Teen charged in fetuses' deaths (TX)

[JayS]

May 8, 2004, 10:53AM
Teen charged in fetuses' deaths
Associated Press
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2556955





LUFKIN -- A Lufkin High School student has been charged with murder after police say he killed his unborn twin sons by beating his pregnant girlfriend.

Gerardo Flores, 18, was arrested Friday afternoon by Lufkin police after his 16-year-old girlfriend delivered twin boys stillborn at home and sought medical attention at an East Texas hospital, an arrest affidavit states. The teen was five months pregnant.

It could be one of the first cases prosecuted under a new Texas law that changes the definition of human life for a murder charge, The Lufkin Daily News reported today. Texas law now defines an embryo or fetus as an "individual" and allows for criminal prosecution or civil court action to be carried out for injury or death to the fetus, unless it results from a medical procedure.

Flores is being held on a $250,000 bail. If convicted, he faces from five years to life in prison and a fine of up to $10,000.

*SNIP*

[eleonora]

1. delicate issue

he's in between aggravated assault and second degree murder, IMO.
I'd personally shoot a guy beating his pregnant girlfriend on the stomach.

[seabeyond]

2. then how can abortion be legal

if the fetus is an individual and he is found guilty of murder. then it has to be murder to abort, doesnt it

[JaySherman]

3. Bingo. You got it.

That's exactly what the fundies are trying to accomplish with cases like this. It's why these cases are scary in spite of how heinous the crime is.

[Gore1FL]

4. the main stipulation/argument I see

The woman was denied choice. It was her choice to carry the pregnenacy to term or to abort it. That choice was taken from her. In that respect, I support the right to convict the hoodlam that beat he to take her legal choice from her.

[seabeyond]

5. i disagree

again this is another one of those regardless how repulsed you are with what happened to the fetus, you cannot create them as individuals, and they were murdered. you would have to charge the man with an assault on the woman. i saw the slippery slope with the peterson case and knew this is where they were going and regardless of horrendous crime it just cannot be charged

just like those offended by abortion. they feel it is just as horrible and they have to suck up that horror for them cause of what this country use to be, before we all decided to keep all safe, create all to live a strict line of someones rule book.

what i do see so often with both left and right, i want my guns and i want abortion illegal, no guns and i want abortion legal.

there is a fundamental inconsistancy in all this

they get their guns, i dont wear seatbelts, you get your abortion, i can smoke in the car with my kids.

[Gore1FL]

11. Again this is not about abortion

I don't know if there is such a thing as fetal murder -- however, the idiot involved did infringe on this woman in ways far more damaging than he would had she not been pregnant.

As long as the centerpiece is her right to choose, and the denial of that right, the argument could be made for a strengthening of choice laws.

Granted, the anti-choice folks are going to try to bend this to a pro-life issue. It is the pro-choice side of the argument to push the point I have made.

Regardless of anyone's feelings, this appears to be a done deal. The strategy now, canont be to stop what is already begun, but to define what has been done in a manner consistent with a woman's right to choose.

In short, I agree with your every word, but believe we are farther down the path and therefore must respond differently.

[DoNotRefill]

6. There needs to be a charge...

with greater penalties than assault and battery to handle situations like this without classifying Z/E/Fs as human beings.

This guy deserves to have his entire world f*cked up over what he did. He deserves to spend the rest of his miserable life in jail. But murder charges?

[eyesroll]

13. Someone posted a story yesterday about a case in NY

Apparently, one can be charged with performing an illegal abortion if they deliberately induce miscarriage/fetal death without the woman's consent.

I think that's appropriate.

[DoNotRefill]

14. that'd be a double edged sword...

in order to deal with cases like this, the penalty would have to be severe. Do we really want to make performing an "illegal abortion" into a severe crime? It seems like that would come back to bite us in the behind later...

[Cheswick2.0]

7. Why aren't the charges against him for beating her?

I guess she is just the incubator.

[REP]

9. "Destruction of Property"

What woman? She's just an incubator!

[ComerPerro]

10. I was wondering about that as well

So, it doesn't matter that he beat her?

Anyone who would do this, though, is complete scum and should be put away for a long time, I think.

But I don't like to see cases like this where murder charges are filed. Its just a way to allow precident, and eventually make abortion illegal.

[Nobody]

15. Once again there is more concern for the fetuses than for the woman n/t

[katusha]

8. i guess the question i have

is if the law has been recently changed so this guy could be charged with murder, what was it before? i mean back in the days before roe v wade when abortion was illegal he would not have been charged with murder but she would have if she had terminated? i'm confused.

[TexasMexican]

12. I have no problem with this.

IMO he did commit murder.