The Bush Administration's intent was to keep "torture" story secret

[kentuck]

But, thanks to Sy Hersh and a couple of GIs with consciences, the story has been blown wide open. We hear today that CBS was requested to hold off the story for a couple of weeks by General Myers. Then, just this weekend, General Myers said he had not had time to read the "report". It is being reported that this Administration knew about this report since last November but kept it secret from the press. In the story below, Paul Bremer was informed about what was going on several months ago.
===================================================================
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040503/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_politics_resignation_040503163135

<snip>
That enquiry was initiated after a US soldier in the prison stepped forward and informed the army's Criminal Investigation Division some time after November 1.


The top US commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, then ordered a full criminal and administrative investigation that led to the suspension of 17 soldiers and officers.


A third investigation is now examining whether intelligence officers or civilian contractors encouraged the abuse to weaken prisoners ahead of interrorgations.


Turki said he had also raised concerns about prisoner abuse to the International Committee of the Red Cross, but they refused to share information with him..

..more
================================================================
(my comments)
Just another stark example of how secretive this regime in the White House really is and how slow the media has been to catch on to their secret doings and undoings. But, we must ask, if Paul Bremer knew about this story in November, then surely the Commander-in-Chief also knew. Or he should have known.

Their intent was to handle the entire affair internally within the US military structure, as if the military command is somehow separate from civilian control. Through the anger, we must recognize the height of incompetency and the degree this White House will go to keep information from the people...

[mopaul]

1. that G.I. whistleblower should get a medal, but .....

...he'll probably get death threats instead

[No Mandate Here.]

3. There was a bit in a local paper the other day

saying the soldier grew up in my county.

This is an area where Freepers outnumber us about three to one, and I sure hope nothing happens.

[radwriter0555]

18. You bet, now HE is a HERO. Not that tillman guy...

that's for sure.

[Nashyra]

30. PLease don't refer to any of the our KIA soldiers

as Tillman was just refered to. Remember Tillman did not ask for the media attention that he is getting and at some point in time I think it will show that his death and the following media attention brought about a substancial change of heart about the war in Iraq. Most americans have shown that we are so selfish and consumed by self that it takes a "media darling" to make us look up and pay attention. Maybe that will be Tillman's legacy.

[environmental wakko]

34. <none>

hmmm.

[opihimoimoi]

2. Didn't Bremer eat Turkey din din w the Prez in Nov and early this year too

he had a chance to tell the Prez.... yes?

[Disturbed]

4. W didn't know?

I can almost believe that no one told him because he doesn't take bad news well. that rummy didn't know as soon as the Military got the photos is beyond any credibilty.

The Resident should apologize for this prisoner abuse and torture to to Iraqi people. I doubt that he will do so.

[bigtree]

8. Rumsfeld

Rumsfeld has not read an internal Army report that spelled out abuses at one prison in Iraq, officials said Monday, (bullshit) although they said he has kept abreast of the allegations that Iraqi prisoners have been mistreated.

Rumsfeld has been publicly silent on the controversy since it began when the CBS News' 60 Minutes II broadcast photographs taken by U.S. military guards inside the Abu Ghraib prison last fall. (What can he say that won't reveal that he gave tacit approval when he visited the prison)

The White House, mindful of the fallout, said Mr. Bush had called Rumsfeld before leaving on a campaign trip Monday and checked on the status of the Defense Department investigation. (To get their stories in line)

[bobbieinok]

37. see D Rehm show 1st hour - Hersh says responsibilty goes up to R

[KansDem]

25. Bad news for Bush?

I think Bush would have smirked and giggled while being told the atrocious news. After all, he makes fun of people he is about to put to death. And, don't forget, Saddam tried to kill his daddy!

[AlinPA]

5. Abusive soldier has Bible verse in his front yard in Uniontown.

"Sow for yourselves righteousness, reap the fruit of unfailing love..."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04125/310789.stm

[kentuck]

6. Is this a bigger story than we presently realize ?

How many legs does it have?

[leftchick]

11. Sy Hersh says so....

he said there are more witnesses and videos. I believe him.

[nolabels]

19. This is way more than just a story, these are heinous international crimes

They have a few scapegoats they claim are the perpetrators but until there is a fair and open trial Identifying the originators of this program and policy in criminal behavior. Until the time of public trial there will only lawlessness. Holding George w. Bush personally responsible for anything that happens in Iraq or elsewhere is how this how this works.

Until George W. Bush identifies someone else, has arrested and prosecutes, it will be George W. Bush personal policy. For the military in the field, who should also be as concerned, there will also be important consequences.

The vast majority of Iraq's population will become very hardened because of this. I would make only common sense that they would. In simple terms, if someone invaded your country in a totalitarian condition and shown it self to be a force to deal out inhumane practices not even fit for animals would you be able to disarm yourself and go quietly.

I am very outraged by this, and nobody should be giving this any part of a free ride or pass. You should also know we will all pay for this many times over in many ways till something is done.

Unless the US forces are able to lock down and keep every prisoner in their charge away from the outside, any and all will now be creditable at anytime they can get word out or leave the confines of detention.

The stories regardless if they are true or not will be rampant. Until a total airing of this inhumanity and the originators of it are brought to justice under the USCMJ or otherwise, the people from the US will be seen as monsters from at least in that countrys point of view.

Don't be mistaken either, this a direct assault on the peoples Iraq very culture. They will not take kindly to this, and is offense in a very pure sense.

[taquinas101]

31. Top 10 Right Wing Responses To Torture Photographs!

Out of curiosity, I tuned into Laura Ingraham and Fox News, and heard some of the following explainations that consist of variations of the following themes:

1. Justification: The torture constitutes normal interrogation techniques, and this is a war;
2. Minimization: This is an isolated incident and the pictures were taken so that they could merely threaten future prisoners without having to engage in further torture.
3. Change-the-topic: Why is the liberal media attacking out military?!?!?! Where was the liberal media when so-and-so terrorists blew up bus/car/traffic sign?!?!?!
4. We-Are-Civilized-By-Comparison: These incidents pale in comparison to the torture and abuse that was perpetrated under Hussein/Hitler.
5. Ad Hominem: Why do you hate America?!?!?
6. Demonization: These soldiers are bad seeds who will be promptly punished.
7. Mismanagement: These soldiers did not mean any harm, but they were poorly trained and understaffed.
8. Denial: The photographs are fake/doctored!
9. Bureaucratic Vagueness: The torture was the result of mismanagement and lack of leadership.
10. Legalistic: The indicidents do not technically constitute "torture" because blah-blah-blah.

I'm sure more will be added as the week progresses. Feel free to add more.

[nolabels]

33. She or whatever right wing fascist there is can say what ever they like

Condoning it and supporting people that think its justified, or even if they think it justified themselves is what they have been programed to do, just like Pavlov's dogs. In real military terms there is not any justification for it, and is actually a hindrance to it. Regardless or not for any good reason for the U.S. military being in Iraq this does not serve the U.S. well. It will not make the U.S military's job any easier.

This policy is also a demonstration that all and any means of resistance is warranted because the other side is doing the same. These arm chair generals and Jesus robot cops might also like to feel that they can think and do as they want. This attitude will not change how the rest of the world perceives them. The sources for information and the leaders of the rest of the world are not the same as ours in the U.S. It is in fact counter productive for them to carry out these policies.

Regardless of these so called righteous people being able to own up on their personal or collective denial of what is taking place will not matter also. It is a simple fact when you get a majority of people against you, no matter from what pool you draw from, they will eventually co-opt you and your kind or they will eliminate you.

The three choices of these so called righteous people is to win over hearts and minds, kill enough of them to make them frightened or just eliminate or kill enough of them to change the outcome. I see no way they could any one of the three, singularly or in combination with any efficiently. You also must remember this is not the only wrong and immoral thing done over there. In essence this is where their denial kicks in

[nostamj]

23. read today's Krugman

there's a thread on it. the interrogators were privatized

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/04/opinion/04KRUG.html

[Bandit]

27. Were the Private Contracters cleared for TOP SECRET information?

Did all of these private contracters who were in on the interrogation cleared for Top Secret Information. That is what is usually obtained from POWs. It is all about National Security or at least Military Security and we now entrust that to hired civilians (Mercenaries). Is this a breach of security also?

[dsc]

7. of course they did

I would be shocked if they didn't. And the rationale isn't even all that bad, for once. CBS chose to keep the story under wraps so they apparently bought into the rationale.

[kentuck]

9. And what was the rationale ?

I haven't heard.

[dsc]

10. It would have inflamed Flaluga (sp)

and may have caused harm to the hostages then being held.

[kentuck]

12. Yes, that explains why they wanted CBS to hold back but why....

did htey keep it secret from all the press from November til Fallujah time??

[Nihil]

38. "Wait until the British media has broken the story"?

Interesting how the "tidier" version involving British troops broke so
soon afterwards ... wonder if the Mirror was supposed to break this
earlier so that the US reports would be "also rans" beside the initial
UK situation?

I bet there would be even less outrage in America if the story about
the US soldiers had *followed* that about the UK soldiers rather than
preceded it ...

[Iceburg]

14. They wanted the press to hold off long

enough to:
a) decimate Fallajah and retreat safely
b) organized "the abused" prisoners into a corner of
Abu Ghraib compounf then pumel it with morters .
Recall 21 prisoners were killed, dozens of other
prisoners wounded -- but NOT ONE GUARD OR STAFFER
injured in that incident.


Yes, there is indeed more to this story.

[Tinoire]

13. This is why they were shooting journalists and wanted Jazeera out

Al-Jazeera was reporting the truth about the slaughter and getting information out about the torture.

The torture is why Fallujah exploded in the first place and went after mercenaries and such.

=====================

03 05 2004 (Note the date)

The newspaper reminds that militants attacked the (Abu Ghraib) prison several days ago. 22 prison guards and inmates were killed and 51 injured. The reason for this was probably a leaflet that can be seen on the outside of the prison's wall...similar leaflets are now appearing in many mosques in Baghdad...cry for help from the hostages of that Iraqi prison...

«We are held in the northern sector. Attack this prison and put an end to our disgrace, and if you cannot do this for the love of the Most High, tell someone who can stick up for us or give us some 'Bahe Maneh al-Hamel'. May Allah and Iraqi patriots put an end to our tortures». 'Bahe Maneh al-Hamel' is the Arab for 'contraceptive pills'.

The women detained in Abu Ghraib are feeling ashamed when they evasively tell about the desperate situation that they are in (which any Eastern woman would experience in the conditions of constant violence committed by prison guards, new Iraqi policemen and the Americans). Any Muslim who read this message will feel his blood curdle from indignation.

<snip>

One of the Iraqis working on a contract with the US administration told La Stampa about one of such terrible episodes. He says that almost 2,500 inmates are held in that prison. The prison is divided into 4 sections. 600 inmates are women. One of them is a bank teller from Baghdad. She was put in jail in January for financial fraud. She could only be released on bail. The family collected $15,000 and this person was sent to discuss the details of release. When he saw her in a room, she had a big stomach. She was sobbing and telling that she was raped by Iraqi prison guards and American soldiers each night, and she does not want to get out of the prison. She told not to say anything to her relatives, because if she returns to Baghdad she will die from shame. :mad:

The same person said that two women already hung themselves in their cells. Another woman gave a birth in confinement. The newborn baby was a mulatto. Allegedly, the US military authorities conducted an internal investigation, but no guilty have been found.

Amnesty International is calling on the complex investigation of all cases of violence against the inmates in Iraq.

<snip>

http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/article.php?id=2730

[Solly Mack]

15. The military..and Bush Inc..would have covered this up if they

had been able to do so. They will still try and minimize what took place. They'll also punish the whistle-blowers at the first available opportunity. The military will charge them with having contra-band, if nothing else. It's illegal under military law to take pictures inside a military prison. So it wouldn't surprise me if the very thing that exposed the crimes will be used against those who did the telling.

If Bremer knew..yeah, Bush knew. And yes, there has to be more to this story than anyone is yet telling.

The military mentality is always directed toward the "internal" matter. If it happens with the military-it's not the civilian worlds business, is the thinking.

It's one of the reason the military will punish the soldier for the actions of the spouse. They, they being the military, can't touch the spouse for speaking out...so they attack the soldier instead.

Events such as abuse of POW's/detainess is the business of the American people-it's also the business of the world.

It took the military a year to inform Evan's family how he actually died. Some of you will recall that Evan's was the name of the soldier that died in my husband's company last May.

I won't say it's the "nature of the beast" because it doesn't have to be this way. It's because a fear exist that someone, somewhere, will find something out...but that fear only exist because someone, somewhere, is hiding something.

[kentuck]

16. I agree, Solly Mack...

They would have concealed it forever if they could have...

[Iceburg]

21. They ALL knew in the fall of 2003, and I would venture to say

they expected to happen "as a consequence of war" -- the war they had yet to declare on Iraq.

That is why Bush refused to sign on to the ICC in July 2002.

U.S. WILL NOT SIGN ON TO INTERNATIONAL
CRIMINAL COURT, BUSH SAYS
Date: July 2, 2002

President Bush says the United States will not sign on to the International Criminal Court (ICC) because as the nation works to build peace around the world its diplomats and soldiers could be dragged "into this court and that's very troubling."

He spoke July 2 with reporters who accompanied him as he toured a local church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin to promote his domestic agenda.

Bush said the United States is working at the United Nations towards ending the stalemate over the ICC that could jeopardize the U.N. peacekeeping mission in Bosnia.

"We'll try to work out the impasse, but the one thing we're not going to do is sign on to this International Criminal Court," Bush said.

"President Clinton signed this treaty, but when he signed it he said it should not be submitted to the Senate," Bush told reporters. "It therefore never has been, and I don't intend to submit it either."

The new International Criminal Court came into force on July 1, 2002.

more ...
http://www.useu.be/Categories/Justice%20and%20Home%20Affairs/July0202ICCCourtUSBush.html

[kentuck]

22. And how many times have the Joint Chiefs testified before Congress?

...and kept this information under their hats? Heads should roll at the top of ht military, starting with that Bush lapdog, General Myers.

[Solly Mack]

24. I'd say you are correct

they expected to act in certain ways, so they knew they couldn't sign on to the ICC...making them even more guilty of everything to come.

[pinto]

17. anyone remember when Bremer was stateside for "consultations"

seems if he saw the Pres or Rummy after November he would have mentioned prison "situation".....

[kentuck]

20. A caller to C-SPAN asked the question:

If Saddam Hussein was responsible for the atrocities committed by his forces, wouldn't George W Bush be responsible for the actions of his troops also???? (And the caller was in the military, he said)

[gratuitous]

26. Gee, why did Gen. Myers want the media to sit on the report?

I mean, if he didn't know what was going on because he still hasn't read the report of what happened four months ago, how did he know to ask CBS to hold the story back?

{Sniff, sniff} Nope, something smells decidedly rotten here.

[Junkdrawer]

28. I'm sure the good General won't mind throwing his career away...

to defend Rummy and Wolfie. Powell did it, why not Myers?

[randr]

29. One of the retired Generals that CNN pulls out of it hat

this morning made a comment on an old military adage, something like "There are not bad soldiers, only bad leaders". He went on to infer that this situation reaches to the WH and all in command.
It is amazing how this parallels the lead up to 9/11 with no one admitting that they heard a thing and no one in control to accept responsibility.

[jackstraw45]

32. And let's bet NO senior officials will lose their jobs AGAIN

just like after 9/11.

This criminal cabal of an administration must go.

[bobthedrummer]

35. The neo-conservative dominated military think tanks hated President

Clinton. Here's Revolution in Political and Military Affairs/RPMA from USAF INSS October 1996 a study in the efficacy of military coup.
http://www.guerrillacampaign.com/coup.htm

[keithyboy]

36. You bet they were covering this up. Rummy's statements prove it!

How can we look ourselves in the mirror?

[LibertyorDeath]

39. Hersh was on Charlie Rose tonite along with ex CIA, the producer

from 60 M2 and a Prof of Middle East studies.

(NOT verbatim)

The Prof said this If the Americans have been torturing IRAQI women in that prison then it will be a catastrophey for the USA in the Middle East this would be viewed as so far over the line that there would be no coming back from it.

In response Sy Hersh said it's worse much worse that they have a section
of the prison for Juveniles ( male & female I presume) he did not clarify, but he strongly intimated they have been torturing teenagers at this prison.

Wonk has a link in Media to the Show

Link http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x8618