Should prisoners get flat-screen tv's in their cells?

[ringmastery]

http://cnn.usnews.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=CNN.com+-+Oregon+prisoners+get+flat-screen+TVs+-+May+3%2C+2004&expire=&urlID=10105812&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2004%2FUS%2FWest%2F05%2F03%2Fprison.tv.ap%2Findex.html&partnerID=2004

SALEM, Oregon (AP) -- Convicted felon Nicholas Krahmer kicks back on a bunk and enjoys one of the latest perks of prison life: A spanking new flat-screen TV that's still the envy of many viewers on the outside.

The tiny 7-inch set resembles flat-screen models installed in cars or on airplane seats. But it beats the alternative, he says -- a night in the recreation room with about 150 other inmates who are prone to brawls over what to watch and where to sit.

Oregon's in-cell television policy springs from years of frustration in finding incentives for good behavior among prisoners serving mandatory sentences.

Krahmer bought the $300 television with money he earned working in prison, where he is paid a few dollars a day for computer drafting. Inmates also must have clean discipline records to qualify for the flat-screens.

[freetobegay]

1. Does it come with maid service?

:eyes:

[rangerfan]

2. Wonder who pays for the cable or Dish?

[the_real_38]

3. Yeah, but make them pay for the cable...

.... and make it Time Warner, so that they can't afford it (like me).

[JayS]

4. How about give him a book? n/t

n/t

[Touchdown]

5. Ugh! I'm reading 1984 right now...

and I can only imagine if those "Teleview screens" have two way cameras in them, letting Big Brother know what people are up to. That book does a number on you!:scared:

[tom_paine]

12. Well,when I first read in in 1983, coincidentally

I seem to recall feeling a sense of relief that I didn't live there and would never have to knuckle under to a Lying, Spying Totalitarian Big Brother.

Now Bunnypants* IS Big Brother. And 1984 is closer to being Amerikan Relaity than at any time in our entire lives, perhaps in American History.

Don't get scared. Get mad.

[pretzel4gore]

32. haha..me too!

tho i read it as a schoolkid, i'm at pg 200 now...they do have tv's in jail! lol (the tv's yell 'shuttup! to prisoners, must have forseen O'reilly!)

[Touchdown]

57. LOL! I'm not that far yet, so don't tell me any more!

Every time I hear about Oh'Really's "Shut up!" comments, I picture The Daily Show's Stephen Colbert pushing his own (fictitious) show. There's a silent scene where, he's hysterically screaming "SHUT UP!" over and over again, in an obvious homage to Oh'Really. Then he pushes his book..."Don't buy this book if you don't have the BALLS!" LOL! I wish he did have his own show!

[dr.strangelove]

6. This is a VERY GOOD program

The prisoners who buy these sets use their own money. The sets vastly reduce the number of prisoners going to the central TV viewing room/lounge, where prisoners have to take turns daily for TV control. There have been known to be outbrakes of violence over TV choice. This allows prisoners to remain in the cell and have a visitor over, to watch TV. 50 sets means up to 100 less people in the TV room.

It is a HUGE incentive to participate "Good Behavior" programs. Persons coming out of good behavious programs can get intop groups like "Better People," an Oregon NPO that helps prisoners transition into jobs after release that have solid pay and health benefits. (Go check out www.betterpeople.org GREAT organization!!!)

[radwriter0555]

25. They pay for it with their own money, why NOT?????

Hell it's a whopping 7 inches.

[Trillo]

7. Which law-abiding citizen

lost their drafting job to a prisoner who's paid a few dollars per day?

[Drifter]

8. Sure ... as long as it can be ...

taken away for bad behaviour.

Cheers
Drifter

[ieoeja]

9. If they earn it? Of course!

Or maybe not. On second thought we don't want to reward prisoners for good behaviour and hard work. When they get out of jail they will find that nobody hires an ex-con, and they will be forced into a life of crime. They should be learning skills from their fellow prisoners that they can employ on the outside instead of wasting their time learning how their life could have been before they screwed it up.

[ThomWV]

10. Sure, Why Not?

Why not? I know some folks think that when a fellow or lady is jailed they should be subject to bamboo shoots under the fingernails but I don't see it that way. I do not demand inhuman treatment of prisoners and I don't demand that they better themselves. I only demand that they do the time the judge sentenced them to. If they can find a legal way to make that terrible time more tolerable who am I to say no?

[slksln]

24. I think you misunderstand what a corrections facility is for.

A prison is meant for criminals to better themselves. Not to sit around until their "time is up." It is meant to be a place where a law-breaker can rehabilitate and become more suited to living in society.

Now, I agree with your point that if they can find a legal way to make their time better, more power to them. The prisons undersell contracts which other companies could have gotten for relatively unskilled labor (I do say relatively, since he does do computer drafting which can be taught on the job training or alternatively with an associates degree).

But just saying that they should serve the time the judge sentenced them to is going along with what prisons have been tending toward, rather than recognizing their ideal purpose. And the more we see them as a place to lock people up for a given amount of time, the less we will be outraged when that's all they are.

I hope I'm being coherent, it's been a loooong day.

[radwriter0555]

26. LOL prisoner to "BETTER" themselves? Ever BEEN to a jail house?

Perps don't BETTER themselves, the gop and the privatized prison system have made sure that prison is indeed meant as punishment, and NOT so-called 'rehabilitation'.

[slksln]

54. read my reply to the posts below (n/t)

n/t

[Book Lover]

36. I must disagree most forcefully

US prisons are not there to make people better - they exist to punish and exact a kind of revenge. If anyone becomes a "better" person once they leave the box (and step into the bigger box of society, but that is another post altogether), it is despite their surroundings, not because of.

[radwriter0555]

47. Exactly. These days prisons merely exist to create more prisoners and feed

the privatized prison machine.

[slksln]

53. now reread what I said...

And you will notice that I pointed out the difference between what they are tending toward and what they should be. If you had taken a minute to read the entire post (it wasn't THAT long) you'd have seen that I agree with you entirely.

HOWEVER, the more we all accept that they are tending further from what they should be, the more we will all collectively allow it to become worse.

edit: fixed grammar

[KissMyAsscroft]

11. As long as it is used to control behavior...

It's really easy to look at this and think that this guy has it made, but he is still in prison.

Depending on his crime, and depending on his behavior he should be able to earn these privileges. It also helps to control violence among the inmates.

[Killarney]

13. Screw that. Prison needs to be a punishment, not a country club.

Let them read books and exercise, sure, but flat screen tv's? Fuck that. That guy could be in there for raping a 6 year old boy and he's kickin' back relaxing. Screw them.

[Bread and Circus]

18. What about it being a "Department of Corrections"?

Perhaps this helps enforce some good social values like
working hard and saving.

I understand the punishment part too but maybe this is a good
thing. It's only a 7 inch tv for christ's sake.

[Jackpine Radical]

45. Or maybe he's in as a repeat offender

for his 3d pot conviction.

[slaveplanet]

14. looks like that $3 a day

slave labor really pays off.

I wonder what the prospects of finding a job as a computer drafter in the nearby vincinity of that facility are? I bet there's slim pickins in that town.

[denverbill]

15. A few dollars a day? We need to outsource that job.

Wow. Not only are Americans competing against cheap India white collar workers, and Chinese slave labor, now, we've got to compete against American jailbirds.

Frankly, I don't give a damn if every prisoner gets a flat screen tv as long as they pay for it. I give a lot bigger damn about US corporations using jailbirds as a cheap workforce.

[slaveplanet]

19. shhhh

that is supposed to be a secret

[Trillo]

20. Bingo! Unemployed? Consider jail.

I give a lot bigger damn about US corporations using jailbirds as a cheap workforce.

This could be an incentive for more laws to jail more people! Patriot II?

Given that we already have our drug war classifying a lot of non-violent drug users as criminals, how much longer until "unemployment" is considered "criminal." The rationalization could be, "Hey, we've got a nice prison job for you here, and if you're really good, we might let you buy a TV with your disposable income."

[denverbill]

21. Well, there is always 'treason'.

Then again, under Bush, they don't really need charges to jail you forever. Ask Jose Padilla. All they need to do is arrest you and lock you away. No lawyer. No charges. No trial. Ever.

[texastoast]

23. Back we go

Here's an idea. Let's go back to "debtor's prison." Bad credit? Off you go!

[Serenity-NOW]

16. ..paid a few dollars a day for computer drafting...

Lucky guy considering the economy. Working in IT, wowser.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Yes they should for good reason

Any prison guard will tell you the best way to keep the peace in prisons is to treat people like humans not animals.

Many prisoners will be getting out one day and returning to public life. It is in society's best interests to make sure that while their freedom is taken away, their ability to benefit from good behavior is not and in fact actually AIDS them in living a good life once outside bars.

For the lifers involved, small perks are good to keep the peace behind bars since these people have nothing to lose by becoming violent.

Finally, the prisoner in this case WORKED for it and EARNED it..a valuable lesson to learn if the person was behind bars for theft or other illegal means of obtaining property.

[Toucano]

22. Well put. n/t

[Angelus]

27. I don't agree with the idea one bit...

these people committed crimes, they knew they did and that the crimes were wrong, and they deserve to pay for their actions.

They're in jail/prison because they are being punished. Why should a rapist/murderer/extortionist be allowed to have the privileges of a free man?

Seems like most prisoners are living better off than I am, and it's not fair one bit.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. How are they better off than you?

Most prisoners work while behind bars unless they are so dangerous they cannot be mixed with the general population.
They have lost their freedom and are behind bars. They are managed most of their day.
Watching a TV is a small perk. Nobody GAVE him the TV, he earned it and purchased it making a small amount of money...many corporations contract with prisons and get what is in essence slave labor as a result.

Again, the HUMANE treatment of prisoners has been proven effective over time in actually keeping the peace behind bars, thereby making life safer for the officers who guard those facilities. Yes the purpose is to PUNISH not animalize a person and make them unfit to function once they are released.

Certain treatments of prisoners behind bars such as deprivation actually have been found to create personality disorders.

People when determining what treatment is best for prisoners need to start considering what kind of person they wish to see be released when that prisoner's term is over...a person who is balanced who has NOT been treated inhumanely and therefore will have an easier time reassimilating...or a sensory deprived animal.

Taxpayers pay the bill when a guard is injured from a prison uprising or a violent occurence.
Again, most prison guards will tell you..the minor perks prisoners can earn for themselves help immensely to keep the peace behind bars.

Anyone who thinks a prisoner is better off than them has obviously not been inside the walls of a maximum security prison or youth facility.

Having worked with youth at risk in the past, I know the value of returning a human being to the streets rather than an institutionalized animal.

[Angelus]

34. Well...where do I start?

They get flat-screen tv's, they get cable, and they get free meals. None of them are paying for anything (except for the tv's.)

I'm out here in the real world, I have never committed a crime, and I have a harder time then any prisoner could ever dream of. I have to pay for rent. I have to pay for food. I don't have cable because I can't afford it. Hell, I only get to eat one or two meals a day, and that's if I'm lucky. I have to go to the laundry mat every week to do my laundry. My apartment sucks. It's dirty. My sink leaks all the time. I can't afford a plumber.

These people have murdered, raped, extorted money, tortured, and any other imaginable crime, and here they are with flat-screened tv's in their jail cells, they are gauranteed a meal, they always have clean clothes. Hell, they have medical coverage while they're in prison. I'm a free man and I have no medical insurance. Prisoners should be paying for their crimes instead of sitting around in their jail cells watching cable tv. How is this fair?

You ever hear the quote "If you do the crime, you pay the time?" Well, these people have committed horrible crimes, and they knew they did, and they should pay for them. Why give them rights that free people have?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you think these guys deserve freedoms for what they did.

[Missy Vixen]

41. Maybe you should give Susan McDougal a call

then again, perhaps you should read her book.

>I'm out here in the real world, I have never committed a crime, and I have a harder time then any prisoner could ever dream of.<

Susan McDougal got the worst the prison system could dish out for simply refusing to lie to Kenneth Starr. Her "heinious crime" was nothing more than not serving Bill Clinton up to Starr and his toadies on a platter. Should she have been subjected to her punishment?

There are heinous criminals in prison, and there are those who were falsely accused and couldn't afford to pay for a top attorney. With the advent of DNA testing, those who were falsely convicted have the hope of perhaps having a sentence overturned. Our prisons are also stuffed with people who made one poor decision, and now have 10 to 20 to think about the marijuana they may have bought or the pack of cigarettes they shoplifted in a moment of desperation. (I suppose prison might be a walk in the park to the guy who was strangled a couple of years ago by a local police officer for stealing a pack of cigarettes from a local Safeway.)

Prisons aren't an evening at the Ritz. Beatings and rapes are commonplace. The vast majority of prisoners are expected to work, and work a full day, for perhaps $1.

Whether or not you believe it, it's better for the guards to allow prisoners a privilege or two for good behavior; it'll keep the guards alive longer. It's also good for prisoners to get some education and job training. They'll get out and not reoffend. Our neighbor runs a faith-based program for prisoners that has a 90% success rate. They learn a trade, work with mentors to adjust to life on the "outside", and even though I'm not crazy about faith based funding, he's doing a hell of a job.

>These people have murdered, raped, extorted money, tortured, and any other imaginable crime, and here they are with flat-screened tv's in their jail cells, they are gauranteed a meal, they always have clean clothes. Hell, they have medical coverage while they're in prison. I'm a free man and I have no medical insurance. Prisoners should be paying for their crimes instead of sitting around in their jail cells watching cable tv. How is this fair?<

Prison medical coverage is nothing to write home about. They basically make sure the prisoner doesn't die in their care and not a lot more. The prisoners who have the televisions pay for them out of their own pockets; I'm sure that they are required to pay for cable as well if they have it. I also seem to remember that the famous prison administrator in Arizona bragged about the half-rotten food prisoners there are served.

Would you rather that the taxpayers' money went for training and rehabilitation, or would you like to continue paying $30K per year, per prisoner?

Julie

[Angelus]

49. Well...their healthcare is still much better than mine.

Because at least they have it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. Actually up to 50% of people in jail are African Americans and up to 10%

are factually innocent as the Prison Project and Northwestern University have demonstrated so before we assess any creature comforts perhaps we should be questioning a system that allows that to occur.

As I stated in my first post to you, there are benefits to making sure that there are some accomodations..you know...idle hands being the devil's play and there is no shortage of devil's play in prisons.

I also MADE the point of making sure you knew those perceived benefits ALSO benefit the guards thereby benefiting the taxpayers who must pay for their injuries.
The point of prison is indeed to punish and unfortunately since the 70's based on faulty studies, people presumed that prisons should NOT be primarily for rehabilitation.

Interestingly enough you even collapse those that are there due to violent crimes with those that are there due to paverty crimes.

I can assure you having been inside major lockdown facilities and observing the politics both amongst prisoners among themselves and between themselves and the guards, it isn't a cakewalk and it is indeed punishment.

Having television is not tantamount to being in a country club.

Finally, if you are a renter and your sink leaks, it is the duty of the person you rent from to fix it not yours so again...some of your story doesn't ring true.

YOu might also want to double check what is informing your opinions since the majority of people behind bars are not there for violent crimes. An uninformed electorate is what has led to locking up so many non violent offenders.

[Angelus]

48. So...10% are innocent...

but the rest aren't. They're in jail serving time for CRIMES they have COMMITTED. They are in jail because they CHOSE to do the crime. If prisoners want sweet luxuries, they shouln't have committed the crimes they're serving for in the first place.

I'm sorry, but I don't see any point in letting prisoners(especially those who have committed high-profile crimes) sit in jail with their pretty little tv's. They should be sitting in their jail cell thinking about what they did. I don't see how people think it's ok for them to sit in a cell and watch MTV.

I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel and I'm not going to think differently on the subject.

[tkmorris]

43. I think your real problem

isn't the way the prisoners are treated. It is (or should be IMHO) the plight of the poor here in the United States.

Think about it. Are you really suggesting that prisoners, all of them not just the worst of them, should have significantly less than you? That's the standard? You have stated that you only eat 1-2 meals per day if you are lucky. What should they get then? A meal every other day? One a week?

No, that's not the answer. You should be concerned with the societal illness that suggests that it is ok for anyone to live in your circumstances, especially given the amount of wealth in this country.

[kimchi]

62. "felon" doesn't mean "violent"

Here in VA a friend of mine was convicted of a felony for...wait for it...stealing a stereo system of a friend who pissed him off by stealing something of his. They both went to jail, so much for vendettas. At the time, stealing anything worth over $200 was a felony. Yeah, I can see how these two were a menace to society. Lock them up and throw away the key--these FELONS committed such horrible, horrible crimes, right???????????

Everyone thinks "felon" means you've done something horrible, and that just isn't true. Being caught with an ounce of weed is a felony. Please be aware that the confusion of this term is deliberately used to divide us even further.

Let those who have exhibited good behavior and pay for it themselves have their damn TV sets. At least they aren't raping or fighting each other.

[Karenina]

28. Exactly WHAT

is the purpose of this thread? :shrug:
And WHERE is the author? :eyes:
Can you spell B-A-N-D-W-I-D-T-H boys and girls? I KNEW you could!

[West Coast Democrat]

30. I know there are people who think prisoners should suffer greatly.....

but I don't see how it does society any good to make life absolutely unbearable for people in prison. It doesn't help our world for someone to leave prison with an anger and negativity that is worse than when they got in.

[markomalley]

31. I think it's great...and the prisoners shouldn't have to pay for it

Look...these people will someday emerge from prison. If we treat them like they are dirt for the 5, 10, 20 years they spend behind bars, they will emerge more bitter and meaner than they were going in and will be a greater danger to society.

Personally, I think that this is a good idea.

But, I also think that they should have minimal restraints to protect society until they are rehabilitated. They should be getting a full spectrum of mental health, medical, and educational benefits while they are away -- we should concentrate on doing what is needed to cure them of the illness that caused them to commit the crime to begin with. It may involve curing some organic condition or it may involve some intense re-education effort to undo psychological trauma that they experienced as a child. But we need to apply a more modern, rehabilitative approach to them.

What ever happened to charity and forgiveness???

[bigbillhaywood]

35. Screw charity and forgiveness, rehabilitation is just good public policy

and punishment bad and short-sighted public policy. Appealing to forgiveness for criminals will not get you far in this world (even if you're right). I think the practical arguments you made were much stronger.

[markomalley]

40. It is just another way that our sick society must change...

...we can rehabilitate all we want, but if society doesn't do forgiveness and charity, they will not be allowed to be productive citizens once they return to society. That is the second biggest problem with our prison system right now.

[bigbillhaywood]

33. You fucking pinko agitators SHOULD support it...

Who knows when Ashcroft's thugs will come for you. Might as well have a flat-screen TV while in the can.

[Minstrel Boy]

37. Seven inches isn't even enough to give me penis envy.

What's the big deal?

They pay for the privilege, and it spares them the violence of the common room. Problem with that?

[w4rma]

38. Fine with me. Besides, 7 inches is tiny and at least the content won't

be underfunded like the content of their libraries are.

[bigbillhaywood]

39. Too...many...possible...penis jokes...brain overload! Zap! Crash!

We apologize, but the content of the previous post was too much for bigbillhaywood's juvenile gutter mind to handle.

[rumguy]

44. well he earned it and payed for it himself....

and it is given only if they have a clean discipline record...so hey it's a good plan...

[Cocoa]

46. yes

sounds like a good program.

[MrSlayer]

50. No, Prison is supposed to be punishment.

Why should some asshole murderer be allowed to enjoy TV or anything else while his victim rots and the victim's family grieves? They should be breaking rocks all day or something equally unpleasant.

[Angelus]

51. Thank you!

I agree 100%!

[IrateCitizen]

58. It is? I thought the purpose of our penal system was rehabilitation.

In case you failed to notice from the article, prisoners are not "given" these sets -- they have to buy them with the few dollars per day that they earn for doing work while in prison.

Furthermore, you confined your argument strictly to people convicted of murder. Would that argument also apply to people in prison for, say, nonviolent drug offenses? What about burglary? Should we make prison life for these people as unpleasant as possible, with an eye on punishing them rather than helping to make them productive members of society upon their eventual release?

[MrPrax]

52. Sure...

"Krahmer bought the $300 television with money he earned working in prison, where he is paid a few dollars a day for computer drafting. Inmates also must have clean discipline records to qualify for the flat-screens."

Sounds like what prison is suppose to do...

Instead of complaining about they're cells, non-prisoners whould complain about their own...

[Deja Q]

55. Damn, so that's all I need to do to get a job in the future!

Do a crime, go to jail. I'll have free room and board, work to do, get new skills, and state of the art TV!

Isn't America great?

I see the rationalization on the part of the cops, but when the people on the outside world lose their jobs and everything else, I have to say NO to this. I think it's scary that prisoners get more advantages than people trying to make a living in this shithole of a society that's being re-engineered by the corporate sickness...

[Blasphemer]

56. Since he paid for it himself...

at prison wages, I have NO problem with it. He could have just as easily spent the money on junk food or cigarettes and no one would have said anything.

[RichardRay]

59. Angelus and Hypno should go to jail

if they think it's such a good deal. Since I've been there I KNOW that it would take a lot more than a 7" flat screen TV. prison doctors and prison food to make me want to go back. A lot more.

[noonwitch]

60. As long as the inmates (or their loved ones) pay for them

If it cuts down on inmates fighting over the tv, then it makes the CO's jobs easier and it is good to cut down on violence inside of prisons.

I'm wondering about power sources, though. In Michigan, inmates have to buy a specific model of tv that takes batteries, so they don't use state electricity. Is this a similar thing?

[KansDem]

61. Sure, keep them sedated...

TV is a mind-numbing tool. Letting prisoners watch it constantly would help prevent prison riots..."C'mon, Joe, we're breaking out now!!!" "Nah, there's a good 'Love Boat' re-run comin' on now. Maybe tomorrow?"