Flame me if you must but this Arnold bashing is really annoying...

[vi5]

I'm sorry, but it is. I think the guy is a fool for putting himself in the middle of this, and of playing into the hands of a lot of repubs. And I think Dems have every right and obligation to point out his lack of experience, his vague positions on many issues, and the overall shadiness of the recall itself. Even examining the role that the house of rove played in this whole process. Even joke about his tendency to do horrible, horrible movies. Those things should be hammered relentlessly.

But the smearing about adultery, or bisexuality or movies or pictures or whatever is pure idiocy IMHO. At this point Arnold has not attacked Davis's personal life so the willingness of some to quickly go that route (at least what I see on this board) is troubling. The fact is that on most issues the guy is a liberal. He's pro-gay rights, he's pro-choice, he was against impeachement, and he's very much an advocate for some very good educational and after school programs. So to go the smear route is pretty much admitting "O.K. no matter what his positions or how much we agree with him, we are going to attack this guy simply because he is a republican." And I think people are smart enough to see that type of thinking for what it is and be turned off by it.

Maybe I'm in the minority in my thinking, but it is what it is. Again, I'm not a CA resident so it may not be my place to say but since this is playing out in a large scale on the national stage I can't help but state my opinion on it.

[molly]

1. Thankyou for this post

I actually think he is one of us and will eventually switch parties. It's amazing to see posters attacking him for anything they can think of - just because he is not running as a DEM.

on edit - he is NOT A NAZI!!!!! He paid to research his family tree and was not even born during that time. It is sickening to see posts very much like that other site that we quote on a daily basis. We're above smear bullshit - aren't we?

[Generic Other]

71. He researched his family tree?

His father was a NAZI. A police chief. Old Arnold can run but he can't hide. Some of us have long term memory. I recall a years old interview with "60 Minutes." Seeing Arnold standing on an alpine slope overlooking the family chalet discussing his Nazi bloodlines. I say that if the son of a Nazi acts like a Nazi himself, he deserves to be reminded of his roots daily.

Arnold is what you get when you worship yourself as a part of some master race. A steroid pumped airhead with delusions of grandeur.
Now he thinks he should be given real power?

Tell you what Arnold. Go get a Kennedy relative to stump for you. If you can't get the damn in-laws to endorse you, what makes you think anyone else would want your sorry baby oil slathered ass?

[IndianaGreen]

75. His father was DEAD when Arnold was born in 1947! Blood libel!!!!

This is the same idiotic kind of smear the FREEPERS did to former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General John M. Shalikashvili. An honorable soldier was smeared with the blood libel that his father was a Nazi.

I never thought I would hear some Democrats adopt the hate-filled language of Ann Coulter!


Gen. Shalikashvili, Clinton, Gore

[Generic Other]

82. I would not call him a Nazi if he didn't use Nazi tactics in politics

Anyone who supports him is supporting a brownshirt in the truest sense of the word. He has a a public record. Go find it. Watch the documentaries, the interviews. This guy reeks to Valhalla.

[IndianaGreen]

85. You are getting hysterical!

If Arnold was a Nazi, Maria Shriver would not have remained married to him.

The California Democratic machine politicians got caught with their pants down! Davis and McCauliff put a lot of pressure to keep other Democrats from playing it safe by fielding a candidate. Even Feinstein, who I happen to despise as much as I do Lieberman, was forced to announce she wasn't running.

Then Arnold announces and the Democratic politicians go totally apeshit, and are still in total disarray! Did you see how quickly Bustamante filed the papers?

No one likes Davis! He has 75% of the public in favor of recalling him. Forget Davis. Forget Davis's dirty political tactics. Rally around Bustamante, and present a positive message to the voting public.

You guys keep this "carrot holding-pot smoking-Nazi" shit going and you will only succeed in scuttling whatever chances Bustamante has in becoming governor.

Need I point out that we do NEED California in 2004!

[Generic Other]

90. Hysterical??? I've been in that state since 2000!!

Sorry but I think that anyone would participate in such underhanded efforts to topple legitimately elected officials is declaring war on Democracy as we know it. The integrity of the electoral process is being undermined once again.

I am totally disgusted at the cavalier fashion in which the muscleman asserts his desire to be governor. That he revels in the idea that he could win a governorship without winning the majority of the votes says to me that this man lacks any understanding of what it means to be an American.

Anyone who would be proud to take public office under these conditions is a man I have no respect for.

I have never liked his public persona. I don't care to become acquainted with his politics.

That Maria Shriver a Catholic has stayed married to him is no real proof of his qualities as a spouse. After all, she would not be allowed to participate in communion in her church if she divorced him and would thus be eternally damned. She may be an all-suffering martyr for all I know. She doesn't look like he feeds her.

[lazarus]

110. No, he's not a Nazi

He's just friends with them.

A LITTLE REFRESHER course may be in order. Kurt Waldheim, a widely esteemed former secretary general of the United Nations, was running for president of Austria in March 1986 when it came to light that he had participated in Nazi atrocities during World War II. Waldheim had always maintained that he had served in the Wehrmacht only briefly and that after being wounded early in the war, he had returned to Vienna to attend law school.
In fact, Waldheim had resumed military service after recuperating from his injury and had been an intelligence officer in Germany’s Army Group E when it committed mass murder in the Kozara region of western Bosnia. (Waldheim’s name appears on the Wehrmacht’s “honor list” of those responsible for the atrocity.) In 1944, Waldheim had reviewed and approved a packet of anti-Semitic propaganda leaflets to be dropped behind Russian lines, one of which ended, “enough of the Jewish war, kill the Jews, come over.”

http://www.msnbc.com/news/949666.asp?0cv=CB20

One month after these revelations began to splash across the front pages of newspapers worldwide, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver exchanged wedding vows at the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport. Schwarzenegger, a native of Austria, had invited Waldheim to the wedding, which of course can’t be held against him because the invitations surely went out well before the war crimes story broke. (Schwarzenegger, who held dual citizenship in Austria and the United States, had also endorsed Waldheim.)
Waldheim didn’t attend, but he sent a gift — a statue of Arnold, in lederhosen, bearing off Maria, who wore a dirndl. Admiring it, Schwarzenegger offered a tribute that stunned the assemblage into shocked silence (this is reported in Arnold: The Unauthorized Biography, by Wendy Leigh):
My friends don’t want me to mention Kurt’s name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy, but I love him and Maria does too, and so thank you, Kurt.

[TheBigGuy]

105. Thanks Indy Green

I dont often agree with you, but Ive been picking up on this "German/Austrina= Nazi" equation alot in the liberal online world.

These kinds of slams at Schwartzenegger is just one aspect of it.

[Generic Other]

108. When you are the son of a Nazi shouldn't you be extra careful

not to remind people of the fact by your own behavior?

I consider any individual who takes advantage of a loophole to undermine the electoral process and seize power against the will of the majority to be beneath contempt and guilty of actions that smack of Nazi tactics. That includes Arnold, Bush, Katherine Harris, Diebold execs and the rest of the sorry troop of junior jackboots the GOP has unleashed upon us.

I am not going to be silenced.

The way some of you act, you'd think Arnold was the f*cking Statue of Liberty giving you a blowjob.

[Wonder]

113. He is extra careful

He married a Kennedy and he donates to jewish groups. I am with you pal FUCK THE 'OMELAND ---

[IndianaGreen]

117. Loophole? Guess again! 1911 provision in California Constitution

and seize power against the will of the majority

Last poll I saw had 21% of Californians in favor of keeping Davis.

Don't confuse this with Florida. In Florida the GOp stopped the vote count. In California, the recall advocates are following the California Constitution.

If you don't like it, change the law!

[Generic Other]

118. You are defending legal loopholes based on bad laws

exploited by villainous Hollywood action heroes.

It's legal in my state to scam and rip off people in all sorts of ways too. Doesn't mean the people I respect do so.

[IndianaGreen]

120. A Constitutional provision is not a loophole

We are not talking about the tax code here!

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC. 13. Recall is the power of the electors to remove an elective
officer.


CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC. 14.

(a) Recall of a state officer is initiated by delivering
to the Secretary of State a petition alleging reason for recall.
Sufficiency of reason is not reviewable. Proponents have 160 days to
file signed petitions.

(b) A petition to recall a statewide officer must be signed by
electors equal in number to 12 percent of the last vote for the
office, with signatures from each of 5 counties equal in number to 1
percent of the last vote for the office in the county. Signatures to
recall Senators, members of the Assembly, members of the Board of
Equalization, and judges of courts of appeal and trial courts must
equal in number 20 percent of the last vote for the office.

(c) The Secretary of State shall maintain a continuous count of
the signatures certified to that office.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC. 15.

(a) An election to determine whether to recall an officer
and, if appropriate, to elect a successor shall be called by the
Governor and held not less than 60 days nor more than 80 days from
the date of certification of sufficient signatures.

(b) A recall election may be conducted within 180 days from the
date of certification of sufficient signatures in order that the
election may be consolidated with the next regularly scheduled
election occurring wholly or partially within the same jurisdiction
in which the recall election is held, if the number of voters
eligible to vote at that next regularly scheduled election equal at
least 50 percent of all the voters eligible to vote at the recall
election.

(c) If the majority vote on the question is to recall, the officer
is removed and, if there is a candidate, the candidate who receives
a plurality is the successor. The officer may not be a candidate,
nor shall there be any candidacy for an office filled pursuant to
subdivision (d) of Section 16 of Article VI.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?waisdocid=4913407477+0+0+0&waisaction=retrieve

[lazarus]

126. Here's the "loophole"

They're actually overlooking something:

An election to determine whether to recall an officer
and, if appropriate, to elect a successor shall be called by the
Governor and held not less than 60 days nor more than 80 days from
the date of certification of sufficient signatures.

Since the California Constitution calls for the Lt Governor to fill any vacancy in the Governor's office. So, the minute the recall is certified as approved, there's a vacancy, and it is filled by the Lt. Gov. No need for an election, as he then appoints a Lt Gov.

Somehow the Republicans have pulled a Jedi Mind Trick and gotten everyone to ignore this. :shrug:

[Generic Other]

127. Who cares if it's legal for a Nazi sympathizer to win without a majority

of the vote in California? Who cares if the Supreme Court can overturn the victory of a legally elected president in favor of one who did not win a majority of the vote? Who cares if we vote at all once Diebold starts counting.

Goddamn it, I care. And so do a lot of other Americans. We will not be silent as the stormtroopers goosestep past our windows.

[IndianaGreen]

128. Arnold is not a Nazi sympathizer

Who cares if it's legal for a Nazi sympathizer to win without a majority

Arnold is not a Nazi sympathizer and you diminish your credibility by parroting the histrionics we have been hearing from some Democratic quarters recently. I will point out that if you mention Waldheim, you will also have to mention some big time Democrats in the same sentence.

Bush v. Gore has no relationship, directly or indirectly, to the recall process which has been in the California Constitution since 1911.

According to Article 2 Section 15(c) of the California Constitution, the candidate who receives a plurality is the successor. This recall is legitimate, unlike Scalia's intervention in the Florida election recount process. If you don't like the Constitution, change it!

[otohara]

93. Switch Parties - Dream ON

no he's one of those hypocrite republican's - and that's ok if you're a republican. Lie, cheat, no experience, republican actor...no problem -

Liberal actor = anti-American.

If he hasn't switched to Dem, after being married to a Kennedy for all these years...ain't gonna happen

[Wonder]

114. You think he is ONE OF US...

hahahahahahahahahhaha!! ya as long as the bank account is over 10 million... den pwahaps he might fall into my illustwous circle...

[Loonman]

2. I don't think it matters in the grand scheme

Much ado about nothing.

Reactionary BS.

California elected Ronnie Raygun as Governer, so that about sums up my opinion.

[theboss]

3. You left out the worst one . . .

"His father was a Nazi."

I've voted for a former Klan member in my life. How can I sit up and tar someone with this accusation?

[papau]

4. Smear? -- Truth about mistress is not smear.- nor is laughing

at those that want to discuss his political positions.

But you are correct that in much of CA none of this matters as Celebrity is more important than brains.

:-)



Collage by Wonk - Arnie's Mistress Gigi Goyette is left and right bottom





ARNOLD'S MISTRESS

HIS SHOCKING 7-YEAR AFFAIR


For seven years, Arnold Schwarzenegger hid a mistress from his loving wife Maria Shriver -- and hours after learning The ENQUIRER discovered his sordid secret, "The Terminator" terminated his run for governor of California.

The brazen actor began his affair with former child actress Gigi Goyette when she was only 16 -- and even made love to her in the very same hotel where he was staying with "Dateline" star Maria.

http://web1.ami-admin.com/perl/trackimage.pl?I=6341&H=nationalenquirer%2Ecom&Image=http%




A bombshell ENQUIRER investigation -- featured in our issue that hits the stands Friday -- has exposed the whole shocking story, including how the father of four hid the trysts from his family.<snip>


http://www.nationalenquirer.com/stories/feature.cfm?instanceid=11259

[vi5]

7. But truth about mistresses bothered us...

when it was Clinton. And Arnold stood up and spoke out against that. So now to attack the guy for that seems bit unfair.

Like I said political positions or lack thereof is totally fair game. I just think the eagerness to dig up personal dirt is irrelevant and only makes us look really sh*tty in this case.

If Arnold fired a first shot with personal attacks then my opinion would be different. But for now his only sin seems to be acting as a pawn in a very dangerous game.

[bearfartinthewoods]

54. hypocrites.....

harsh word, but regrettable apt. anyone who harps on any aspect of a candidate's private life, after defending clinton is a hypocrite.

[dansolo]

87. It works both ways.

Bush sold himself a restoring honor and integrity to the White House, making an obvious reference to Clinton. How can he support Arnold now?

[bearfartinthewoods]

95. errr....and this surprises you?

that bush is willing to overlook this stuff? youthful indescretions, don'tcha know....

i'm saying i will not be a hypocrite by attacking arnold on the same stuff that i defended clinton against.

actually, when i did that, i was being a hypocrite since i actually believe that character counts but i've made my bed and now i have to lie in it. so does the party. thank you bill....

i'm really, really glad i don't live in CA.

[bahrbearian]

55. Do you mean he spoke out about the personal attacks

or spoke out about Clinton If he spoke out about Clinton then HE would be Hypocrite

[TankLV]

76. How about a different view?

After harping about Clinton's penis all this farking time, it's about time the repukes got a taste of their own medicine!

Payback's a bitch.

THEY did it to US 1st - repeatedly - and WE have yet to do likewise to THEM!

WE get to do it to THEM.

Then, THEY get to stop FIRST. Only after THEY stop first, do we stop doing it again.

This is only payback.

AFTER YOU! Damn 'pukes!

[bearfartinthewoods]

96. a very good explaination of a 13 years old's logic

maaa, he started it.
did not.
did so.
did not.

we are all free to follow our own ethical standards. mine have progressed beyond the teens.

btw... in a very interesting discussion with a local repub, he explained his version of your arguement. he claims we started it by defending clinton's actions. he says that his party took out nixon when he behaved in a less than presidential manner but that we refused to do likewise with clinton.

according to him, that's when the repubs decided that their gloves had to come off and they had to start fighting dirty like we do.

[diplomats]

104. Nixon lost the support of the American public because

of his coverup. Clinton did not. Most people realized they weren't the same. BTW, the Repubs have been fighting dirty for decades. In fact, it was those tactics that were employed by the VRWC. BTW, I don't favor going after Arnold's private life.

[TankLV]

119. You should know -

You've got the 12 year old's logic down pat.

Nice try. Won't fly.

Logic escapes you, doesn't it?

Go back to grade school!

[Trajan]

83. This is ridiculous ....

You are MISCHARACTERIZING how WE as democrats felt about Clinton's womanizing ... it was WRONG to do so: .... and he SHOULD have been chastized for that behavior ....

To say that Arnold should get a free ride because "some people" gave Clinton a 'free ride' gives to much weight to that class ...

EVEN democrats were offended by Clinton's extramarital affairs: .. but we simply DIDNT think these issues rose to the level of an
'impeachable offense' ....

This defense of our opposition is getting mighty lame ....

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nolabels]

59. Well said !! I have to laugh at the hypocrisy

Frankly, I could care less if he stretched duct-taped hamsters. The parts about being a pawn, is what seems nobody is thinking about.

Please give me a break about needing to feel sorry about for poor Arnie persona, it isn't going to happen. This guy cannot even run a Restaurant. How eff is somebody like that, somebody we need to run the position of California governor.

I like in them articles it seems to say he made amends of being what ever has happened in the past by contributing to charity. Like many other people with lots of money, make myself look good on with money on this side, and use the money on this other side to promote things that will make me money regardless of the consequences.

Truly a person of the ME ME generation. I hope you people are happy defending / promoting him, because I see nothing he has done for California other than accentuate and propel violence in the film industry.

[Wonder]

115. I been thinking about it

the bush neo nazi's want to ensure the state come the presidential election... taking california on recall now can't hurt that aim... BOXER really was SMART now that I brushed up on this topic SHE WOULD LET DAVIS run his course... so that democrats can plan better... and run a prepared democrat next election..

as it stands now because AMERICANS LOVE THEIR MATINEE IDOLS this M'effer this Dubya Pawn in the bigger game might just take California which they have the audacity to name the LEFT coast...

hup to three for get in line goose step till dawn... It doesn't even anger me anymore... I am in between circles out here and know NOT ONE PERSON that even knows what the PNAC is...

Hard to believe but true...

[bearfartinthewoods]

94. it's the Kennedy way

aristocratic, european...the Kennedy men have always had mistresses and the Kennedy women have usually stuck it out. i guess it applies to inlaws as well.

[diplomats]

106. The Enquirer's not the best source, to put it mildly

Much of the stuff they've had about Clinton turned out not to be true, for instance. And that's the case on many other celebrities.

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. If Goebbells Limbaugh attacks him.....

he can't be all bad.
I agree it begins to make us look petty.

[zbdent]

69. Smokescreen. I think that Fatboy wants us to think that

the Repukes don't want him in the office.

Most of the dittoheads who eat the vanilla ice cream that squirts out of his less disgusting orifice (not his mouth) probably also pay to get the extras on his website.

Therefore, they are in on the "joke", and they tell their "in-the-know" comrades.

We who don't get the premium services don't "get it" period.

[Walt Starr]

6. It's all fair game

Politics has become an anal examination. Arnold chose to open himself up to this and everything is fair game.

This was where the bar was set by the Republican Party. Everything Arnold ever said or done must now be examined under a microscope. That's just how it works and I support lowering ourselves to the Republican standards fully. Trying to stay above it all has been a dismal failure.

[Bertrand]

13. So you say

that you need to become immoral and a hypocrite to become involved in politics? Thank you for the introduction to pragmatism, but this line of thinking is regressive.

[Walt Starr]

14. I'm saying this is how politics works

If you choose to seek political office, you shoose to undergo the anal examination.

It's all fair game. His father being a Nazi is fair game. His porn movies are fair game. His affairs are fair game. And I support hammering it all home because not doing so is rolling over and capitulating.

[Bertrand]

19. The creator of the thread wasnt asking

about how politics works, but rather condemning those that participate in it, especially the hypocrites that were defending clinton for masturbating to an intern as an issue of privacy. You seem to believe that it is necessessary to participate in mudslinging in order to win, the validity of that point isnt relevent, however an attempt to morally justify it is what he is condemning. At least thats what i read into what he posted.

[Walt Starr]

20. It is necessary to participate in mudslinging in order to win

Those are the rules as set down by the Republicans. Ignore them and we lose.

It's that simple.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. No

It doesn't have to be that way. Personally, I think Americans are sick of this attitude. Rather than embrace it, we should reject it en masse.

[Rowdyboy]

27. I rarely agree 100% with Walt Starr...

We approach politics from different angles. However, on this issue, we agree completely. Destroy this monster now while we still can. Once he gains legitimacy by being elected, its too late. We're stuck with this creep for life.

I really don't give a damn about his after school programs. He supports gay marriage-so what? BFD. Supports abortion? Who inCalifornia doesn't?

Please, please, don't let this idiots celebrity go to your head. He is not our friend. He is not a moderate.

Ah-nold SSchwartzenneger is a friend of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Dick Armey, Donald Rumsfeld, and Katherine Harris. PLEASE take off your blinders and see this asshole for what he is-a pawn for KKKarl Rove.

[wellstone_democrat]

74. why the desire to imagine he is *really* liberal?

So what, he has a few views that match family members of mine who aren't neo-cons, religious maniacs or other nutty wings of the Republican party. He's still, like them, a Republican funder and voter. He HELPED give us all Bush*. If he is elected to the governorship he will help Bush* in 2004.

The desire to see him as some sort of closet democrat is loony. He stumps for the Bushes, donates to them, votes for them and now follows their political agenda for this misguided election. He isn't a friend of ours, he's a friend of Karl Rove and George W. Bush.

[Hubert Flottz]

31. You Go Walt!

Well said! The very reason we are all in this mess is that Al Gore's team dropped the ball and played too nice! Anyone who watched what the repub bastards did to Clinton and still didn't get it wasn't watching what I was! These pricks play hardball! I NEVER put up with a bully in school and I'm too old to be stupid enough to do that now! Gore knows that too now!

Ask your self this, which is more important our country or your hurt feelings? This is a WAR!

[sendero]

103. sadly....

... I agree with Walt also, and have for some time.

This "high road" crap would work if the average American gave a rats ass about fairness and had the attention span to follow what is actually happening.

They don't - and so we have to play the game the way it is proscribed or lose, lose and lose again.

I understand anyone's distaste for this fact, but I cannot understand anyone denying it. We've let the right turn liberal into a dirty word. Pink tutu "balance" and "fairness" will NEVER overcome that handicap now.

[Emboldened Chimp]

45. Porrn movies?

He made porn movies? I've never heard that. But if he did, then he's screwed--figuratively, of course.

[Walt Starr]

46. It was mentioned on CNN yesterday

Offhandedly from what I understand, sorta like this:

He's particpated in after school programs, the President's council on physical fitness, starred in porn movies, been active in his local town council...

[Flubadubya]

60. I heard that very comment Walt...

and I'll tell you how I interpreted it. Notice how smoothly that little "gem-nasty" is inserted amongst the kudos for Arno! What a sleazy bunch this right wing media. I took that as an attempt to soft-pedal the hard porn by the media. In other words, go ahead and get the trash out in the open, but sugar-coat it so it doesn't sound so stark and harsh, and then hope the public just swallows it down like Linda Lovelace.

Arggh!! Have I said I hate America's media whores lately? Well, consider it said today. :grr:

[TankLV]

78. He did - and I've got some pics!

Came across them awhile ago - found some more on a few gay porno sites last nite - nice to see "democracy" in action!

[Generic Other]

72. 100% right

If this bonehead thinks winning office by chicanery endears him to the masses, he needs to think again. He needs to become box office poison, his action a form of political suicide. Give him the Bill Maher, Dixie Chicks, Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins treatment. Boycott his films. Boo at the mention of his name.

Jackboot tactics such as he has resorted to invite equally hard response. Kick him in his big bloated gluteus maximus.

[Democat]

17. The only way to survive in politics today is to fight back

Many of us Democrats are sick of cowardly "nice" elected democrats not fighting for our side.

You cannot change the way that Republicans are, so you have to fight them using their rules. It's not a good thing, but it's a fact that Democrats are going to have to accept if they ever hope to win again.

[Semi_subversive]

22. Exactly

Al Gore took the high road and lost. He should have attacked. Then we wouldn't be as screwed up as we are today.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Fighting

You can fight without getting down in the muck. Fight about attitudes, fight about beliefs. Gore should have demanded a statewide recount right away. THAT was the moral high ground.

[Bertrand]

26. Al Gore took the high road?

Perhaps you didnt follow the Bradley primary or the general election.

[Rowdyboy]

29. True, Gore campaigned against Bradley...

They were running against each other? Not sure what you would have had him do. Pretty stupid to expect him to ignore his only primary opponent.

What part of Gore's post-election behavior do you find to be not taking "the high road"? You think he should have given in earlier? Maybe bent over a little further? Maybe kissed Bush's ring as a symbol of homage?

Al Gore would have been better served had he left the "high road" earlier and more aggressively. Bush and his evil minions certainly did and we'll all be paying the price for years...

[Bertrand]

32. I cant debate with you

freeper straw-men are a turn-off. If you keep this up....ill tell the MODERATOR.

[Rowdyboy]

34. Feel free, my friend...

I've never had a post deleted in over 2500 and this won't be the first.

However, "alert" the mods all you like. I'm more than happy to accept their opinion. Just not yours.

Or did you just make the threat because you can't answer my question?

[Bertrand]

36. I was being sarcastic

I was parodying those that alert mods. I thought the "..." showed that, but i guess sarcasm doesnt translate well when written. Sorry.

My posts never discussed the validity of mudslinging, but the morality of it those, like the "moral capitalists", that attempt to justify its moral legitimacy. Politically, of course it is effective, but in the grand scheme of things it isnt Bush or whatever, its the evolution of societal culture. Personally, i think your line of thinking is being rebelled against with good reason, and it will lead to the mccain/dean "supposed straight-talker" into office sooner or later. I would rather be on the side of right than political expediency.

[Rowdyboy]

38. Sarcasm rarely translates well in print...

Much more effective when you can hear the distain dripping in your voice.

[Bertrand]

40. Hey, you're putting words into my mouth

I dont disdain you, silly! Lets be friends.

[Rowdyboy]

42. Just being sarcastic...

But it does sound good, doesn't it? "...distain dripping in your voice". Still don't think Gore did anything wrong except not fighting hard enough. When Lieberman came out for counting the illegally cast military ballots I almost lost it. They literally let Bushco roll them and I resent it still. Always will.

Overall, we're on the same side, just maybe not the same page of the playbook. Friends? I can use all I can get...

[charlie]

37. Heh. I think Bertrand's making a point

It's pre-emptive mudslinging. :)

And if DU were open to freeper types, that's the sort of crap we could expect to overwhelm the board until it becomes completely useless. They'd win, because they're unfettered by ethical self-constraints.

I'm with you Rowdy, when we keep taking it in the shorts from ruthless Republicans, that we've kept ourselves unsoiled is miniscule comfort.

[sendero]

107. Anyone who hasn't...

...figured that out by now is never going to figure it out, and will never win a seriously contested election.

The coarsening of America, so decried by conservatives wailing about the culture as portrayed on Tv, in movies and music - has been furthered quite well by their own heavy-handed lying, spinning, twisting accusing political style.

I don't like it, but anyone who thinks you can fight it with "comity" is living in the past.

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. God

I wish we weren't even in the same political party. You advocate destruction. You advocate chasing away ANYONE who might have ever done anything the slightest bit bad. You don't want an election, you want 24-hour scandal and mud slinging.

[Democat]

28. Winning has become everything to Republicans, like it or not

In politics, only the winner has power.

How much influence on policy has Al Gore had in the last two years?

How much has Bush had?

The answer is obvious.

Do you want to win or lose?

[Muddleoftheroad]

35. Winners

Gray Davis won the election, but you say in politics only the winner has power. So how come he is getting recalled?

Gore has had no influence because he CHOSE to run away and hide. That was him, not politics.

I want to win, I also want to win something worth having. Both can't happen your way.

[Emboldened Chimp]

47. That's the way it is, unfortunately

I think we need to be more Machiavellian, like them. We need to get back into power so we can do what we know is right. Who cares how you get into power? Just so long as you do the right thing once you're there.

[TankLV]

79. No, not "everyone", just all repukes!

FIGHT TO WIN, FIGHT HARD! FIGHT ALL THE TIME! NEVER GIVE IN! NEVER COMPROMISE!

Sure has worked for the repukes, hasn't it?!

[linazelle]

56. I agree...fight fire with fire

The only question is: does the end justify the means? If preserving this democracy is important, then I say do whatever it takes to do that--within reason--including examining Ahhnold's character. It's relevant.

Unfortunately, "they" have lowered the bar for what's reasonable and I fear that while we must fight fire with fire, doing so only opens us up to a trap they will quickly step out of when we stoop to their level. If we aren't careful, "they" will successfully label us as the attackers that we know them to be.

Republicans are masters of transference and projection.

[Democat]

8. Arnold's people make constant personal attacks on Davis

Anyone who says that Arnold deserves to be treated better than Davis is asking to lose.

[glarius]

9. My Question: Why is he a Republican if he is REALLY for all those things?

It makes me wonder what his angle is...Does he find it to be a personal benefit in some way to be a Republican?....I saw him live 3 times on morning shows this morning and have a feeling he might wear thin pretty fast....He talks non-stop and he's boring!

[joeybee12]

11. Arnold considers himself a Country Club republican

Like Chafee, Snow, Collins, et al. They're essentially liberal on social issues, but don't like government--basically because they have money.

I don't care one way or another about what he does in his private life--what bothers me is he will get a free pass from the "mainstream" media, whereas Bill Clinton was hounded from Day One. If this doesn't prove the fallacy of the liberal media, nothing will.

[catzies]

121. Yes, joeybee12, it will be interesting to watch it play out that way.

And I have no doubt that it will. Fallacy of the liberal media indeed.

[KamaAina]

64. Especially true in this election, where there's no ballot access issue

Ahh-nuld could just have easily run as an independent, just like Arianna Huffington is doing. In this crazy recall election, there's no advantage to being a Dem or Repuke in terms of ballot access.

Yet, he chose to run as a Repuke. Think about it.

[GainesT1958]

10. You're not alone...

VI--I, too, think all of this personal smear stuff is absolutely sordid and insane! x(

Ahhnold is NOT the kind of guy I want to do that to--I don't want to stoop to their level and do it to ANYBODY, quite frankly, but people like Tom Delay make avoiding it entirely a practical impossibility--and our folks doing that to him puts us right in the gutter with the worst of their idiots--people like Rick Sans-scrotum, for instance.

Pullllease, all of our fellow DUers in California, pass the word that we should only be positive and supportive of our candidates--there is, after all, a lot of good to say about Cruz Bustamente, as I understand--and not take shots at them unless they fire sordid shots at us. I don't see Ahhnold doing that; true, he may be a Repub, but I still like to have a "mental note pad" ready in his movies for some great, memorable quotes. Everybody makes mistakes, and if Ahhnold had been four-square for Clinton's impeachment, his affair would show him to be a hypocrite. But he wasn't for it, and so it just shows that he has a moral Achiles heel, as did Clinton with Monica.

So let us all push hard for Cruz Bustamente's succession of Gray Davis to California's governorship, and suffice it to tell Ahhnold on Oct 7, "Hasta la vista, baby!"

B-)

[deutsey]

12. I've tried to avoid all these accusations

I was talking to a conservative friend yesterday about Ahnuld and he was all excited about it. I've been aware of all these seamy things about Ahnuld for a while (his dad was a Nazi, his alleged infidelity and possible bisexuality, etc.), but I refused to bring them up in our discussion. As it was, I was able to get him to drop the subject just by debating issues. Ahnuld is all fame/celebrity, i.e., there's no there there when it comes to his political vision and abilities, at least none that he has demonstrated.

Unless we have proof that there's some profound character flaw that will compromise his ability to govern, I'm staying away from these things. Having said that, however, there may be some substance to his misogyny (sp?). I think in his films and in real life, he has shown a real contempt for women. Check this out (from an anti-Ahnuld site linked from Buzzflash):

From the July 20, 2003 story in the San Francisco Chronicle.

TERMINATED TAKE: Arnold Schwarzenegger has some big ideas when it comes to running for governor -- but he was definitely thinking small when it came to shooting that bathroom dunking scene for his new action flick, "Terminator 3."

"I saw this toilet bowl," Schwarzenegger told Entertainment Weekly in its July 11 edition. "How many times do you get away with this -- to take a woman, grab her upside down, and bury her face in a toilet bowl?"

But, the Mighty Terminator adds: "I wanted to have something floating there."

Ughhh.

"The thing is, you can do it," Arnold argued, "because in the end, I didn't do it to a woman -- she's a machine! We could get away with it without being crucified by who-knows-what group."

Maybe -- but in the end, the "floating" idea was itself terminated.

"They thought it was my typical Schwarzenegger overboard."
********

Unfortunately, I've seen a couple of his action movies, and among the things that repulsed me about them was the way women (especially "uppity" women) are portrayed. They ultimately have to be killed or humiliated in the course of the movie, it seemed to me.

[Muddleoftheroad]

21. You must not see many movies

The original Terminator was widely criticized by wingers because of the Tough Girl woman character. In fact, tough women crop up in many of his films from True Lies, where housewife Jamie Lee Curtis shows she has the right stuff, to Commando with Rae Dawn Chong.

Personally, I don't see anything anti-woman in his films. He's an actor for God's sake.

[ForrestGump]

43. And he doesn't write the scripts

[deutsey]

53. But the mean ol' movie makers force him to do them?

Poor, Arnie. I had no idea! :evilgrin:

[deutsey]

52. To each his own

You're correct...about the blow 'em up movies, anyway. Most are kind of boring to me, although I remember Terminator having an interesting story (but I've only seen it once and then a long time ago...never felt too motivated to see it again, you know?) For me, most of his flicks are just too cartoonish to pay attention to. That's just me. I don't begrudge others into that kind of stuff. I'm more into movies like Adaptation, Being John Malkovich...Far From Heaven was a surprisingly well done movie, too (I just saw that recently). Lots of the so-called blockbuster movies these days end up boring the hell out of me.

But in a larger sense, I was so put off by True Lies that I specifically go out of my way to avoid his stuff. And, to me, there was a very strong rightwing jock mentality permeating the film; it seemed to me like there was a lot "angry white male" anger simmering in that movie directed at women and dark-skinned people in third world countries. You have your interpretation, I have mine. I don't recall Siskel and Ebert agreeing on everything when it came to movies.

And as far as he's just "an actor for God's sake," I suppose we should just brush off Rush Limbaugh because he's "just an entertainer."

[bearfartinthewoods]

99. can you be more specific?

i can't say that i've seen all his flicks but i don't remember anything like what you are referring to? which movies? i'd like to check it out.

[Rowdyboy]

15. A "liberal" celebrity Republican....

is my worst nightmare. If you want to defend this shill, that's your right. I just hope Californians have better sense and send his ass back to Hollywood where he belongs.

If his political career isn't ended NOW, he will haunt us (probably in Feinstein's senate seat) for the next 30 years. Ah-nold must be defeated or we will all pay the price.

And, yes, his adultery is a n issue. Sorry, but the other team made the rules up back during the Clinton administration. You want to play fair? Fine. Just remember, the Republicans have no intention of playing by your rules. They want to win.

So do I.

[meegbear]

16. I truly can't let him of the hook ...

I saw Ed Rollins, a repug strategist, this morning on TV discussing Arnold. When asked about bringing up his past, he said that people shouldn't focus on Arnold's past activities, but Gray's present activities.

That sounds fair, but people like him in '92 were telling people not to focus on bush's present activities, but Clinton's past activities.

If that's the way they wanna play, then so be it. You gonna run for political office, then (unfortunately) be prepared for it.

[Unknown Known]

24. This thread is almost too naive to reply to

but I only have one thing to say - if the Dems didn't fight dirty back in '94, we would have ended up with Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House forever.

For some reason, the Dems have been unwilling or unable to fight back since then. I think the party has been too compromised and infiltrated.

As a working class person who has seen the quality of my life and that of my children's futures deteriorate since the coup of 2000 and the repuke control of all three branches of govt, I say pull out all the stops - nothing and no one is sacred.

After what Rove did to Max Cleland and the criminal & illegal crap that Tom DeLay keeps pulling off Texas & the House, you should be ashamed of yourself for not wanting to fight the repukes in any way possible.

Arnold is being put in place by the Rove & Co. If you don't see that, you are naive.

[realFedUp]

30. You may not care about someone's character...

but it still counts to many people. Arnold's porn past,
abuse and harrassment of co-workers and women says a lot
about his character. It also says a lot about his wife
who constantly puts up with this stuff. Women were all
over Hillary for staying with Bill but Arnold seems to
be all over women all the time without much of a stir
from conservatives.

This isn't just about Arnold being a bad actor...this
is about what he says and does outside the script.

[htuttle]

33. With brother Flynt in the race, it hardly matters what WE think about it

Larry Flynt will ensure that Arnold's mischief is well known. Take that to the bank.

Why should Arnold's past be hidden from Yorba Linda? They have a right to know about who they are being told to vote for, don't they?

[Karmadillo]

39. There is only one way to deal with bullies

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/april0301.html#0404031109pm

<edit>

For the purposes of our present discussion, the particulars of Kerry's remark are almost beside the point. This is no better than cheap bullying practiced by the president's hacks. And, in political life as in personal life, there is only one way to deal with bullies: you must fight back against them with at least the ferocity and intensity that they use against you. They understand nothing else and deserve nothing better. There's no reasoning with them, no apologizing to them, no hashing out the particulars of remarks you've made.

more...

[ibegurpard]

41. I agree

And when it stops coming from Republicans then I will say it shouldn't come from Democrats either. Until that time, they have no one but themselves to blame.

[BiggJawn]

44. Then don't read the "Arnold" threads!

Geez, how much more simpler can it be?

If I'm not in the mood for the never-ending Green-Dem love/hate-fest, I avoid threads with those words in them.
You could try the same with Arnie.

And why NOT "attack this guy simply because he's a Republican"? Good enough reason for me. Look at ALL the ReTHUGlican party has done for us! The only GOOD ReTHUGlican is an out-of-office ReTHUGlican.

[Giverney]

48. Amen

Good for you bro.
I love love love how we bash the Repukes for their slander and personal-attacks, then all you read on this site is personal-bashing.

Nice intellect.

Arnold is a decent guy overall, he did a great job with his kids ideas and programs, and though he's fiscally conservative, he's very liberal in his social mind.

That and his wife is a democrat, which means he'll be heavily influenced by her to push left more.

the sad, sick, pathetic smear-tactis are just despicable.

thanks for pointing this out.

The only way to make the Democratic party better is to point out it's flaws, not bitch and whine and yell about the Republicans.

[KamaAina]

65. Uh-huh. Just like Mary Matalin's husband pushed her to the left.

That and his wife is a democrat, which means he'll be heavily influenced by her to push left more.

Matalin's husband is James Freakin' Carville, for crying out loud. If the Ragin' Cajun can't get his wife to come over from the Dark Side, why would we pin our hopes on Maria Shriver doing the same to Ahh-nuld?

[ForrestGump]

49. I agree

I don't think the dude is qualified to be Governor, and if he's elected then everyone deserves what they got, for better or for worse. To some extent, though, the wheels of the State bureauracy will continue to turn as they always have and even an inexperienced, underqualified Governor would have a hard time completely disrupting the state's business, at least as long as he or she acknowledges their own weaknesses.

The bashing for spurious reasons is just pathetic (his father was a Nazi - call me when it's discovered that Arnold's one) and even the smearing related to things he has allegedly done is bad enough. Like, so what if he's bisexual - not that I'm suggesting he is - given his support of gay rights.....a lot of DUers are bisexual, too, so is there something 'wrong' with them? The same with adultery - I'm no fan of it, to say the least, but he's way ahead of the Republican pack (and a hefty chunk of the US' populace) in at least not having displayed their blatant and hateful hypocrisy during Bill Clinton's ordeal.

I don't think it has anything to so with succumbing to the Terminator's power versus playing tough. Is he really being positioned by Rove and Company? who knows, but I'm sure that they could have come up with a candidate more appealing to their team's prejudices if they'd planned this whole gambit.

[MaverickX]

51. screw Arnold...

Of course he's attacking Davis. On Jay Leno he blamed Davis for destroying the state's economy. Arnold was acting exactly like you'd expect a Republican to act, like an arrogant jerk. Just because he says he's pro-education really means little since Bush says the same thing. Also just because he's pro-gay rights or pro-choice doesn't mean he's not your typical Republican who wants to reverse "liberalism". If Arnold becomes Governor he promises to make California more business-friendly which means lowering corporate taxes, deregulating business, lowering labor standards, etc. He is only liberal on social issues which just aren't that important to working families trying to make ends meet. Arnold thinks his wealth and fame give him the absolute right to be Governor.

[David__77]

57. His alleged positions...

don't mean anything if he recants. I think you should wait to see what he says NOW as a candidate about gays, abortion, etc. before making a concrete statement. If he's willing to actually bitch slap the right, then he deserves some credit. If not, then he's complicit with them.

[w4rma]

58. I think Arnold's adultery and lechery will be important factors to voters

Arnold the Barbarian
By John Connolly in Premier Magazine
March 2001

Once, he was a box office terminator. But now that Arnold Schwarzenegger has lost some of his muscle in Hollywood, stories of his boorish behavior can no longer be routinely erased. Then again, he'd make a helluva politician. The tabloid press got a nice Christmas present late last year when Arnold Schwarzenegger tore through a day of publicity work in London, promoting his latest film, The 6th Day, which had just opened there. In less than 24 hours, the star was said to have attempted to, as high school boys used to say, cop a little feel from three different female talk-show hosts. The level of consternation expressed by those who received this hands-on treatment from the hulking, Austrian-born international superstar ranged from none whatsoever (Denise Van Outen of The Big Breakfast invites her guests to lie on a bed with her and, hence, probably has a rather elastic definition of what constitutes inappropriate behavior) to irked (on tape, Celebrity interviewer Melanie Sykes looks a little thrown off after Arnold gives her a very definite squeeze on the rib cage, directly under her right breast) to, finally, righteously indignant. Anna Richardson of Big Screen claims that after the cameras stopped rolling for her interview segment, Schwarzenegger, apparently attempting to ascertain whether Richardson’s breasts were real, tweaked her nipple and then laughed at her objections. “I left the room quite shaken,” she says. “What was more upsetting was that his people rushed to protect him and scapegoated me, and not one person came to apologize afterward.”
...
http://www.health-and-medical.com/health/man_health_magazine/man_health_magazine_msg42682/man_health_magazine_msg42682.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=15052&mesg_id=15052

[Sterling]

67. Sorry this stuff matters

This is not a blowjob from a consenting person it is harassment. Larry Flint will ensure this is not ignored.

[ScreamingMeemie]

61. The only thing that is bothering me about it is that everybody seems

to feel a need to post their own personal thread on it. I mean, I log on this morning and the first five threads are about Arnold? Can't we condense them. I promise I'll read the whole damn thing.

[DemDogs]

62. Okay, I don't like him because he is a Republican

What makes him a Republican? That was his choice, not mine. You like his Democratic positions, but if that was all there was to him, he would be a Democrat, and he is not. So he is a Republican for reasons you are not listing. And that is enough for me.

[WilliamPitt]

63. We might be at the 'By Any Means Necessary' stage here

I'm in CA now, and people are pissed and freaked about all this. I say break this shmoe like a matchstick.

[ibegurpard]

66. I'm surprised that someone with such a checkerd past

would have the guts to run.

[MaraJade]

73. As a state employee (not in CA) whose work has included

the development of state budgets (and all of the attendant political
infighting that typically occurs during that process), I am very interested in seeing what "The Terminator" is going to do about the deficit in CA. He has zero experience and I KNOW that he will do something stupid.

One big thing that people do not realize is that state governments
CAN be sued. Pennsylvania has been sued twenty ways to Sunday--most
of the suits occuring during the Thornburgh administration.

If he proposes repeal of Prop 13, there will be a political backlash and/or lawsuit;

If he proposes that massive layoffs of teachers occur, there
will be a lawsuit by teachers and parents;

If he proposes that massive layoffs of state employees occur,
there may well be a work slowdown followed by a strike and/or
a lawsuit;

If he proposes that MediCal (Medicaid) cutbacks be made, then
Medicaid recipients AND ALL OF THE MEDICAL CARE PROVIDERS in CA
will file lawsuits;

If he proposes cutbacks to government funding of local services,
then the counties will sue;

If he proposes that fees for services provided by the CA govt
be increased, look for yet another recall petition.

[mlawson]

68. As governor, Arnold could swing CA for bush next year!!!

THAT, to me, is the danger. What if he wins, and is wildly popular with the nonpolitical masses in CA?? Those who will get excited about "The Terminator" as Governor, woo-hoooo!!!!! The networks have already shown reaction just like that, from the streets there.

If all this happens, Arnold will tour the state with bush next year, and that could swing the state, and seal the election. That is what I worry about!!!

[ButterflyBlood]

89. We won California twice under Pete Wilson

We've won New York all the time with a Republican governor, Massachussets with the very popular William Weld, and plenty of other states.

Bush a few weeks ago had 49% approval in California. Not reelection, approval. There is no way Bush is carrying California, no matter who's in the governor's mansion.

[goforit]

70. Have you seen the evidence?......Don't buck what you don't know!!!

Research.......and you will learn.

Always keep an open mind no matter how much you like the guy.

Hey....I thought OJ was the best guy in the world....and believe
me that all came to a crashing end.

Oh, I thought Michael Jackson was the Best dancer of all time and
most humane individual with all his grand charities he set up.
Well....that point of view also came to an end.

One must NEVER over idolize another human being. As soon as you do,
there always seems to be a HUGE fall.
Look at Mike Tyson.
Look at Koby Bryant.
Look at that CNN reporter that just had hit and run incident.

My god.....the list can be quite long!!!

[IndianaGreen]

77. Davis is an incompetent puke, rejected by 75% of Californians!

Davis should resign immediately and let Cruz Bustamante get a couple of months as Governor. This will also take the wind from the sails of the opposition.

That's what you have to do if you want to keep the governorship, which if you haven't realized by now, it's critical to keep for 2004.

Never throw good money after bad, and right now Davis is a LOOSER!

BTW, rally around Bustamante and don't let any other Democrats run.

[robbedvoter]

102. Davis reduced the Enron defifcit from 38 to 8 billion in a few months

How much did W reduce the deficit?
Did you also want Clinton to resign when the impeachment circus started? How fast should Dems toll over when the stormtroopers knock at the door? Davis eas ELECTED by the people - that ought to be good enough for his term. If this were a democracy that is.

[Trajan]

80. As a California resident ....

I wil NOT stand by and allow even a 'moderate' Republican steal our Democratic gubernatorial office ..

NO way ..

NO how ...

We will FIGHT ANY GOP who attempts to STEAL this office .... even Arnold ....

IF Arnold wants to join the fight: .. then he pays the price: ...

He doesnt need DEMOCRATS jumping in front of him to receive the rhetorical blows, as it were ..

He is a big boy: .... he wants to fight ? ...

Then LETS fight ... damnit ..

I couldnt CARE LESS how much YOU like him ....

He is in MY state: ... and I am NOT going to pull MY punches so you could feel self satisfied ....

Arnold can go to hell .....

[NNN0LHI]

81. I am even sorrier, but we did not set the standards for acceptable...

...behavior in politics. The Republicans did. So yes I want to see Jerry Falwells face the next time he is on some show and someone pulls out the photos of Arnold in different poses and askes the old rev if this is what he is talking about when he mentions Republican family values. Same thing goes for Bush. They can talk the BS. Now lets see them defend their positions.

Don

[burr]

84. What about Arnold's Davis bashing?

I think AS deserves all the shit we throw at him, and more!

[IndianaGreen]

86. Davis's sorry record speaks for itself

and whether we like it or not, the 1911 Constitutional provision which led to this recall is the only thing at play now.

Rally around Cruz Bustamante and forget Davis, his goose is cooked!

[burr]

91. Davis has worked harder than any recent Governor to improve the state.

Most of his problems involve cleaning up the mess left behind by the previous two GOP Governors, granted it will not happen overnight. But Davis is now in the same corner that Truman was in 1948. Polls showed early in the election that the public was overwhelmingly opposed to him, and yet he won!

Justify electing Davis in 1998 and again in 2002, but then telling those who reelected the Governor...fuck you, your vote doesn't matter anymore. Just a goddamned petition counts!

The hell with Bustamante, Garamendi, and any other state Democrat who doesn't give a damn about the will of the voters. Vote no on recall, and for Peter Camejo in the second part.

<http://www.greensagainsttherecall.org/yes-candidate.html>

[Forkboy]

88. If you step into the ring

you best be able to dodge and weave.

[otohara]

92. Oh Boo Hoo...We're Being Mean To Arnold

Fuck him and the rest of the republicans in CA who are staging another coup. Such double standards, Liberal actors are told to SHUT UP, by the GOP -

The guy is fucking around on his wife, sorry but that goes along way and being nice little democrats have gotten us into a major mess. No more nicey.

Any trash brought out about Arnold, will only show that to WIM the GOP will vote for an adulter, who supports abortion, gay marriage, anti-gun laws - such hypocrites -

The wife cheater thing must be hammered over and over -

[MrPrax]

125. Your Right one

This thread is unbelieveable...a car theft hijacks demo cash to fight a stupid recall in CA...so an ACTOR can pimp anti-demo stereotypes for the next year...well past October
And their are liberals supporting Mr. HUMvee...
Your rage is righteous...the right's propogandists should be throttled..
I love Predator...their are aliens in Latin America!!
or another of lamer extremist crap...red dawn, raw deal, eno o daze...kindergartner cop
His keynote was that he was an immigrant that had little more than a nickle and a few international bodybuilding titles to his name--and shamelessly played the system
No principles and no morals--and so what if he built a youth center in LA...
He's scum and YOUR right...
73 million was spent probing Hillary's underwear drawer and THIS guy's skeleton's should come out...
Stay Hungary!!
He smoke dope in the movie...but then when the video release came out he bought the rights--recut it--to take the scenes out...

the guy supports runaway productions...he has done enough

He can be burned large...




The flying Nun Luvs the Termintor...
She hung out with Dolly Parton at the Rolling Stone shoot

[NicRic]

97. Just being part of this recall speaks volumes !

If Arnold was really a man of honor and intelligence, he would refuse to be part of this recall effort. He knows the deck is stacked in his favor ,because of his name, I dont understand how many can be so shallow. Even a Dem poll had Arnold the #1 choice. Did not Davis just win re-election. Anyone that takes part in this ,is an accessory to another repug take over. They cant win elections fair and square, so I guess they will do what ever it takes . No matter how tasteless it is !

[Muddleoftheroad]

124. The recall effort

Is legal. Ahnold is doing nothing wrong by being part of it. Like it or not, this is democracy.

[IndianaGreen]

129. In Bush v. Gore we were out-lawyered by the opposition

and the opposition had a willing audience in the Opus Dei cabal in the Supreme Court.

In the California recall we were caught flat-footed. A smart political move would have been to have Davis resign before the recall signatures were certified, and have the Lt. Governor take office. Davis and his Beltway pal McCauliff went for broke, and they lost!

As Muddle says here, and I have never agreed with Muddle on anything, the recall may be a PR disaster, but it is a constitutional process and the people of California are ready to vote on it. Let's give them a choice, a real choice, and that choice is Cruz Bustamante.

Endless whining about the recall, and ridiculous smearing of Arnold as a Nazi, or his accent, are counterproductive.

[Isome]

98. Damn it, my original post got lost!

He deserves everything he gets for participating in the subversion of the democratic process in this country.

But, please people, forget the 'his father was a Nazi' line. That's no longer effective because he bribes the Weisenthal Center with regular donations. What is important is that he publicly and repeatedly has expressed his love for a Nazi war criminal! Maybe you recognize the name, Kurt Waldheim, former UN Secretary General? That would be the same man the thick-tongued Austrian cares for so much.

At his wedding to Maria, he qualified a toast in Kurt's honor by saying something to the effect of: Maria doesn't want me to do this and others may not like it, but I love Kurt Waldheim! (Think of the Gayle Sayers line: I love Brian Piccalo.)

We democrats need to stop being such wussies and call a foul a foul when it's time. It's time!

[PATRICK]

100. in the actual campaign

This kind of stuff woulfd be better low key and persistent, a backdrop not a condescending panic attack. He should not be given a free ride. Better to enlist the mdeia by getting the message of character and competence into every story, not the silent sneering from some distant ivory tower. And don't make it ever seem like he IS the main contender despite popularity polls used to make people seriously consider voting for the lightweight weightlifter.

[robbedvoter]

101. Aw, he only wants to subvert an election, poor baby!Only a little nazi

but not just his birthright:

http://www.codoh.com/newsdesk/961117.HTML



In 1986 he invited Kurt Waldheim to his wedding in Massachusetts.
Waldheim, the former United Nations secretary-general, was in the middle
of winning his election as president of Austria and "forgetting" his own
role in Austria's Nazi wartime record. A year later Waldheim was banned
from entering America.
Schwarzenegger has also been photographed with Jorg Haider, leader of
Austria's right-wing Freedom party who last year was filmed at a secret
reunion of the Waffen SS, the military arm of the Nazi SS, praising them
as "decent people".
Haider claimed not to know that the Waffen SS had been designated a
criminal organisation at the Nuremberg trials. "

As for adultery, that's maria's business indeed. MY business is talk like this:

Arnold: The Education of a Bodybuilder,'
1977 autobiography
"As we were rehearsing, I saw this toilet bowl. How many times do you
get away with this - to take a woman, grab her upside down and bury her
face in a toilet bowl? I wanted to have something floating in there."

(this is one of many offensive quotes). You want to delude yourself that the California election is stolen by a nice guy?
Hey, remember Raygun? he too switched parties - but not the way you like. There's Bloomberg in NYC - another "lifetime Dem" - he's screwing us royally while bringing the GOP convention to town.
Many thought W was moderate as well when they voted him in. I am not a hypocrite. I am informed.
REPUBLICANS STEAL ELECTIONS

[Wonder]

109. Consider yourself flamed

is listening

[A-Schwarzenegger]

111. Thanks Pal. You

my kind of fantastic guy.
I look forward to your fantastic vote.

[Wonder]

112. LOL

HEY big A hows the hummer... you know that fancy jeep... LOL

[roguevalley]

116. I disagree.

Until he renounces Haider and Waldheim, he has a Nazi problem.
Giving money to the Weisenthal Center and making gestures is a
cynical thing if he keeps both things going at the same time.
I could give money to Mother Teresa but if I keep being a prick
its just cynical.

He's a serial philanderer, a liar, he hurts and humiliates his
wife and children with his BRAZEN behavior, expecting his machine
to quash protest and you don't think that's important? It is.
He's full of platitudes but his rhetoric is interesting. He
says HE'LL make decisions for the people, he blows his own horn,
he has no real substance and probably won't and he hasn't come
clean about Bush/Rove putting this together for him.

He has no loyalty to his friends -catching Riordan flat-footed-
as well as his family. He BRAZENLY cheats on his wife. What
kind of man is that? Not a good one and to lead, you MUST be a
good man.

Clinton blew it. I hated that then and I hate it now but he
owned up and did his job. This man? He lives in a cocoon of
his own construction, protected by his money, hurting even his
family, which he trumpets as being so important. He's been a
lying hypocrite from the first moment of this.

Then there is the anti-democratic aspect of his behavior, which
I believe is part of his Nazi history and his willingness to
BRAZENLY cling to Nazi friends. <Waldheim was guilty of genocide
which makes him as bad as Hitler, yet Arnie still hugs him close>
If he really believed in this country, democracy and loved
California, he would be campaigning against the recall, not
taking part in it. He doesn't give a damn about the vote already
cast for Gray and the fact that the people have spoken. HE
DOESN'T CARE! He's undemocratic, hypocritical, unsuited by
temperament and training to be governor of this great state
and he could care less about those who matter the most and
are closest to him. If he can hurt them without a blink of
his eyes, what will he do to the rest of us?

RV, hating him with special loathing and praying for the state
I was born in.

[Generic Other]

122. Right On, Rogue Valley!

The rightwing strongman may have hoodwinked a bunch of star struck Freepers, but Mr. Schwartzenegger's underhanded stunt seemingly blessed by the Bush gang deserves to be soundly and repeatedly condemned by every Democrat in the country.

Whatever it takes to discourage this man's political aspirations seems reasonable to me. I hope he gets a well-deserved thrashing.

[waggawagga]

123. The "Son of a Nazi" Barb is Such an Obvious Smear it will Backfire

Most people who live in CA weren't born there. If Arnold said, "I moved to CA to get away from my asshole parents" a lot of people would relate to that.

[The Zanti Regent]

130. You do NOT say Please and Thank You when the NAZIS are on the march!

I lost 36 of my relatives to the Nazi Gas chambers.

Arnold's Daddy was one of those who fought on the side that allowed that.

As far as I am concerned ANYTHING Arnold has done IS FAIR GAME.

We know how Republicans run campaigns, if Arnold was a Democrat, they would have ground him into hamburger by now!

Hasta La Vista, Adulterous Arnold!