How do we win the conservative white male vote?

[bluestateguy]

You know who I'm talking about. The "good ole' boys". The white male conservative with the pooh belly, who is a member of an elite country club, owns a big SUV with an American flag plopped on top (unless he lives in the South, in which case the flag is Confederate). He's devoutly religious and listens to talk radio. He doesn't much care for anyone different than him.

How do we get these folks to vote Democratic?

[eleonora]

1. We don't.

We focus on those who can be saved. If he doesn't care about anyone else, he's a repug at heart.

[Timefortruth]

48. Right, our focus should be registration and GOTV

and we shouldn't waste a single minute trying to convert the damned.

[TankLV]

59. Ya got that right.

Go after the ones who believe and think like we want them to.

If people are willing to educate themselves and become progressive or liberal, and agree with what we believe, then fine.

If people are unwilling to change their belief's, I don't want them!

[ithacan]

53. right!

we can't and don't want to do what it would take to get those votes. If we start pandering to them , why even bother.

Focus our efforts on those who are human and civilized, and get them to vote.

Any efforts aimed at the conservative white guys should be efforts to get them to stay home on election day, if anything.

[Eye and Monkey]

2. We schedule all-day NASCAR races on election day.

And hope they don't vote at all. They'll never vote Dem.

[IronLionZion]

37. best idea ever!

[Christ was Socialist]

3. How do we capture the neo nazi vote?

They are gone. They don't give a shit about anyone. The only way to keep them fro destroying the country is to out vote them.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

4. ditch Kerry

and run an alcoholic, coke sniffing AWOL'er who promises to bankrupt the nation.

It's the only way to be sure.

[fearnobush]

5. Got to speak to their hearts, something Clinton was a master at.

Teach Kerry a little hill billy swagger and he just might pick up a Tennessee or a Louisiana.

[ILeft]

46. That fake Texas swagger is Bush's only advantage

The "just an ole cowpoke from West Texas" crap and the straight-from-God B.S. are the only things that keep him above a 10% approval rating. The problem with trying to expose Junior for the shameless fraud the he is, is that I doubt many supporters would be able to bring themselves to admit they have been fooled.

[minkyboodle]

6. some sort of voodoo spell?

[Leilani]

7. I don t know if you can get them to vote Dem

But they like the military, & they respect military service.

So put Wes Clark on the ticket. He did not protest the war, he was a 4 star General, & he was carried off the battlefield with 4 wounds, 2 quite serious.

He can talk to Southerners, & also has a real good speech on religion & values. He was raised a Southern Baptist, & can relate to those people.

[bigbillhaywood]

14. Short-sighted, of course what can I expect from a Yankees fan.

Just kidding. But seriously, the way the Dems (and other progressives)got themselves in this situation was by only focusing on finding the "right candidate" to win elections. They treated every election like it was the end of the world, missing the forest for the trees. In the meantime, the conservatives were engaged in what the IRA used to call a "long war". They were battling it out in the culture, in the grass-roots, using long-range strategic organizing. They started out by taking over school boards, and now they have a national network of talk-radio hosts and religious organizations that are influencing not just people's votes but their world-views. It's not just that Republicans are in power, but the most ideologically conservative elements are in control of the Republican Party. In the meantime, the Democrats have been moving so far right that in some instances they are nearly indistinguishable from Repubs on key issues (especially economic and foreign policy ones).

We have to start thinkin big picture here, folks.

[bigbillhaywood]

8. Class. The four-letter word in American politics.

You will never win over all the working-class white males, maybe not even most. But there has to be a raising of class consciousness, because we at least need to win over more than we have now. It existed in the 30s, and that got the New Deal pushed through. It will take some time to overcome the decades of right-wing cultural, economic and political propaganda (as well as the left's abject failure to organize strategically and long-term), but creating class consciousness is the only road out of this fucking quagmire.

[QC]

11. Good answer!

And before we can rebuild class consciousness among the masses, we have to rebuild it on the Left, which in America is now almost as oblivious to class issues as the Right.

[TheRedMan]

9. Play up the side we share with libertarians...individual liberties

Point out that bush has gone after amendments 1, 3-9 aggressively. Add that they have as much evidence against Jose Padilla as they have against anyone else.

Repeat as neccessary (read, a LOT)

[newscaster]

12. Here is who you go after....

you go after the women's vote. Conservative men may go to work and bring home a payh check if they are lucky but then they pop a few cans of beer, dissolve into a chair in front of the TV and watch wrestling. But its the women who understands what is happening. She is the one who deals with the averyday things like groceries andf child care and having babies and they are the one who know better than the men. They will be the ones more likely to be swayed.

[NuttyFluffers]

29. Amen

women hold huge sway in power. and they are the only needles that can goad these palookas.

the key to the demonically selfish voting group you are talking about is to hit their wallets, stomachs, and 'nads. and the only thing that hits all three is the woman in his life.

but honestly, i really don't want those people with us. there are working class stiffs who fit several of these categories, but aren't vile human beings. i think you are directly asking for the vote of the vilest of the vile right? nah, they won't switch willingly unless someone puts them through a vise, and who needs 'em anyway?

[DustMolecule]

10. To be honest, imho....

...it's not about democrats/republicans. It's about saving the ideals of the constitution. This nation is in GRAVE DANGER of losing it's underpinnings.

[Pastiche423]

13. "We" might need to concentrate

on how to win the anti-war voters.

There are lots and lots of us. In fact, there are more of us every day.

[shraby]

16. Start a rumor

about GW and Condi..that would do it.

[bigbillhaywood]

17. Funny. Welcome to DU!

[Pastiche423]

20. Not funny

Nor will it be funny when Kerry needs those votes to win.

[bigbillhaywood]

22. I think the post raises a bigger question than "how do we get white males

to vote for Kerry". The big picture is how do we win these folks over to the left. In other words, how do we get more people thinking with a progressive world-view rather than a right-wing one. My answer, as I stated above, I think, is creating class-consciousness. We must do this the same way the right destroyed it: Long-term strategic organizing at the grass-roots (in the workplace and community), battling it out in the culture, and a take-no-prisoners attitude. Problem with liberals is they're too goddamn nice, and they're constantly worried about seeming outside the mainstream. That's why I'm not a liberal. The solution is not gravitating towards the center. That's a losing strategy. The strategy is to move the center further to the left. The conservatives have done a very good job of moving it to the right in the last 30 years.

[Pastiche423]

23. Moving to the left

by backing a pro-war candidate?

Uh huh.

[zeemike]

47. Welcom

I am skeptical like you but I understand Bigbills point.
He is asking how to deprogram a group of people that have been brainwashed with propagandist from heat radio and Fox news.
I would think the way to answer it would be to look to history to see what finally brought the Nazi out of the trance they were in.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

57. Unfortunately what brought the German nation out of its "trance" was

a brutal war killing millions and crushing their country. I'm hoping we don't have to get quite to that point to shake off the Repub yoke! I do wonder sometimes though...

[zeemike]

75. It is my hope too

But sometimes it takes at least a slap in the face to wake people up.

[bigbillhaywood]

68. I don't follow.

I never said supporting Kerry would move the spirit of the nation left. That's my whole point! It's gonna take a lot more than political campaigning and elections to win the hearts and minds of the people. Who knows, maybe in the long-run it's better that Bush wins. Maybe not. But looking towards the long-run is key, instead of just looking at each election. Maybe conventional mainstream politics is not the answer. The answer could be in many other places than the ballot box.

[playahata1]

65. About class-consciousness....

Many self-styled "conservatives" buy into the notion that if you play by the rules, you will someday be like the upper-crust. Therefore, if you want to be upper-crust, you vote Republican. Until these people realize that the powers that be they strive to emulate do not give a damn about them, they will not switch parties.

[LastDemocratInSC]

15. My brother is one of these guys

He is my brother and you know that I care about him.

The only way to win these guys is to provide an alternative to both Bush and Kerry. He can't stand Kerry but he has serious reservations about Bush too.

Who is the alternative? I have no idea.

[Eye and Monkey]

21. Harrison Ford.

I have no idea about his politics, but he's played the president in a full-length film. That's more than Junior has done.

[EV1Ltimm]

18. start making action movies with

the hero listing off liberal talking points while jumping a barbed wire fence on a dirt bike and shooting down a helicopter (controlled by evil death robots) with an RPG.

They'll think "wow, that guy doesn't take ANY shit and he's concerned for his fellow man!"

we can call it "affirmative action hero" or something :shrug:

[drfemoe]

19. Libertarian VP

Kerry rides a bull in a rodeo.

Kerry finds OBL.

Mel Gibson endorses Kerry.

Kerry disagrees with Chief Justice Moore's removal.

Kerry advocates tax credits for pick-up purchases.

IOW . not bloody likely ..

[Cat Atomic]

24. Back off on gun control legislation and protect domestic labor

by enforcing the immigration laws.

[DaveSZ]

25. Put up a Hooters girl in a wet T shirt as our nominee

:P

[DaveSZ]

26. Actually

Maybe we should have nominated Edwards instead. Kerry just doesn't have much charisma, though I think he has a good heart.

[IronLionZion]

41. Or Howard Dean

Kerry is a good guy and all, but he's kind of boring. He would have made a good VP. Hopefully he picks a charismatic VP. Clinton was the grandmaster of charisma.

[Lexingtonian]

27. we don't

As ee cummings's Olaf says, "there is some shit I will not eat" (in " i sing of Olaf glad and big" http://www.americanpoems.com/poets/eecummings/11930).


Their political creed is that American white men, including themselves, get privileged. Other particulars are generally unimportant, except that they be convenient for American white men, including themselves.

It's a hierarchical system and anti-democratic by nature. It's also in breakdown (due to economic change), so those who benefit from it are quick to defend their privileged state and are deaf to negotiation. Tyrants just don't do Democracy. Even the mildest ones don't.

And if the Democratic Party is defined by anything, it is a commitment to actively resisting tyranny/authoritarianisms/oppressions.

More obviously, every meaningful political party excludes some distinguishable group(s) of the society. In the U.S. conservative white men hold a vast and disproportionate amount of wealth and power as a group (though, most of it by very very few of them). But they function as a group, generally, to exclude all others from wealth and power. In public arguments you are with them or against them as a group, usually, along with their allies- a subset of white women, most importantly.

Not that the Democratic Party was always defined this way. Up to the '60s the two major American parties were about two different- competing- groups of white men who differed most crucially in their regionality and ethnic/historical heritage. Roosevelt and Truman made it the party of the not or less privileged and Southern white men began to leave.

There's no reasoning with white male privilege. White men either insist on it or let go of it pretty early on. Part of it is what local society lets them do, part of it is whether locally women (especially their own) acquiesce to it, but most of it is ego and conformity with their buddies.

You can't make an economic argument against it because, after all, it is a system of privilege. If the top person in the hierarchy of white male privilege likes you, you'll do well no matter the formal rules, and if you are disliked you will be treated as sludge by the same. Only when the economic order changes dramatically, when there is no way to attain privilege relative to the (other) peons, will they consider voting against the system of privilege.

[gpandas]

73. wow, youre the first 'other person ' i've met? who quoted...

this poem. i have always loved cummings, and this is one of my favorites. rock on

[dbt]

28. We DON'T win these votes.

I have been living among these guys all my life. You can talk to 'em all day, but you can't tell 'em anything. Their minds got made up long ago and they ain't about to change. Republicans good, Democrats baaa-aad, end of story.

What Kerry needs to do is just what Bill Clinton did: include everyone who has been excluded by the Pugs--which is basically everyone except the Conservative White Male.

Clinton also grew up around these men. If there had been any way to get them to vote Democratic, such a natural-born election hound as he would have damn sure found a way to do it.

:freak:
dbt

[sadiesworld]

30. Intensive deprogramming.

And as for the posts suggesting that another candidate would be more appealing to them than Kerry, I don't think it would make much difference. They will hate who Rushco tells them to hate.

[Hubert Flottz]

31. Bush is doing that for us!

I'm watching it happen here every day and by God I love it!

[Iceburg]

32. Go after the 50% of the pop that don't vote ... show em this

Having worked on several campaigns albeit in Canada I was shocked to find a high concentration of non-voters/apolitical but sentient beings in the sports crowd ...cycling clubs, soccer moms, slow-pitch, t-ball, hockey, bowling, baseball, basketball, health clubs ...
In particular recruit in the amateur/family sports arenas. They are hard-working good folk who live in a bubble of comfort and are typcially too busy to watch the news and thus may not realize what is at stake.

Kerry is a great poster-boy for these crowds









The next president of the United States is a...cyclist
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article_print.php?id=3655

[bigbillhaywood]

70. Agree and disagree

I disagree with the idea that getting people to vote for Kerry for shallow reasons such as being "athletic" will lead to any long-term change, nor do I think that should be a goal of any serious progressive.

However, I strongly agree that we need to go after the 50% that don't vote. I don't think all of these people are apathetic, some are just cynical (and rightfully so) of our political system. We need to create a movement which will energize them.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. moderates maybe. Not conservatives. They are just republican

.

[Iceburg]

34. kick

[bigbillhaywood]

69. Disagree, I've known quite a few people who've moved from

ignorant conservatives to liberals or even radical socialists due to life experience. I'm one of them. And it seems like its happening more and more to people I know lately. A big truck driver friend of mine (in many ways a "good ole boy") just suggested to me the only way to teach the corporations a lesson is for working people to start a revolution. He's a smart guy, but I know for a fact this guy hasn't been reading Marx; he came to this conclusion based on the little he knows about how this country operates and his own experiences at work (especially after he was fired for trying to unionize). Had another friend go overseas with the Army a hard-core Bush supporter, saw the lies of the US gov't, and came back a libertarian socialist. I was a very hard-right winger for a long time, until my union experience and my own encounters with institutional racism changed my views 180.

Average Joes and even political conservatives are switching to the left and becoming radicalized every day on their own. The question is how do we help each other along and get even more people?

[pretzel4gore]

35. from 'George Orwell's 1984' pg 138

"In a way, the worldview of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding, they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm, because it left no residue behind, just like a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird."

[tinanator]

36. offer them a choice

maybe next time

[IronLionZion]

38. screw em

Voter registration and turnout can win it for the Dems.

I don't care about selfish white conservative males. They are a lost cause.

groups who may be winnable: Catholics, rural voters, veterans, elderly, college students, draft-age voters, moderates and liberals everywhere, etc.

The dems need to address rural issues more often (Dean did), that would help a lot in the Midwest and South. Too often they only address urban issues.

[bemildred]

39. Ditto that. nt

[MoonRiver]

40. He doesn't want he or his kids to be drafted.

Put those images of what's happening in Iraq out there and spread the information about an imminent draft, day in and day out. Demand that Lou Dobbs and other reporters with a shred of decency left tell the truth about how * has reactivated the Secret Service and we can start expecting inscriptions to begin Spring '05.

[IronLionZion]

42. You're Texan?

Then you should be familiar with conservative white males.

[against all enemies]

43. Get their wives to vote Kerry

[UTUSN]

44. By Repudiating Any Semblance of Social Progress of Past 100 Yrs n/t

[MrBenchley]

45. Why the fuck would we want to?

"He doesn't much care for anyone different than him."
And the only candidate he will support is the one that reflects his dirt-ignorant outlook. There's already one lazy drunk pinhead in the race...no need for us to find another, especially considering the excellent candidate we HAVE got.

[cprompt]

49. Well for starters

You can stop generalizing us. You are talking to a Mississippi raised ex-republican. Don't watch nascar, the best man in my wedding was black, and I don't have a pot belly. I have lurked on this site almost 3 years now and still can't convince myself to go back to republican or to go to democrat. The majority of the people I talk with have similar viewpoints as me, economically republican/socially democratic, i have seen many on here post that they don't understand how that works so let me give you my breakdown on issues: Keep in mind I am not trying to start flame bait but offering honest opinion, if you flame that only further discourages people like me from wanting to switch.

abortion: personally against it, however I do not believe it is the govt's business what a woman does with her body. so i have to say pro-choice

gun control: defended by our constitution. you can't be for just the amendments you prefer, have to go for all of them. while i do not own a gun, i have absolutely zero problem with people who do for recreational or collection purposes. eliminating guns would not keep them off our streets, to say that is ignorant. if thats your argument, then making drugs illegal has done a fine job of keeping them off our streets.

economy: i understand that you can't punish the company with taxes and expect them not to move to another country to avoid them. companies are in existence to make a profit, not break even or take a loss. i recently read a post about a fair living wage. this has to be the worst idea i have ever heard. you have to have an incentive based society (does not mean greed) in order for some people to try harder, make more, provide for themselves. Now, these people that try harder do more, etc turn around and get the crap taxed out of them for doing it. My tax percentage has gone up the more I have advanced financially. No I don't just mean dollar amount I mean the effective tax rate. By many standards I have seen here I am considered rich because my wife and I make around 100k per year combined. we do live in a nice house, we do drive nice cars, and we do deserve to. I went through the MS school system, ranked 50th in the country. I have had a job since I was 14 and drove a truck to pay my way through college because I came from a lower middle class family as most "southern whites" do. i was given no special treatment or opportunity ever so I do not feel sorry for people who elect to be poor by not trying hard enough. *Keep reading before you flame* On the same side, I have no problem understanding that I should pay some taxes for living in a civilization such as ours. I am for education and training programs, for those that want to succeed but have a rough start b/c I know where they are coming from. I am not for handouts to people who want to live life the easy way. Yes it does happen, in my upbringing I saw enough of it. Not against welfare, can't be, its what supported my grandmother on my mom's side. My mother is the 7th child of 14, the last two born were twins, my grandfather died while she was pregnant with the last two. they lived on a farm, raised their food, and were home schooled. this woman needed a hand, no problem understanding that one. all the kids that could work did picking cotton to help the family.

death penalty: support it. both parties contradict themselves on this issues since you have opposite approaches to abortion. call it a fetus or whatever makes you feel better, life was coming in to this world and you stop it that means you are playing god. if someone decides on their own to go kill five kids I don't give a flying f*ck about their motives or why they did it or rehabilitation, the bastard deserves to die. look at your own child before you answer this one and ask yourself if he/she was raped and murdered by some sicko you would want your tax dollars to pay for them to get a free roof and meals for the rest of their days.

affirmative action: against it. the moment you put a quota system in place (call it whatever you want its a quota system) you lose value. we have a problem when people are given jobs or promoted solely on race, if you think that doesn't happen both ways you are wrong. let the best man win. if i went into an all black small business that sells widgets, the owner i may be qualified and not picked. if its due to race that makes him a racist, its his business he shouldn't have to hire me. it could just be someone was more qualified.

understand, i am not here to flame, just stating some points i hope will help you if you are interested in reaching out to those "greedy conservative white males". if someone like me who has never been here before read some of your comments it would be an immediate turnoff because some of your posts appear racist. just a helpful hint b/c you never know when someones looking.

[bemildred]

50. Welcome to DU.

While I disagree with some of your positions, your overall
point about generalizing is well taken, and you arguments
are reasonable rather than emotional. In our defense, I must
say that we are subjected to the same treatment, and I expect
most of us would be willing to be less aggressive if we were
not subject to attack for our points of view.

[cprompt]

52. oh i understand

democrats are generalized in many ways. i don't think any white people in the south are raised democrats. i heard many different things, tree hugging, race pandering, communist, etc. No one ever mentioned what democrats are for; just what they are against: SUV's, Guns, You having your own money versus being taxed to death, etc. I like to believe that most people are objective and question all of thier beliefs at some point in time. Bush wasn't my driving factor for not being a republican, but he was a catalyst. If anything as to why the democrats have been unable to win the majority of white male votes, its not that they won't listen its that your not telling. Republicans have mastered backing democrats into a corner and making them explain their way out versus the democrat taking the high road (Kerry has done a few times much to my surprise) so all that is ever covered by the media is your explanation for something you were accused of versus your message. I am not for Bush but Kerry doesn't excite me either. I fault Kerry because I still am not clear what he represents. It requires inspiration before most will give up time from their daily life to get involved in politics, right now I am not inspired.

[bemildred]

66. I don't buy either party without qualification,

I look for opportunities to vote 3rd party, or for
"outsiders" like Dean, Eugene McCarthy, John Anderson,
Ventura, even PeeRot. I look to vote against incumbents.
I've known many southern whites, and most are fine people,
but they are badly governed (not that we do that great
here in California either.) I think the two main parties
often collude to keep themselves in power, do a good cop
bad cop routine with the voters, and it's just amazing how
fast laws can be passed if their interests are threatened,
for example we had an open primary law (initiative) shot
down in nothing flat here back in the nineties. See you
around. :hi:

[suegeo]

76. If you're waiting for the press to tell you, don't hold your breath

You said: "I fault Kerry because I still am not clear what he represents."

I don't fault Kerry, I fault the whore press.

Kerry's positions won't be televised much on the local or national news. The corporate press doesn't give much coverage to Democrats. It's not in their financial interest to do so.

What the public will get is ridiculous non-stories about whether medals are medals and if ribbons are really medals, etc. They do this, in my opinion, to distract from what's really important.

My unsolicited advice to you is to educate yourself, go to his web site, read some speeches. Seek out the information, 'cause the whore press isn't gonna give the information to you. For the love of God, don't wait for Paula Zahn or MS-NBC to tell you.

Sorry for the lecture, I'm sure you've figured it out by now, but I just felt like saying the above "for the record."

[newyorican]

51. Free brain transplants...

it's the only way...or bribery.

[OnionPatch]

54. We Don't!

I firmly believe that the Republicans have made it defensible for them to not have to care about anyone but themselves.....care about the poor? "No, they're just lazy and not creative enough to make a living. They should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps!" Care about pollution?....."no, that might take (certain) jobs away from (certain white male) people, and (horrors) require us to understand that our giant, gas-guzzling SUVs are a problem and hey, isn't the end of the world coming anyway?" Reform or curtail corporate corruption? "Heck no! Especially since middle-class-white guys like us have been subliminally promised a slot in the special, "We Make All the Money" crew." Care about equal rights for or respect for people of other (or no) religion? "Why? We were here first! (Except for those heathen redskins, but they don't count because they weren't civilized.)"

When we start pandering to this kind of person you might gain them, but you will lose me and others like me. We just have to keep working at getting rid of the "Me First" philosophy the right has been pushing for decades.

[Classic_Liberal712]

55. For starters

-- run a candidate who'll end hiring preferences that they feel discriminate against them

--make child support laws more equitable to males

--call a spade a spade and not a "shovelling device"

I'm fairly moderate and liberty minded but these are big issues to men, espec. 1 and 2

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

56. The guy you are talking about, who is both WEALTHY and a flag

waving biblethumper, we don't go after. It's pointless. They have both economic advantage and cultural alignment as reasons to vote Repub, and would represent the absolute core of Repub support.

The only reason that someone like this would ever vote against a Repub would be disgust over the course of the Iraq War, which even all but the stupidest recognize as Bush's war. Even then the most he'd probably do is stay home which would be great.

The ones we should have a long term strategy for are the ones with cultural alignment as above, but who are POOR but nonetheless vote Repub because of racism/biblethumpism etc. In the short term (like this year) I doubt if we will ever get many of these people. But if you can spend time (years) patiently showing these people how the Repubs rob them blind, how the tax cuts don't benefit them and how they are taking their overtime benefits etc. you may have something over time. But it can't be strident, or judgemental on people being rednecks etc. because then people will just harden their position no matter how disastrous it is.

In the short term, I would think all the benefit is in registration, voter turnout, and aiming ads at the "mushy middle". After all, we live in a country where the voter turnout has been essentially half of eligible voters the last few presidential elections. Clearly that would, I think, be where the biggest bang for the buck is.

Especially this year---if you buy the "conventional wisdom" that the country is essentially 50/50 in Dem/Repub voter alignment, who do you think is likely to get more turnout, based just on motivation (as opposed to money paid out to "volunteers" to get out the vote)? It's gotta be us, by a long shot. Bushco has all the power, all 3 branches, and is arrogantly raping the country and the world these last 3 years. What have the Repubs got to be angry about to get them to the polls? Some gay people got married in San Francisco? Get real.

[retread]

58. If they stay home on election day that's a win for us!

*

[annabanana]

60. Keep attacking Howard Stern

Then throw in Jerry Springer's show, just for fun. These guys are the original hypocrites.

[bluestateguy]

61. ATTENTION: THIS POST WAS A FARCE

I hope nobody here thinks I was being serious. You folks don't really think that I want the Democratic Party to cater to this type of voter do you? No way! We should formally write these folks off. Republicans are a lot more comfortable than Democrats at writing off entire segments of the electorate. We should be willing to do that to.

[bigbillhaywood]

71. Really? Because I think unintentionally you raised some important

questions. Why are so many white male voters Republicans? It wasn't always the case.

[Forkboy]

74. based on prior posts

I took you completely seriously.

[salonghorn70]

62. How To Win The Vote

I think that the message has to be an economic one, as I understand the political situation here in Texas, the South, and border states. We probably can't win the wealthier ones, but we can go after those in the middle class and lower group. But it can't be an economic message based on more Big Government. It has to be an economic message based on the idea that Washington doesn't always have all the answers. BUT, BUT, BUT, this economic message will never be successful if Democrats don't also stand up for faith, the flag, patriotism and a strong national defense. The average voter that we can target cares about his kids, his kids' schools, the moral climate that is threatening his kids. This voter goes to church but is not necessarily Christian right fundamentalist. Democrats must understand the importance of faith to this voter, if we ever expect the economic message to be successful.

[markomalley]

63. Don't bother...they should all be exiled...n/t

[playahata1]

64. FORGET THEM!

They are a lost cause. They don't give a good goddamn about anyone who is not like them (female, of color, non-heterosexual, non-Christian, not rich, non-WASP), about anything they hate, dislike, don't believe in. Move on. They are not worth saving.

[ulysses]

67. by reforming welfare, of course.

;-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. Emphasize the economic issues and

softpedal the social issues.

The Republicanites characterized the Democrats as "limousine liberals who live in Park Avenue penthouses and want to take away your guns, give all the jobs to blacks, talk your daughter into getting an abortion, and turn your son gay" or something to that effect. Meanwhile, the Dems fell into that trap by embracing the DLC line of giving big business everything it wants, no matter who gets hurt, while continuing to give prominence to the hot button issues throughout the media.

This time around, we need to push the economic issues hard: jobs, health care, affordable housing (a biggie that no one is talking about), college and vocational training, the right to organize, tax relief that doesn't tax wages and salaries at a higher rate than some millionaire's capital gains from the sale of his Palm Beach palace, penalties on companies that outsource more than 50% of their jobs (by denying govt. contracts), job creation through provision and repair of infrastructure, and class-based, rather than race-based affirmative action.

But I digress. All in all, we need to take the initiative and redefine ourselves as the party that promotes the interests of working people, not the party that says, "Yeah, me too, kind of" to whatever the Republicanites say.

This will not win over the hopeless rich authoritarians, but it could go a long way toward tipping the balance with the decent guy who is simply suffering from future shock and taking refuge in social conservatism and macho posturing.

[bigbillhaywood]

77. Bing! Bing! Bing! Give that lady a prize! n/t