OMG. Aaron Brown just said - 3,000 Medivac flights

[Imalittleteapot]

out of Iraq, carrying 40,000 wounded soldiers. I am outraged and a little sick in the stomach. I had no idea that the injured numbers were so high.

[buff2]

1. No wonder they want to keep this all so secret

This is awful.

[WFF]

2. I wonder how many died since leaving Iraq?

From what I understand, soldiers who die after being medivaced out are not counted in the death tolls.

[Imalittleteapot]

4. Brown said that none died on the planes.

That's all I know. They don't count deaths outside of Iraq caused by injuries from the war, err attack? You just added more pain to the story.

[WFF]

16. Sorry

:(

[Sticky]

55. Patients are boarded from Germany, not Iraq

I assume the patients must be in stable condition before making the trip back to the US.

[revcarol]

3. They're wearing out their planes much faster than they figured.

40,000? God help us!!

Wisconsinforfreedom: did you see that horrible report that doctors are med-evacing brain-injured and brain-dead people back to the States so that their families can hold their hands while they die? A LOT of severe brain injuries on people that will never recover,,,they are so discouraged at "saving" people who will NEVER have a life with half a brain.

[bobbieinok]

34. link??

[revcarol]

57. See today's Democracy Now.

Chief neurosurgeon from Landstuhl. Also WaPo article about 1 week back.Terrible brain and eye injuries from bombs on the road which push up damage to the face and head not covered by body armor. Helmets don't help because the blast is coming from below. He has never seen such injuries.

"We need to open the checkbook for VA hospitals NOW." Direct quote from this doctor.

Or do you mean planes wearing out. Heard a Congressman say that one of the reasons for the new $25 Billion is that equipment wearing out much faster than they figured, parts in short supply. Of course that is one dumb excuse because they couldn't get new planes by Nov.

[Bonobo]

5. Are you f**king serious? Really? Aaron reported that?

I missed it! Is that being reported elsewhere? Anyone have any sources? If that number is correct, it sounds to me like an order of magnitude more than most Murikans would be willing to accept IMHO.

[Imalittleteapot]

8. I couldn't believe what I heard so did a playback on

TIVO. Those are the #s. Hell yes. This is more than most Americans bargained for. Now, I'm wondering - how many Iraqis have died and how many injured?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Ok folks that is FOUR FULL COMBAT DIVISIONS

We have ten, and five have been declared non fit for duty.

Look at this from the Point of View of Natioal Defense... we have
NO strategic depth

[MissB]

7. Interesting analysis.... can you explain something for me?

Why do you say that five have been declared non fit for duty? Is that five different than the equivalent four represented by the 40,000 injured?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Units coming back are far from full strenth and

under duress the troops cannot go back to that hell any time soon.

Waht I am sayhing is... the strategic situation for the US is even worst than it was on December 8th, 1941.

Only reaosn NOBODY has attacked us is... the Nuclear Umbrella....


My GOD, what has Bush done?

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Units coming back are far from full strenth and

under duress the troops cannot go back to that hell any time soon.

Waht I am sayhing is... the strategic situation for the US is even worst than it was on December 8th, 1941.

Only reaosn NOBODY has attacked us is... the Nuclear Umbrella....


My GOD, what has Bush done?

[revcarol]

13. I thought a combat division was 20,000 soldiers,

because Kerry says that he wants to add 2 divisions to the authorized strength of the army, 40,000 more.

And this probably includes not only wounded, but sick soldiers, some of whom will return to duty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. It is from 10K to 20K

Usually light infantry are 10K, armored are 20K due to the support staff needed for maintainance and support.

God what has Bush done!

I am sick, I swear.... 40K troops... My LORD!

We knew they were under reporting the numbers, now we must ask, why is CNN now covering this? They jsut shot down the 4K official number... and we have no idea how many have come from Afghanistan

[flamingyouth]

9. What's the REAL number?

If this is what CNN is reporting, it's got to be way worse in reality.:-(

[countmyvote4real]

12. Can you imagine the number if "God wasn't on our side?"

If there is a "God" he would have smited (or is it smote) this unelected asshole impostor a long time ago. Either way, our moral ground is quicksand.

[madmax]

15. Is this possible??

40k??? Maybe 4,000.

[revcarol]

18. 3000 flights with 1.33 persons per flight?

If indeed there were 3000 flights, 40000 seems more likely.

Did he say where he got his figures? Maybe a senior doctor or medical administrator tired of seeing maimed bodies? Maybe a senior logistics person worried about where they will get the money to continue the flights? WHO?

[Iceburg]

51. the 1.3 is correct -- many have left their limbs in Iraq

[Minstrel Boy]

19. In December, UPI reported nearly 11,000 total medivacs,

according to Pentagon data.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20031217-032344-8720r

[madmax]

20. OMG This war has turned into such a mess.

They lied about everything to get their war on and I don't believe the American people - for the most part have a freakin clue what it's costing us. :cry:

[HFishbine]

53. It's possible

Brown was reporting 8,000 medivaced out of Iraq a year ago. (1)

The DOD however, reports total wounded through March as 3466. (2)

Something's not right.

1) http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0312/24/asb.00.html

2) http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

[riverwalker]

17. Have them ask Rumsfeld on Friday

when he is before the panel. What the real numbers of wounded are.
http://armed-services.senate.gov/members.htm

[maggrwaggr]

21. gee, if they were naked this might make the news

the only reason the "torture story" is big news is because its sexual.

This country is so fucked up.

[LittleApple81]

23. My opinion exactly. Somebody had asked about dead Iraqi babies

not being shown and you have the answer.

[not systems]

24. Your exactly right naked people and human depravity serial killing ...

and rape are the prime time news fair for the average
American that is why this story has legs.

Minus the naked people it would have gone nowhere.

The good thing about this story is it kicks the legs
out from under the lie that we are their to stop abuse.

That was the primary pillar of liberal support for this debacle.

[calimary]

46. Yeah, sick, isn't it?

They don't care about killing. They don't care about war and death and violence and maiming and destruction. But SEX! Shit!

Probably why folks of this ilk tend also to be "pro-life." They hate the idea of women having choices about what happens with their bodies - because it stems from SEX! Shit!

Never mind what Clinton did or did not do. They tried eleven-kajillion different ways to get him and finally snagged him on Monica - SEX! Shit!

Maybe this hasn't been an issue for bush because Laura looks as though it's been a mighty long time since she had any SEX! Shit!

And yes, maggrwaggr, this country is pretty fucked up. Even as I write this, I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

[harmonyguy]

22. Transcript is up - Link 40000 Patients !!!!!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Since the war began, there have been 3,000 of these flights, 40,000 patients. They haven't lost one yet.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0405/05/asb.00.html

[oblivious]

25. This fills me with anger.

CNN and the other warmongering media are to blame for every one of these injuries and deaths. They sold this war. Everyone who supported this war is guilty.

Could Iraqi injuries be 10 times this?

[troublemaker]

32. Iraqi injuries

The low KIA figures for our troops are due to vehicular armor, body armor and incredible medical care. Iraqis are much likelier to die from serious wounds, so the Iraqi proportion of killed to wounded is much higher than ours.

[calimary]

47. The odd thing, for me, now, is that every time I look at some anchor

or reporter or pundit, I wonder if it's him or her who was quoted by Joseph Wilson as saying the reason why nobody writes or reports anything bad about bush is because they've been threatened, and he/she has two kids in private school and a mortgage to pay. And I wonder, every time I look at one of these folks, are YOU the one with the two kids and the mortgage?

[oblivious]

50. Yeah, when I say media, I don't mean reporters and anchors

If they don't write what they're told, they're gone. I mean the people who decide who gets airtime, whose columns get space, what gets on the front page, and how the headlines are worded.

[Oilwellian]

26. More from the Transcript

Thanks for posting it. This is unbelievable.

BROWN: In a week when we've talked a good deal about bad apples in Iraq, it is time to talk of angels. We found these angels on a clunky airplane filled from ceiling to floor with the wounded of the Iraq war. They travel from Iraq to Germany and then on to Washington, the beginnings for many of a very long road back to health.

At every mile they travel, they're watched over and tended to by medics and nurses and doctors who have seen too much to be unchanged by a war that is still just a year old.

NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen made the journey with them this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirteen hundred hours, Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. On approach, the day's medical evacuation flight from downrange, a C-141 Starlifter bringing in sick and wounded troops from Iraq. CAPT. DAN LEGERE, MEDICAL CREW DIRECTOR: We continuously move patients out of theater. The patients that we see, most of them have trauma of one type or another from their battle injuries.

NISSEN: The war wounded, almost 20 on this flight, are all floated on to buses that will take them to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, the big Army hospital nearby. The plane is immediately reconfigured for the next medevac flight to carry another set of sick and wounded troops from Landstuhl to military hospitals in the U.S. for more surgery, treatment, long-term rehab.

SMSGT. RICKY SMITH, PRIMARY LOADMASTER: These kids, they've done their job. And it is our job to make sure they get back to medical attention and get put back together, if you will.

NISSEN: Seventeen hundred hours: 37 patients loaded on to the plane for the long flight to the U.S. Their injuries are typical of those carried on medevac flights, especially in the last five weeks, gunshot wounds to the chest and abdomen, legs and arms fractured in mortar blasts, eyes ruptured by shrapnel. Two patients are in critical condition, both with spinal chord injuries. One is on a ventilator.

[Minstrel Boy]

28. Get your shit together fast, America, before you lose a generation.

"Their injuries are typical of those carried on medevac flights, especially in the last five weeks, gunshot wounds to the chest and abdomen, legs and arms fractured in mortar blasts, eyes ruptured by shrapnel. Two patients are in critical condition, both with spinal chord injuries. One is on a ventilator."

Even in a just cause, this would be hard news. That the cause is a lie and a crime against peace, should be too much to bear. So don't.

[Fleshdancer]

27. 40,000. what....the....hell?

speechless.

[VolcanoJen]

29. I saw Aaron's show. Excellent segment, but when he said 40,000...

... my jaw absolutely dropped.

40,000 soldiers suffered wounds that required them to be med-evac'd to the United States? Is that what he's really saying? When he said it, it was almost as though he didn't understand the gravity of that number. He was just trying to get to the "... and they haven't lost a soldier yet" line.

40,000...? Does Lunaville even have a number that big?

[TahitiNut]

45. That's the highest wounded-to-death ratio I've ever heard.

40,000::750? That's really hard to believe. That would make me believe that either the number of wounded is inflated for some reason or the number of deaths is very understated. Over 45::1? That's absurd.

Viet Nam had 153,300 wounded to 58,200 deaths, or less than 3::1.
Korea had 103,000 wounded to 35,000 deaths, or about 3::1.
WW2 had 671,000 wounded to 407,000 deaths, or about 3::2.

A ratio of 45::1 is insane. (It can't be over 4-5,000. After all, some wounded are treated in Iraq.)

[Iceburg]

52. Not all the deaths have been reported

just the ones that die on the battlefield and probably not all of them. We will not know the truth until * is removed from office.

There has been a virtual news black-out in the US since W was sworn in --

Conflicting stories abound ...
A source in Cyprus, claims 5,000 dead bodies of British and American soldiers from the war in Afghanistan are secretly hidden in a military facility.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2004/042704secretlyhidden.htm


http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/cmnews/2003/03-03-27.cmnews.html#01

[lcooksey]

54. We're getting better and better at keeping people alive

Remember the reports from a week or two ago about brain injuries? A soldier with a fatal head wound who would have died in WW2 or Vietnam within minutes or hours can now be kept alive long enough to be flown home to his family. That person would be counted as wounded on a medivac flight. Same thing with other very serious injuries. So the ratios are going to be very different in this war.

[knight_of_the_star]

30. Great Mother Goddess what have we done?

This makes me want to either go downstairs, pick up my TV and toss it out of the window or just break down into tears on the spot. Great Gods, 40,000 REAL PEOPLE! I don't even want to know how many of those injuries would involve loss of limbs, varying degres of parylisis, and the like. Mr. Bush, you sir, are a bloody handed butcher who deserves whatever Fate has in store for you, for I know as of now that She is NOT on your side any longer, and you deserve whatever hell you are condemned to for the crimes you have committed in this life. May the Gods have mercy on your pathetic miserable excuse for a soul, for I know that if were up to me I would show none.

And I saw in a dream, a simple vision, but one of great depth: A skull, floating in a river of blood.

[liarliartieonfire]

36. My Lord!!

Unbelievable!
Oh my, how they cried foul when bush's war in Iraq was first compared to Vietnam..
I recall how many thousands of young soldiers, mostly draftees, were lost and injured too.
The gov't., at that time, ALSO didn't want to reveal the "numbers."

thousands and thousands. The totals were never made completely known until we, at home, could not protest loud enough to get the attention we deserved, in protest of that war. We did create our own revolution, best we could, peaceful, violent, Kent State;
We marched and shouted and screamed until the thousands and thousands were brought home. Some in coffins, body-parts, wheel chairs, stretchers.
This is too similar for me to barely comprehend. That 30 years later, the lessons have been forgotten by those who HID from that war. GEORGE W BUSH, DICK CHENEY WANTED THIS INVASION.

We had a proud, functioning Nation. We had a military capable of guarding our own borders. We had a balanced budget, and a sound social security system. We had the World's respect.
The party of Bush/Cheney ENRON economics set out to steal from our people and then steal our sons and daughters to shield their way to a foothold into Middle East Oil.
Greed has taken these 40,000 Americans, 800 dead, and thousands of Iraqi innocents. Greed for power stole our United States Government, and Geroge Bush, & Dick Cheney and pals have committed nothing short of TREASON on the United States of America.

Thousands and thousands of lives were destroyed in Vietnam before the truth was told.
THIS CANNOT GO ON ANY LONGER.
We need to do our part once again and give a LOUD VOICE to these "numbers." We need to do it now, and continue with the mantra until everyone in this Country can say that "they heard it too". NO More Censorship from the Bush Regime. Its up to us to give voice to this atrocity.

[Paranoid_Portlander]

41. 306,000 Americans injured in Vietnam.

After 31 years I still cannot wrap my mind around that figure.

[AnnitaR]

31. Sickened by the 40,000 # of soldiers injured??

Well, once you get over that shock and disgust... think about what the number of dead and injured Iraqis is! It has to be in the hundreds of thousands!

This whole thing is a horrific nightmare for everyone involved!

Bush has the blood of thousands on his hands!

[Spider Jerusalem]

33. Forty THOUSAND???

Jesus bleeding Christ. Forty fucking thousand?

If this is accurate, I'd like to know what the hell is up with the official casualty figures. The "official" number is 4,133. Either Brown made a huge mistake, or someone in the Pentagon has a LOT of explaining to do.

[troublemaker]

35. CLARIFICATION

Every should keep in mind that's 40,000 medical evacuations, not 40,000 wounded. The figure cited in the post right before this one saying the "official" number is 4,133 sounds correct. (Maybe even five or six thousand, but nowhere near forty)

Our wounded numbers are indeed apalling. The real toll has been lost on the public because due to our incredible medical care the ratio of wounded to KIA in this war is sure to be the highest in history.

It would be interesting to see a chart of medevacs over time, since the troops are probably likelier to find an illness debilitating today than they were a year ago. It would be interesting to see numbers on self-inflicted wounds, too.

The Washington Post a while back had an article saying 10% of medevacs were psychiatric. If that proportion has held up it would be 4,000 psychiatric medevacs so far. (The number of psychiatric evacuations feels like a good index of the general hideousness of a war.)

[slinkerwink]

37. look at post #22

[troublemaker]

39. Yes, 4133 wounded, 40,000 medevac.

Medical evacuation is not synonymous with wounded in action

[slinkerwink]

49. it's "patients"

[VolcanoJen]

38. Important point.

lunaville breaks down the "official" wounded count on this page; 4,133 wounded; 1,587 of those returned to duty within 72 hours. I think the 4,000 number is low, but it's certainly not 10x low.

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the 40,000 number, though... of course it's not 40,000 actually wounded, but that's still a big chunk of soldiers being returned to the US for medical reasons, isn't it? How many of these 40,000 have been returned to duty, in Iraq, or elsewhere?

What other conditions would require a med-evac? Sorry for all the questions...

[troublemaker]

40. Lots of stuff

Illnesses, mental breakdowns... anything medical. War zones are unhealthy places in many different ways. Lots of unusual diseases that we lack resistance to (because they are rare here), ditto for unusual parasites. I don't know how accidental injuries get counted.

It's interesting to wonder how many serious medical emergencies 150,000 young and in-shape people suffer in a given year outside a war zone. Probably a lot less than 40,000. That's about 27%!

[revcarol]

43. Gotta figure more than 150,000.

At any one time, maybe only 135,000, but units rotate out and in, so maybe we have had 300,000 with time in theater, some the same units as were there before.Boy am I dumb. I am trying to explain that this is not necessarily the same 135,000 staying there, gotta count the number of man days...fergit it.

[jobendorfer]

42. you name it --

"work" injuries from digging, carrying, lifting
vehicle accidents
infectious diseases (until a hundred years ago, or so, most
armies lost far more soldiers to disease than to combat)
stress and anxiety disorders
etc

J.

[sadiesworld]

44. It looks like the 40,000 # includes flights to Germany (only).

Could a patient who was flown to Germany and then to the US be counted 2x? I think the # of injured is higher than what is being reported but the # of wounded probably cannot be extrapolated from these medi-vac #s.

[Athame]

48. and that does not count those who will become disabled from

depleted uranium and other toxic substances used in this invasion. Nor does it count the birth defects and psychological destruction. Remember that there are more than 100,000 disabled from Gulf War 1, just a glimmer of this nightmare. :grr:

[Hubert Flottz]

56. Aaron Brownshirt is starting to see the error in his ways imo!

I've seen his undying love for Bush slipping for about a week now!