Immigration lowers American wages (American workers lose $1,700/yr)

[dumpster_baby]

This report by Harvard University's George Borjas confirmed what many people already know--that immigration is flooding the labor supply market and is the main reason why wages are significantly lower now in real terms than they were 20 years ago.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

WASHINGTON -- Two decades of growth in the supply of immigrant workers cost native-born American men an average $1,700 in annual wages by 2000, a top economist has concluded.
....

Earlier this year, President Bush announced his own massive overhaul for immigration that would offer temporary legal status to workers now here and open the door for greater numbers of "willing workers" from abroad to take temporary jobs in America.

In his report, Borjas suggests that one effect of such proposals would be to depress wage growth for Americans at all levels of education and job skills.

...

"The reduction in earnings occurs regardless of whether the immigrants are legal or illegal, permanent or temporary," said Borjas, an immigrant from Cuba. "It is the presence of additional workers that reduces wages, not their legal status."


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2547816

And American workers just keep getting slammed -- if it isn't enough that Bush is doing his best to reduce wages through increased immigration flooding the labor supply, it turns out that the Democrats in Congress are even today planning to launch comprehensive legislation to legalize immigrant workers already here and allow an increased flow of legal, temporary foreign workers. Ouch!

[radwriter0555]

1. If wages are so much lower, then why are cos shipping jobs out of the

country?

Hey, let's make MORE people hate the people who's ancestors are the original inhabitants of this hemisphere!

People seem to forget far too often that Mexicans are native americans and have far more right to be here than white european colonial descendants...

Just cause some silly white folks put up a border doesn't mean the natural migratory patterns of the peoples indigenous to this continent should be destroyed.

[slaveplanet]

2. where was the reference

to mexicans...did I miss something in the above article??

seems to me he is outlining the war on the middle class which no-one can deny. Sounds to me that the low wages that his family was willing to work for in this land of opportunity when they first arrived, now are unacceptable to the next generation of his family now that they've acheived some wealth and stability, and it is becoming clear to him that unchecked immigration is a threat to that stability. He should have also included prison slave labor, outsourcing & the undermining of union gains for a more complete picture of the slippery slope we are now on. Which I believe is the total elite globalist strategy to plunge the world into complete submission and acheive the perfect slaveplanet.

[dumpster_baby]

3. yep, and the politically correct among us just keep eating up the ....

....corporate media globalist propaganda. THey pound into the heads of Americans that if you want to stop or slow down immigration, you are a racist.

Some many people just buy right into that globalist meme....

I imagine that pretty soon they will float a meme centered around the idea that if you are against outsourcing, them you are a racist.

[radwriter0555]

7. oh come on, we all know WHO they mean! ANYONE with brown skin, but

mostly, our Mexican neighbors.

Why pretend? What's the point?

This is veiled racism at its finest, so let's not pretend it's anything, ok?

We all know what's really happening here... it's silly to pretend otherwise.

[dumpster_baby]

11. you must be eating up that propaganda with a ladle!

Either that or you are rich, and don't need that extra $1700. Because ALL the immigrants that **I** know, THEY wish immigration would be throttled down a lot, so they could make a better living. They understand supply and demand, plus, they aint rich....

[radwriter0555]

21. oh the IMMIGRANTS want to stop immigration? now THAT is rich...

I give you credit, that is a new argument.

It's the WILDEST justification I've ever seen -- THE IMMIGRANTS want to STOP immigration?

Where do you get this stuff? What immigrants do YOU know?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ithacan]

5. yes, scapegoat the immigrants for economic distress,

rather than the corporations and their political puppets, who are the real villains.

Let's also ignore the fact that the US corporations are imposing policies onto countries like Mexico that bankrupt their middle classes in order to open them up to exploitation, which in turn causes increased joblessness in Mexico and other developing countries.

Yeah, this is a real balanced article isn't it... :eyes:

[w4rma]

25. Yup. I oppose lax immgration policies, but this is scapegoating, imho (nt)

[dumpster_baby]

27. results of longterm studies by phd economists is "scapegoating"?

How the heck are we supposed to do ANYTHING if as soon as someone tries to do anything, they get labeled as a scapegoater, a bigot, just for academic research?!

[bigtree]

6. Immigrants add to our economy

Immigrants and their children raise the incomes of American workers by $10 billion each year. Immigrants pay $80,000 more in taxes than they receive in total benefits over their lifetimes. http://www.immigrationforum.org/pubs/articles/economy2001.htm

Adult, foreign-born, naturalized citizens actually have higher adjusted gross incomes (averaging $40,502) than families with U.S.-born citizens only ($35,249). Federal taxes paid by families with a naturalized citizen average $6,580 per year compared with $5,070 for U.S.-born-only families.

Businesses founded by immigrants are a source of substantial economic and fiscal gain for U.S. citizens. Ten high-tech firms founded by immigrants, generated $28 billion in revenues in 1996. These and other businesses started by immigrants add at least another $29 billion to the total amount of taxes paid by immigrants.

More than 60,000 active military personnel are immigrants. Immigrants account for five percent or more of active duty enlisted personnel in some branches of the military.

[radwriter0555]

8. Well said, thank you.... we all know the anti-immigration rants ARE

nothing but veiled reasons to hate anyone NOT white, european and colonial.

[BeFree]

10. Good shots, all

This anti-human attack on immigrants has been roundly defeated by ya'll, and it makes me proud of DU to see the idea get blasted away so quickly.

The idea that immigrants are to blame is nothing more than divide and conquer tactics. Divide the working men and set them fighting amongst themselves while the upper classes slink off with the capital.

Whoever started this thread oughtta be ashamed of itself.

[AntiLempa]

9. Borjas the bigot

A quick websearch on George Borjas reveals a little about him. He is featured on VDare.com and National Review (Here's a link to my search http://a9.com/George%20Borjas ). For those that don't know, VDare. com is a project of the center for American Unity. From their homepage "The Center is concerned with what has been called the National Question - whether the United States can survive as a nation-state, the political expression of a distinct American people, in the face of these emerging threats: mass immigration, multiculturalism, multilingualism, and affirmative action."

VDare has also been listed as a Hate Site by the Southern Poverty Law Center. For more info on VDare.com, check out this article http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=152.

You're right, that article does reinforce what we already know, but it's not that immigration lowers our wages. It's that the class warriors will stop at nothing to distract us from the truth. The distribution of welath is disgusting, but instead of blaming the corporate pirates that are pillaging the rest of us, we blame the immigrants that are working 80+ hours a week at a dead end job.

[dumpster_baby]

12. mass immigration is a MAJOR PART of the class war

Mass immigration is a major tool for the redistribution of wealth from the working class to the investor/business owner class.

Are you lot familiar AT ALL with the law of supply and demand?!

[AZCat]

14. How does the law of supply and demand apply to the redist...

What is your argument for the law of supply and demand working to redistribute wealth from the working class to the investor/business owner class?

[dumpster_baby]

15. I can hardly BELIEVE I have to spell it for someone!

OK, look, among the rich (or richer) people and the poor (or poorer) people, who makes a living selling labor, and who makes a living buying labor?

Answer--rich people buy labor for a living, and poor people sell their labor for a living. THe VAST majority of people SELL their labor for a living.

When the supply of a good or service increases, it brings down the price of that good or service.

When mass immigration brings in millions of people who sell their labor, does that increase or decrease the supply of labor?

If it increases it, which it obviously does, then the price of labor goes down. Guess who benefits from that? The rich people. So, what happens is that the rich people get to KEEP MORE of their money than they would have if mass immigration had never happened; likewise, the poor people get less money for selling labor.

Thus, we have a redistribution of money, FROM the poor people TO the rich people.

Yes, OBVIOUSLY, there are other factors involved in why the standard of living has decreased for Americans. Globalization, outsourcing, etc.

And if it were not for advances in technology, it would have gone down even more. What the class war as implemented by mass immigration and globalization has done is steal from Americans the benefits of the better technology.

[AZCat]

16. But doesn't demand for labor go up also?

Since "mass immigration brings in millions of people", doesn't that also increase the number of consumers, hence requiring more labor to produce the goods for those consumers?

I don't know how the increase in demand for labor interacts with the increase in supply of labor. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Note: I ask questions because I want to learn. If you know something, I will ask you to 'spell it out' because I don't have the greatest 'thinking machine'. Thanks for your efforts.

[dumpster_baby]

18. who demands more in goods and services?

An american is making 35K/year, and then is fired so that the owner of the business (he BUYS labor for a living!) could hire a desparate 3rd world immigrant who will do that job for 20K. Who would demand more services and goods? The 35K American, or the 20K immmigrant? You tell me!

Also, the situation is not even allowed to reach an equilibrium point: the supply of new immigrants continues to increase every year! If you stopped immigration, the immigrant who was making 20K would increase his wages because he could demand it. But with a virtually unlimited supply of immigration, wages are continually forced down.

And our nice Dem and GOP friends are helping the process along....

[AZCat]

19. But doesn't demand increase because...

Now the US labor pool is producing goods and services for both the American and the immigrant? So isn't more than one job required to provide for that increased demand for goods and services?

That's what I don't get- if I understand it correctly, you can't just replace all the American workers with immigrant workers, because that influx of new consumers means there must be more jobs to provide all the goods and services for them. I understand that someone making 35K/yr can consume more than someone making 20K/yr, but I don't think it's a direct swap.

[radwriter0555]

22. The standard of living has decreased? Due to IMMIGRANTS???

dude seriously, what are you smoking?

The US still, in spite of the 3 years of endeavors by the racist, eugenicist hitler-esque bush regime, remains as one of the wealthiest and most prosperous countries.

We DO have enough to share, if the greedy one percenters like bush, cheney weren't so greedy and sending all our tax dollars to slaughter iraqis for halliburtons' gains.

We should be doing far more to enrich the lives of those less fortunate who come to America to live better lives and to share that ultimate American dream.

We need to provide far better housing, health care and education for immigrants and our own Americans, so that ALL of us, regardless whether we're new or native, are presented with the same opportunities for success.

Far better to endeavor to achieve THAT goal, than to divide, split, engender hate and bitterness towards each other.

[mhr]

13. "Cheap Labor Conservatives" Says It All!

eom

[dumpster_baby]

17. Yes, but why are the Democrats moving to increase immigration?

Polls even show that Hispanics want less immigration.

[w4rma]

26. I agree with you that this is part of the problem. (nt)

[AZCat]

20. Interesting report from the BLS here...

I was looking for info regarding the dialogue between dumpster_baby and myself (see previous posts) and I saw this on the Bureau of Labor Statistics web site.

link to abstract: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2002/05/art1abs.htm

Abstract

May 2002, Vol. 125, No. 5

The role of foreign-born workers in the U. S. economy

Abraham T. Mosisa
Economist, Division of Labor Force Statistics, Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Email: [e-mail]

Foreign-born workers have come to play an increasingly important role in the U.S. economy; between 1996 and 2000, they constituted nearly half of the net increase in the U.S. labor force

Note: go to link above to download the entire article as a pdf.

[slaveplanet]

23. heres an interesting stat

Change of foriegn born as a percent of change in total

1996-2000

operators , fabricators , laborers + 632.4%

am I reading that right

[dumpster_baby]

24. opinion polls, facts, etc

http://www.npg.org/factsheets/imm_americans_spoken.html
http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-text/who-hurt.html