..or, as my stepson told me , some of the guys in his unit said, before he left "Cool. we can kill some ragheads". That made me sick, and it made my stepson sick to hear. There are a lot of these types in the military .
Add to that the stories we hear in the press, of the anger rising amongst everyday Iraqis where the US soldiers, if they enter, are attacked, such as Fallujah, and the press lies and says "Oh, its a few holdouts from Saddam's old regime".
Bullshit, It is not. The crowds I hear that are right where my stepson is are families who are angry. The "diplomatic" corps in Iraq? There is none, the soldiers actions rounding up whole families and dragging off loved ones to places like Abu Ghraib and holding them for months and months with no charges (Guantanamo on steroids), is creating anger that is beyond comprehension.
I wanted to state to my kid..look, how would you feel, if one night here at my house, a bunch of cops came barging in, grabbed you and your brothers , and dragged them out and we didnt know where they were, or what happened to them. How would you feel???
I didnt write that to him, I have to law low. I did say, in an email..remember...these are human beings, these are not evil people. They love their families, they miss them, and they are angry and want some justice so their families are safe.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that this "war" is creating hundreds of new people who are furious with the USA right now. More then ever. A war that never should have happened, and no matter how much the news spins the lies, over and over, eventually that cant keep blaming it on "saddams old Baathist party".
At some point, it will come out that WE, our policies created the anger and the new terrorism and hatred towards the US in Iraq.
In the meantime, I have to contend with my stepson standing there, wondering and scratching his head, as crowds surge around where he is, angry, furious at us for our cruelty towards their citizens, and the inane "diplomacy" of the Bu$h White House is that they went into this with a bunch of KIDS as soldiers who are supposed to occupy, but not anything else. No intelligent diplomatic spokesperson here, folks, no one to tell this administration
"Look....if you go into a country, you appease the good folks there, you treat them with kindness, you dont drag their loved ones around and hold them without charges for no reason."
Richard Clarke calls it the hydra headed monster being created now by the Bush admin..hes right on. For every angry Iraqi being abused, theres tenfold now who are furious at the US and will strike back.
George W Bush has created a new terrorism, more then ever before, his policies, as we all knew they would and they did, are not only making our country we live in the most hated by all of the Islamic states, but by the whole world.
In the meantime, the kids on the ground, just like Vietnam, know full well how much the Iraqi people hate them.
You will see soldiers paraded in front of the cameras who come home now, and they will be told the "right" things they should say, but you wont see too many who will say "they hate us" .
Yesterday, Troop morale stats show the morale is low...52% that came back said its really low...add to that the soldiers think their superiors are being assholes and are doing a poor job..about 70% said that.
If a kid over there is a grunt, hes considered lowest of the low. He gets the dirty work. He has to do what his superiors tell him. He can refuse, but then hes in deep shit.
Group evil, such as My Lai, happens. I.E., Iraq is another breeding ground for troops to fuck up..kids in groups, teenagers with guns, do that when they are hot, have angry people all around them, and hormones are raging, mistakes are made.
Its going to get worse if we dont get the hell out of there. The military is stretched so thin its going to pop.
We are a nation of bullies and thugs.
God help us, when we create monsters of our own children, by sending them off to a bloodbath and expecting them to come home sane.
They arent coming home sane.
They are coming home insane, or dead, or wounded.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

sorry. Had to rant.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. but but Occupation is cool and above all else electable!!!!!!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I cannot fathom the minds of some people I meet
who would still support this "war". I cannot fathom them. These people must be so brain dead, or so mired in denial in every aspect of their own lives, they cannot see past their own take they created as delusion in their own minds. When a man yesterday yelled at me "But they signed up!" I grabbed him and said "Sir, you feel a draft? Your kid is next".
They are so blind.
If you go to a rally, bring enlistment forms. Tell them about the draft coming if Bush is put in office.
Thats the new denial "It wont happen to us, our kid is safe".
No, no one is safe. This cabal came after our kid, and they got him.

They can get yours too.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Do you mind if I post this on another board?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Go ahead
=)
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks...
There are some very conservative Bush lovers on that board, so I expect this will get flamed. But your voice, as the stepmother of a young man over there has a bit more weight than mine.

I just want them to think a little. Some of them are good people who have boxed their minds in. Maybe a tiny little chink will help bring some light to their minds.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Just dont say my name, my nick or anything
Edited on Sat Mar-27-04 10:38 AM by Mari333
I dont want any heat . Gotten enough already =)
oh....heres a website you can post

http://www.mfso.org
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
http://www.vaiw.org
http://www.calltoconscience.net/

the last one will blow their minds.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Done....
Thus far, no replies. It is being ignored. (P.S. I didn't even link here. Just said that it was from an online acquaintance.)
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. we are a planet of bullies and thugs...
nothing unusual about america. basically, good has always been under seige from bad (or evil, as bushwack calls it- being an authority lol) and the lesson of history, whether one uses such things as the bible, koran etc or myths/legends is that the pretty smile, honest face often adorn the bleakest heart. The 'big lie' is succesful cuz ordinary, decent people don't want to believe it isn't true, that the wonderful deal on lovely seafront property in florida is really sand dunes in death valley...
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. mari--thanks for this
People ask what can be done to stop this war. And beyond that, to stop those who create such wars and PROFIT from them. Profit from the death and destruction on BOTH SIDES of the debacle. We know these people's names, their businesses, their addresses. All we have to do is connect the dots.

Enough people have to wake up and be willing to NOT PARTICIPATE. The CRIMINAL CLASS that perpetrate these wars for profit can not have them IF WE REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE. As I see it, that is why we have to PUSH so hard to get the TRUTH of 9/11 exposed. 9/11, for so long now a success story in social control, is quickly becoming their Achilles Heel. People are waking up to what is really going on and we have to keep stoking the fires with our RAGE against this WAR FOR PROFIT machinery.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. this reminds me of a quote by Rushdie
"What a disastrous twist of fate it would be if the feared Islamic jihad were brought into being not by the al Qaeda gang but by the President of the United States and his close advisers." Salman Rushdie
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. as I told Sen Kerrys office the other day on the phone
if I, a 52 year old woman, living in a small town in Michigan, can figure out what www.newamericancentury.org is, if I can figure out the 9/11 timeline, if I can figure out, and I did, that a war in Iraq would create such a fiasco and that attacking it would open a Pandora's box in the Islamic world that would bite us back and bite us hard, if I, a 52 yr old mom in the Midwest can figure that out, why in the world are these morons in charge of running the USA into the ground, and why am I not the National Security Advisor in the White House?
I was right from day one on every count.
since 2000, I was right, we all were.
Now the shit is coming home to roost.
They cant keep a lid on it forever.
Un fricking believable.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. The Junta telegraphed its intentions. It wasn't hard to figure out.
We knew the score, so did the rest of the world. Our media kept the majority of Americans ignorant, and many are willfully ignorant.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. See this other DU thread
What a disastrous twist of fate it would be if the feared Islamic jihad were brought into being not by the al Qaeda gang but by the President of the United States and his close advisers." Salman Rushdie

Below is an excerpt from a Counter Punch article posted on another thread at DU. Article talks about Rummy's plans to provoke terrorist attacks.

This column stands foursquare with the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, when he warns that there will be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large. We know, as does the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, that this statement is an incontrovertible fact, a matter of scientific certainty. And how can we and the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, be so sure that there will be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large?

Because these attacks will be instigated at the order of the Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense.
This astonishing admission was buried deep in a story which was itself submerged by mounds of gray newsprint and glossy underwear ads in last Sunday's Los Angeles Times. There--in an article by military analyst William Arkin, detailing the vast expansion of the secret armies being massed by the former Nixon bureaucrat now lording it over the Pentagon--came the revelation of Rumsfeld's plan to create "a super-Intelligence Support Activity" that will "bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception." ......

According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--will carry out secret missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among terrorist groups, provoking them into committing violent acts which would then expose them to "counterattack" by U.S. forces.


www.counterpunch.org/floyd1101.html

The DU thread about this story here:
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1298445
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Not much different in concept than
Operation Northwood.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Military is as anxious for new recruits as a pedophile in a day care
center.

I feel such a sense of dread.

One of my students left for Iraq the last day of class with his reserve unit. He was a moonstruck kid who wrote poetry about "wishing on someone else's star."

Another kid (now an officer)writes from Iraq that he is surprised by how frightened the Iraqis seem of the soldiers when they burst in their doors. He says he's afraid of his commanders. They risk the lives of their men for the sake of winning medals.

And still we must mail them toilet paper and top ramen or they would have none.

Goddamn Bush.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Families still do not trust the military to supply body armor.
They tell the soldiers they will get it when the arrive, but that isn't always the case. they talked about that on CNN.com

If officers start to get fragged, then it is best to fold the tents and return home.
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m-jean03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-27-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. kick
:kick:
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