Why do they hate free speech?

[Hornito]

The right-wing brouhaha over Ted Koppel's reading of the names of our Iraqi war dead, brings back memory of the Baseball-Hall-of-Fame/Tim Robbins debacle. There are hundreds of other examples as well, including those fomented by the religious fundamentalists, that proves the fascist/totalitarian intent of their ideology.

We were warned by so many, from Orwell to Eisenhower ("Beware the military-industrial establishment."), but corporate fascism now controls our nation.

The November election is about so much more than electing a president. It's about saving a democracy. It's about preserving our rights under the Constitution. It's about freedom. It's about peace.

Our failure to remove the Bush junta from power, could be an historic crime nearly equal to the failure of the German people to remove Hitler and his regime. Strong words? Yes. Give this regime another 4 years to do their dirty work, and what do you think the body count will be? And how long before they attack their own citizens?

Personally, I don't care to have that be my legacy, nor that of my generation. It's time for this nation to start thinking about our children, and what kind of country we are leaving them. We have a profound responsibility, and we damned well better be ready to do whatever is needed to help save this nation.

[coloradodem2005]

1. They hate it for it's freedom.

[shraby]

2. With freedom of speech

people will share new ideas. New ideas are anathema to an ideology.

[Occulus]

3. They hate this:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

That's the part that comes after "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." You know, the part They don't want you to know about.

Funny, isn't it, how so many people's education on the text of the Declaration ends with the first instance of the word 'happiness'? Now, why might that be?

[corporatewhore]

4. they hate us for our freedoms (reproductive, speech etc)

[LastDemocratInSC]

5. You've raised several issues ... and at 2:42 AM too ...

Tight control of opinion is essential for the right wing. Their biggest enemies are the uncontrolled opinions that render their propaganda DOA, and make the public at large start thinking about things.

Ted Koppell is a fearful character to them. He raises untidy questions and poses even less tidy answers. Tidy, tidy ... everything in line now.

Mussolini defined facism as the merger of government and corporate interests. Yes, by this definition, fascist elements dominate many areas of our culture. It's not a pretty picture.

Please keep in mind that your appeal to saving democracy will fall on deaf ears among the corporate elite. Do you think they want you and your friends to be able to directly make decisions that affect them?

Yes, the next election is about freedom and preserving our rights, just as you say, but fascists don't see democracy as a reality in our nation. Democracy is an ideal. What we have today is a democratic republic in which elected persons represent the larger will of the voters. It's a particularly nasty way of doing things, but it has held our nation together for a very long time ... Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Please, do care about your legacy ... what happens from this point forward IS your legacy.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. Because it contradicts their propaganda.

[baldguy]

7. Corporations are anti-democratic.

More so than any communist organization.

[Shopaholic]

8. Answer this:

Why was it wrong to show the flag-draped coffins and for Nightline to show pictures of the dead & read their names but it was okay for W to use the image of a flag-draped corpse being taken out of the WTC site? What is it about conservative, repug brains that they can't see the pretzel logic in all of this?

[Tina H]

9. Body count?

If Bush is re-elected, then I predict that the body count will be:

1. Similar to the body counts racked up during the bipartisan Vietnam War.

2. Quite dissimilar to the body counts racked up by Hitler.

Don't cheapen the Holocaust and WWII. In Iraq, we are still counting the dead by tens of thousands and there are no hard indications that this is going to climb up three orders of magnitude into the tens of millions -- 2d Chimpstration or no Chimpstration.

"Strong language?"

yeah, just like:

"the sky is falling" (C. Little)

or

"help a wolf is attacking me" (Peter)

While on the subject of Viet Nam, it is worth noting that the body count substantially stopped during the 2d admin of an (especially evil) Republican admin. At this point, it is more likely that Bush will be regarded by history as "Buxon" than as "Bushler."

Sorry if my rhetoric isn't sufficiently shrill here -- hopefully this doesn't make me a freeper.

[Hornito]

10. Well Tina, I think you underestimate the damage this regime

could do with another 4 years. What makes you think they won't start wars elsewhere (actually, they're already planning to war with Syria and Iran, as we speak)? You assume that things will stay at the level they are now. Would you want to bet your life on that, or perhaps those of your draft-age children? I wouldn't.

And don't tell me, a Jew, about cheapening the Holocaust! It is my personal opinion, that given the chance, this regime could end up being every bit as bad as Hitler's. Can you guarantee that it wouldn't? And, if you notice, in my original post, I used the word, "could", is saying the Bush junta *could* equal that of Hitler's.

And in your body count, I think you are forgetting to count all of the civilians killed thus far in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Haiti. No, this bunch is truly evil. The neocons behind this regime are every bit the equal in evil as Hitler's inner circle. The difference now, is that it is Muslims who are being killed. Perhaps they don't count as much to you?

[Tina H]

11. Being Jewish does not insulate you from cheapening the Holocaust

It is a mistake that someone of any religion can make.

As far as estimates of the total dead, I have read estimates of "100,000+." I think I have gotten this estimate from DU threads, but I can verify if it will help move discussion forward.

Here is a table to help you understand about the 3 orders of magnitude difference thing I alluded to earlier:

WWII / Holocaust: 50,000,000 dead (incl 6,000,000 Holocaust)

2d Iraq War: 100,000 dead (0.2% of WWII / H figure)

Could Bush turn into Hitler in 4 years and bridge this gap (2 orders of magnitude, not 3, my bad)? Anything is possible, but it seems like there are enough legitimate causes for disliking * without drawing dubious and speculative comparisons with what Hitler and his nation did.

If anything the war seems more comparable to the Spanish American war, with the problems in Iraq being comparable to (long-lasting) problems with the Phillipines and Cuba. As bloody and tragic as the Spanish American War was, in the long run, it did teach the US some good lessons about colonialism. It seems like these forgotten lessons are more directly applicable to the current situation, then is the speculative possibility that a 2d Bush admin would round up all the Arabs in Asia and gas them to death.

Most importantly, even if the US somehow does make the grave mistake of "re-electing" *, there is litlle evidence that * could draft enough willing US soldiers to carry out a 21st century Persian Holocaust. This fact is is the part where the Holocaust comparisons go from inapt to mildly insulting, IMO.

[Hornito]

16. Sounds like you are trying to defend this regime Tina....

What you apparently don't understand, is that all it would take would be one nuclear exchange, which this administration is fully capable of, and willing to launch, to surpass the numbers you quote. So I call bullshit. If you want to bet another 4 years of these fascists WON'T be as bad as the Holocaust, that's your choice....

[Snoggera]

12. Because it's FREE

no profit.

[spanone]

13. bush* is before the Supreme Court arguing against constitutional rights

He wants to be able to put YOU in jail without being able to see a lawyer or argue your innocence. He wants to keep you in jail AS LONG AS HE WANTS TO KEEP YOU THERE. This is serious shit folks.

[Shopaholic]

14. Dictators always hate their citizens having free speech

it undermines their regimes

[maggrwaggr]

15. because they are anti-american and hate Democracy

They always have been and always will be.

That is why I fucking despise them.

They cloak themselves in the flag and claim to love their country, yet they fight everything this country stands for.

They burn the flag by their actions.

May they all rot in hell.