CATO Institution - Was Clinton more conservative than Bush?

[Woodstock]

"In less than two years, President Bush has presided over more government expansion than took place during eight years of Bill Clinton. ...

Perhaps most importantly, there was a substantial reduction in federal spending as a share of gross domestic product during the Clinton years. Using the growth of domestic spending as a benchmark, Clinton was the second most conservative president of the post-World War II era, trailing only Ronald Reagan.

To be sure, much of the credit for Clinton's good policy probably belongs to the Republican Congress, but that is not an excuse for bad policy today... Needless to say, this means it will be rather difficult to blame "big-spending" Democrats if the economy continues to sputter."

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/derugy-020725.html

High praise for Clinton? And more bashing of Bush. Cato has been bashing the Bush Administration on a consistent basis. Does this lend credence to the idea that TRUE conservatives hate this administration? They are so radical, and their policies so errant, that it's not just those of us on the left who aren't happy. Democrats need to exploit this.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

1. CATO

is not a conservative organization, they're a Libertarian organization. They detest Democrats just as much as they do Republicans.

[Woodstock]

3. I disagree - they are conservative

I would disagree that Cato opposes Republicans as much as Democrats. They/their followers for the most part vote for/support Republican candidates. They differ from the Libertarian party, but like to let that be suggested of them to lend an air of neutrality to themselves. But they are widely acknowledged to be conservative. Conservative in the sense of George W. Bush, no. In the sense of the Christian right, no. But that's their point - Bush/Ashcroft AKA poster boy for the Christian Right have strayed from "true" conservatism. I know someone involved with them, he has shown me their literature on a regular basis. One day he lent me an issue of "American Conservative" - that publication, too bashed the Bush Admin.

[Wonder]

15. yes but this is the raimondo buchanan argument

and are you saying buchanan is a true conservative? Come on... explain better please.

[ferg]

4. CATO is completely dishonest

They typically produce studies of goverment spending that omits things like inflation, population growth, etc. They're the jokers who push studies "proving" that Reagan's tax cuts raised revenue, by ignoring inflation and population growth and ignoring the FICA tax increases midterm. They're jokers.

Basically, anything CATO produces is utter right-wing (economic) garbage.

Still, it's interesting that those far right loony toons are bashing Bush.

[Woodstock]

5. My impression is the same

It's like, hey, I'm getting 95% of the pie, but you know what? I really begrudge that these paycheck to paycheck people are getting that 5%. So let's clear away any rules of the game that benefit them. I can't believe they for a moment think this will produce anything but a country with 5% living in untold luxury and 95% begging in the streets after they are completely shut out of the political process, their economic prospects shot, their rights to health, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are hopeless fantasy, the country a fouly polluted wasteland, their jobs given to foreigners on the cheap. Of course, flipping burgers/prostitution/Walmart will give them enough carbohydrates to sustain life. Let them eat cake.

[Woodstock]

7. This is what I forsee after reading Cato's recommendations to Congress

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money-power of the country will endeavor to prolong it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." -- Abraham Lincoln

"...it was impossible to save the Great Republic. She was rotten to the heart. Lust of conquest had long ago done its work; trampling upon the helpless abroad had taught her, by a natural process, to endure with apathy the like at home; multitudes who had applauded the crushing of other people's liberties, lived to suffer for their mistake in their own persons. The government was irrevocably in the hands of the prodigiously rich and their hangers-on; the suffrage was become a mere machine, which they used as they chose. There was no principle but commercialism, no patriotism but of the pocket." -- Mark Twain

[Merlin]

11. Awesome stuff, Woodstock!

Thanks.

[Woodstock]

22. A good one from Eisenhower (he had lots of good antiwar ones) :-)

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted."

[JanMichael]

2. It's a match made in hell, but yes.

I've never agreed with true Economic Libertarians, period, but I'll take whatever we can get now.

My prediction? Rove will set his beady eyes on the Libertarians next. Look out Cato!

[caledesi]

6. Puhleeze...

Clinton was not a pawn of the fundies. He balanceed the budget amont other GREAT things. No comparison. Clinton was tough on "security" but NOT a f*cking warmonger. He had a good rapport with other countries, unlike *.

Clinton was a centrist and that is what we needed at the time, even Dean admits this. Clinton had to be somewhat centrist bec of the political climate. The climate has changed. Hello???? Joe Lieberman? You are SO last century.

I have been waiting for a man like Dean for a long time and now he has my support.

Dean will be the next president; you heared it here.

[Woodstock]

8. Perhaps we can gain votes from the disgruntled "true" conservatives

if they want to get Bush out of office badly enough - and I believe a good number of them do.

If we nominate a moderate Democrat like Dean, we can pick up swing voters and still keep our base.

[JackSwift]

9. Any DU member is more of a conservative or liberal

that Bush, who is simply looting the treasury and running up our national credit card debt.

He is completely unprincipled.

[Wonder]

10. shit

thats all I have to say ... what is being said here? conservatism is the savior...? well hypothetically speaking if this is the message... merge both parties... and lets get a labor party going... (a third party that looks out for domesitic interests, innercities, education reforms, and the worker) because man the semantics are starting to make my eyes roll...

[JackSwift]

12. That's not what I'm saying by any stretch

There are principled conservatives in the world, as well as unprincipled liberals.

Conservatives are our opponents, and part of what makes democracy work. We are ideally in a struggle over what will make our country work, but this struggle is about honest differences in policy: how to encourage a robust economy and balance it against concerns for enough family time and health, etc. Our system also hopes to use personal partisan failings as a check against other parties/factions. That check and balance has broken down: we have a malignant narcissist occupying the White House and the majority party in Congress knows it and is actively covering it up.

[Wonder]

19. okay so you are talking strategy

I agree with the assessment... I just vastly distrust everything... which makes me so not a joiner right now... and playing around with various pawns can back fire... it is very wrong right now very wrong...

I understand the strategy though as you outline it... I understand the rationale is what I mean...

but my eyes still roll way too much these days.

[JackSwift]

23. Politics on a good day

is like swimming in a sewer. The politicians are very self-centered (and that is a world class understatement) and it is weird and gossipy. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be out there registering voters and getting out the vote. Do your thing the way you want to do it. But do organize.

[Woodstock]

13. Not sure if your statement was directed at me or Cato

I'm not for a minute saying we embrace Cato or its principles.

I'm saying, if they want Bush out, and we give them a candidate we like (who they just happen to not hate as much as Bush) then we've got more votes to win with. We need a good margin of error in our victory, because the thugs are going to show us Florida was just a warmup exercise in how well they can cheat - and get away with it.

[Wonder]

17. both of you ... true conservatism needs explaining.... perhaps

I am missing the boat

okay you are talking strategy... but true conservatism is another buzz word for me that means little... perhaps because I do not understand it.

[Woodstock]

21. That's why I put "true" in quotes

The distinction is theirs. It centers on a difference in economic policy - the deficits are bothering them terribly - and the war in Iraq - a war they voiced opposition to, which is related to the deficits, in their thinking. And others besides Cato are making distinctions among conservatives. "Eisenhower Republican" - does that ring a bell? There are factions among them, as there are among us. If we can exploit these weaknesses of Bush as the so-called "true" conservatives perceive them, then we perhaps gain their vote. I personally know several people who fall under this category and will not vote for Bush.

[JackSwift]

24. conservatism

is about supporting business, keeping taxes and services very low, and not getting involved in world affairs. I suppose there is also cultural preservation in there.

[jfkennedy]

14. Yes Clinton was a good Republican Democrat

He sold out America as well. If we had big government such as expensive airport security programs and regulations of the Republicans we would of had none of these problems with wars and terrorism.

Politics at it's is best is based upon a simple philosophy of democracy. Which is to be friendly. Try to have some compassion (welfare), allow some liberty which is to be tolerant of those that have different opinions then the majority.Stay out of other peoples business,(No CIA)

Most Americans don't even know it's this simple democratic principle that at one time made us the greatest country in the world, until the Republicans came along and caused problems.

[Merlin]

18. Another clueless thought.

I'd respond to your post, but it is so incoherent and full of pointless rancor that it's not worth the effort.

[Merlin]

16. Most thinking Democrats are fiscal conservatives.

Most who understand economics have come to agree that deficits lead to high interest rates which weigh heavily on the working class, aggravate the deficit with higher interest costs, bog down the economy and produce unemployment.

The Bushies are trying to deliberately destroy the liberal components of the federal government by defunding them through misbudgeting. Like Reagan, they are trying to bankrupt the federal government. It is the same strategy they feel they used on the USSR.

Their biggest target is to destroy Social Security by making it impossible for the fed to be able to afford to redeem the treasury bills held by the Social Security Trust Fund when the time comes, thus leading to a breakdown in the benefit structure, or unbearable rates of taxation on the then working population. It is a neocon strategy. It is very dangerous.

Cato is wayyyyy too conservative. But they are at least sane when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

[Wonder]

20. wow

they are trying to bring down america === very anti human --- just works for a very select few --- why are they doing this --- what does america have to gain in the world market by this neocon strategy as you call it... please explain.