Time for some crow.

[LibertyorDeath]

I've have nothing but derision for those here that attacked me.
You know who you are, time for some crow MF........


When I stated the obvious the other day that the Torture of Iraqi prisoners was more than just a few bad apples in the American Military.
That by its design all Military's attract more than their fair share of Sadists. This was not directed at any of the decent Honorable men & women that can be found in the Military it was an observation about those that join the Military for the wrong reason(s) ie they get to kill people legally.

So this is for those special people here that can not or will not see beyond the box. Enjoy...... and give your Fu%&ing head a shake.


"I think for the country's sake, we need to know if this scandal is going to get any worse because we're taking a beating worldwide, And if so, who is the evildoer here?"


HERSH: First of all, it's going to get much worse. This kind of stuff was much more widespread. I can tell you just from the phone calls I've had in the last 24 hours, even more, there are other photos out there. There are many more photos even inside that unit. There are videotapes of stuff that you wouldn't want to mention on national television that was done. There was a lot of problems.

There was a special women's section. There were young boys in there. There were things done to young boys that were videotaped. It's much worse. And the Maj. Gen. Taguba was very tough about it. He said this place was riddled with violent, awful actions against prisoners.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118955,00.html

[bobbieinok]

1. on FOX??? - it's freezing in hell, right???

[LibertyorDeath]

3. Yeah I hate to link there but it's where HERSH is serving it up.

[Hubert Flottz]

8. I loved it!

I missed O'Reallys spinning and the guy bursting the puke's bubble!

[bobbieinok]

2. Hersh talked abt horrific things done to young boys on D Rehm show

[LibertyorDeath]

5. No more details necessary I've read all I need to know.

[bobbieinok]

4. O'Reilly show???? and so few interruptions, talkovers, wow!?!?!?

[Az]

6. They were taking direction from Mercs

Tell me how the Mercs got there and how they were put in as directors for this operation. It goes deeper. Its endemic. It matches all of Bushcos operations. Smiley happy faces up front. Secretive hidden activities doing the actual work behind the scenes. From the energy commission to Guantanemo Bushco keeps its operations dark. This is just another part of their company.

[AlCzervik]

7. This whole thing is so

bad and far worse than it appears. the soldiers of course will get all the blame when in fact the cia is all over this. Stuff is gonna start leaking ala pentagon papers. I would never excuse the behavior of these soldiers but i think this incident is small part of a far larger and widespread diseased policy. It was a soldier that blew one of the whistles. Rumsfeld and wolfowitz should have been shitcanned months ago and where is Tenet on all this?

[Redleg]

9. I'm not gonna eat crow for that.

I defended the "honor" of our military men and women but I never attacked you or your right to say what I believe is incorrect. Now, it does come down to a matter of opinions rather than facts.

Neither you or I can empirically demonstrate that the proportion of "sadists" in the military is statistically higher than in the non-military adult population. We have no way of testing that hypothesis. I do not disagree that there are probably sadistic people in the military (as there probably are in the non-military adult popultation). I simply believe that sadists make up a small part of the military.

Because all human behavior is a function of dispositional factors (personality, preferences, cognitive variables, etc) and situational factors, it does not suffice to say the abuse of prisoners in Iraq is due simply to "sadistic" tendencies or disorders. One must consider aspects of the situation as well. It is likely that intensely strong situations, such as war, have an influence on human behavior well beyond the influence of dispositions alone. A person's behavior is likely the result of an interaction of dispositional and situational factors.

To make a long thesis short- I am not going to eat crow. You have a stereotype about sadists wanting to the join the military to kill people. That may or may not be a correct assumption. On the face it might be appealing to laypeople but under the surface it may be much more complex. As a behavioral scientist I tend to reject simplistic explanations for behavior.

Consider the research program of Stanley Milgram who studied obediance to authority. Milgram found that seemingly normal, well-adjusted people behaved badly when put into a situation where they were mildly pressured by an authority person.

[LibertyorDeath]

10. It is not a hypothesis

"Neither you or I can empirically demonstrate that the proportion of "sadists" in the military is statistically higher than in the non-military adult population. We have no way of testing that hypothesis"

It is logic & common sense that should tell you this if it doesn't

then you're sol....

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Not just Milgram.

Remember the Zimbardo prisoner/guard studies. His essential discovery was that under some cirgumstances the majority of supposedly normal people will go along with unacceptable behavior toward the people in thier charge

[Redleg]

13. Yes, I was just thinking about Zimbardo yesterday.

I neglected to mention it in my post. The amazing thing about Zimbardo's findings was how quickly the subjects acting as prison guards adopted the stereotypical abusive role behaviors.

[Skittles]

15. as a veteran

I would have to agree with Redleg.

[placton]

11. Sadly, my friend, you are right.

Let's face it - despite all the "hero" accolades for "our brave troops," remember these folks were/are so pro-Shrub the GOP "kept the polls open a little longer" in FLA in 2000 for their votes.

There are many good people in the military, but there are a huge number of assholes, and right wing to the extreme. And perhaps we need that kind of person in the military.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Think: That redneck next door has a real gun, and vengeance to take - that's today's soldier.

[newyorican]

14. Except...

the "good ones" damn themselves minute by minute as they standby and do not LOCK UP the offenders and the appropriate chain-of-command. Gen. Sanchez belongs in leg irons, next to Rummy, Meyers and Commander codpiece. That is the chain-of-command, yes? A fish doesn't start to rot a the bottom, no?