Suspicious Israeli movers arrested in Tennessee. Sound familiar?

[Minstrel Boy]

Remember the story of the White Van and the Mossad front Urban Moving Systems? (See, for instance, ABC News: "Were Israelis detained on September 11 Spies?" http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/dailynews/2020_whitevan_020621.html)

If you do, how's this for deja vu:

Suspicious Men Arrested

May 9

Two Israeli men have been arrested after evading Unicoi County, Tennessee sheriff`s deputies, driving eratically on a two lane highway, and littering. But, there may be more to their apprehension than that. Sheriff Kent Harris says the stories they`ve been telling investigators simply don`t add up.

The two men led authorities on a three-mile high speed chase in a rented moving truck. Lt. Ron Arnold says one of the men had a fake Florida i.d. and passports found didn`t add up. The FBI is now testing a bottle thrown from the truck during the pursuit. Robert White, the community member who found the bottle, says it had a powder and liquid in it. Sheriff Harris says the substance didn`t test for any type of drug, but did for a fuel source.

The driver, 23-year old Samuel Dahan and passenger 19-year old Almaliach Noar claim they were delivering furniture and were headed to Boston, Massachusetts.

Authorities found a couple of "learning to fly" business cards during a search of the moving truck. Both men are being held in seperate cells pending a bond hearing Monday morning. Investigators have determined both men are living in the United States legally.

http://www.wcyb.tv/newsread.asp?newsid=4381

[aquart]

1. Meaning what?

[Minstrel Boy]

6. Meaning either nothing, or something.

But it's not an urban myth that Israeli movers were arrested videotaping and celebrating while the WTC burned, nor that highlighted maps were found in their van which authorities deemed betrayed foreknowledge of the attacks, nor that they had connections to Israeli military intelligence, nor that their moving company was a front operation which vanished immediately after the attacks.

So, when two Israeli movers lead police on a high speed chase, disposing of bottles of powder, with "learn to fly" business cards in the van, carrying fake ID and passports, and authorities say their stories don't add up, perhaps we should take note.

[madrchsod]

2. ya right someone`s making this up

our friends would never do anything to harm us. it`s just a couple of dumb guys caught down there in tennessee

[amber dog democrat]

3. Could be anything

but just to be sure , lets have the national alert set at light green or lavender?

[bobthedrummer]

4. Quid pro quo-we have military bases in Israel, after all.

Or maybe they're mercenaries?

[JohnLocke]

5. Must be worldwide Mossad/Zionist conspiracy </sarcasm>.

[Beam Me Up]

7. Hasn't this happened several times before?

I seem to recall (and I've not kept this kind of stuff in order) that there were four other events very much like this, besides the White Van incident of 9/11.

There was the arrest and detention of two Israelis found carrying weapons into the Mexican Parliament on a Sunday when it was not in session but was open to visitors. They were released.

Another two incodents very soon after 9/11 in the US. One of those had something to do with the Sears tower in Chicago and the other incident had the suspicious persons carrying drawings of nuclear facilities.

Finally, there was an almost identical situation to the one you're linking to that took place on the west coast--Washington state, if I remember correctly. Something about the interior of their moving van testing positive for explosives, but then it was said that the test had registered a false positive due to "lighter fluid."

Edit to add:

Mexican Congress: http://www.aztlan.net/mexmossad.htm
Sears tower: http://www.zwire.com/site/mercury_101801.html
Nuclear power plant: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/miamiherald100301.html
Washington state: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52681,00.html

[bobthedrummer]

8. Don't forget the Israeli "art students" either

[ThatPoetGuy]

13. The "art students" story is bogus, as are most of these others

Reported ONLY on Fox News, retracted, and then picked up by European "news" sites, with about as much journalistic credibility as Free Republic.

Come on, everybody, let's demonize the Jews! My dentist is a Jew, do you think he's harboring chemical weapons to use against the US? /sarcasm off

Seriously, people: we're supposed to be the good guys, and here we are harboring racist paranoid conspiracy theories. I'm seriously wondering if Jews should be thinking of fleeing the country, I hear more of this arrogant dangerous nonsense every day. Between the Gibsonites on the right wing and the paranoids on the left wing, I'd say Jews have a lot to fear from this.

[bobthedrummer]

14. That's not correct-several DUer's even met them.

I'm not a bullshitter.

[Beam Me Up]

15. Hello. You're the only one saying anyting about "Jews."

Religion, Race or Creed is not the focus here. The focus is Israli (Mossad) intelligence agents operating inside the United States--and at times being found doing things that are highly suspicious.

Edit: typo

[ThatPoetGuy]

25. Today....

Today I found a site, jewwatch.com -- it purports to keep track of the insidious jews who control our money, our government, and our media. In many ways the site seems to resemble those right-wing sites declaring the "most wanted" doctors who perform abortions. Poking around for a few minutes, I found something surprising:

My mother's name and address.

Why? Well, she runs a little newsletter in her community, announcing births and weddings and funerals and such. Oooh, insidious evil jew.

Mossad agents? All the articles, flimsy and anecdotal as they are, are about people who IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES as Israelis. Yes, those people at Mossad haven't yet perfected their undercover skills well enough to say, "I'm Jordanian," "I'm Egyptian." (/sarcasm)

The world is more complicated than that. If there is something going on, there are many other explanations -- a frame-job, or the encroachment of the Israeli mafia, for instance -- but there is something genuinely terrifying about the fact that the left is ready to blame Israel for all the world's ills while the right is stalking my mother.

[Beam Me Up]

37. You have some points but

you are also making sweeping generalizations about us--or the left--as well. I try not to generalize about groups of people, whomever they may be, because I recognize that tendency as the foundation of prejudice. I'm not perfect but I do try.

How do I *know* the persons mentioned in these articles are Israli and/or Mossad? Personally, I don't; I only know what is being reported. I don't think it is only a matter of what the individuals 'say'; I assume it has to do with whatever identification they are carrying. I understand that in some instances matters have involved the Israli consulate.

I understand that the world is extremely complicated. I am appreciative of anyone who can help me gain more insight into this complexity. I'm not someone who thinks Israel is manipulating US foreign policy. However, I do believe that US *AND* Israeli foreign policy is often manipulated in favour of oil-soaked war profiteering elites.

Edited to add: Sorry to hear your mother is being harassed by wingnuts.

[ThatPoetGuy]

39. you are very cool, eom

[loathesomeshrub]

26. Thank You!! n/t

[Cassandra]

49. I have trouble believing actual Mossad agents...

would be so incompetent (unless they've been trained by Rummy). Bad papers, throwing things out of windows? Mossad wannabees, maybe?
I spent part of my adolescence with a real live KGB agent next door, so maybe, having survived that easily, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what all foreigners who lurk here are doing. If the authorities want to find out what these guys were up to, let them do that without jumping to every conclusion possible.

[Minstrel Boy]

16. Bogus? Alert from the National Counterintelligence Center, Mar 1, 2001:

Suspicious Visitors to Federal Facilities

In the past six weeks, employees in federal office buildings located throughout the United States have reported suspicious activities connected with individuals representing themselves as foreign students selling or delivering artwork. Employees have observed both males and females attempting to bypass facility security and enter federal buildings.

If challenged, the individuals state that they are delivering artwork from a studio in Miami, Florida, called Universal Art, Inc, or that they are art students and are looking for opinions regarding their work. These individuals have been described as aggressive. They attempt to engage employees in conversation rather than giving a sales pitch.

Federal police officers have arrested two of these individuals for trespassing and discovered that the suspects possessed counterfeit work visas and green cards. These individuals have also gone to the private residences of senior federal officials under the guise of selling art.

...

Other reporting indicates that there may be two groups involved, and they refer to themselves as "Israeli art students." One group has an apparently legitimate money- making goal while the second, perhaps a non-Israeli group, may have ties to a Middle Eastern Islamic fundamentalist group.

http://www.ncix.gov/news/2001/mar01.html#a1

Look: the Mossad is no more Israel and Israelis than the CIA is America and Americans. It isn't "demonization."

[Minstrel Boy]

18. more info on the art students:

In general, these individuals appear to be organized in teams of 8 to 10 people, with one person described as the "Team Leader". They are usually encountered in pairs or individually carrying a makeshift art portfolio. Several times, they have, been seen or admitted to being dropped off in an area by the Team Leader, who returns later to pick them up. The females are usually described as very attractive, and all are generally in their early to mid-20s. Most admit to having served in the Israeli Military. This is not surprising given the mandatory military service require in Israel, however, a majority of those questioned has stated they served in military intelligence, electronic signal intercept, or explosive ordinance units. Some have been linked to high-ranking officials in the Israeli military. One was the son of a two-star general, one served as the bodyguard to the head of the Israeli Army, one served in a Patriot missile unit. That these people are now traveling in the U.S. selling art seems not to fit their background.

Their stories are remarkable only in their consistency. At first, they will state that they are art students, either from the University of Jerusalem, or the Bezalel Academy of Arts in Jerusalem. Other times they will purport to be promoting a new art studio in the area. When pressed for details as to the location of the art studio or why they are selling the paintings, they become evasive. Some claim to be the artist who painted the artwork, others claim they promoting the work of others or of Israel. Information has been received which indicates the art is actually produced in China. When told that they cannot solicit on federal facilities, they will claim that the paintings are not for sale, but that they are soliciting interest in the paintings, either for an art studio or for a future art sale.

An incident report by DEA Tampa has revealed much information relating to these individuals. DEA Agents at the Tampa District Office questioned the Team Leader of a group of 9 individuals at length, The Team Leader stated he purchases the paintings for $8 to $10 dollars from an individual in the Hollywood/Ft. Lauderdale, Florida area. The paintings are then sold for $50 to $80 dollars. (Other offices have reported the paintings selling for $150-$200 dollars.) The individuals come to the U. S. on tourist visas, and finance their stay here by selling the paintings. The Hollywood, Florida area seems to be a central point for these individuals with several having addresses in this area.

http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm

[ThatPoetGuy]

33. Seriously...

Did you even read the articles you linked to?

This guy thinks he's living in the X-Files: "If anything untoward should happen to me then all of your customers (at the corporate level) will receive this information. Also, every local, state, and national media organization...all of congress...every federal law
enforcement agency...and every large stock-oriented investment firm in the nation. All of these various entities will receive a detailed email...and all at the same time."

And let's get this straight from the start:
"Federal Justice Department flaks have denounced reports of a massive Israeli spy ring as an "urban myth" -- despite solid reporting by Fox News, a French online service -- and by CL."

"Solid reporting by Fox News." Do I even need to make an effort with that?

The French online service he refers to -- it has no reporters in the US. All that article does is make reference to the Fox News report, and throw in such sterling statements as "THIS IS TRUE!!" C'est vrai. The same "journal" repeated the nonsensical notion that 4,000 israelis didn't show up for work at the WTC on 9/11 -- right, like almost 10 percent of WTC workers were Israeli. It's nothing but bloodthirsty, dangerous, paranoid bullshit.

Sugg, who seems to be auditioning for a gig with the Lone Gunmen, refers to the DEA documents, and he conveniently leaves out that the "art students" are only identified as Israelis because they said so.

[bobthedrummer]

34. Fox News military analyst used to work for TITAN.

Btw, the US Army indictments on one of the guards coming up to his court martial includes CONSPIRACY.

We only deal with reality here-even "spook" reality.
I find some of your posts naive, at best.
:hi:

[Tinoire]

38. Sorry. I read the documents in French they are far different

and chock-full of details about what happened and where.

[ThatPoetGuy]

27. So

If they were Israeli art students, why did they have "counterfeit work visas and green cards"? Real ones are easy enough for an Israeli to get.

Even though you've jumped to assume a Satanic Mossad-based conspiracy, your own excerpt contains this:

"One group has an apparently legitimate money-making goal while the second, perhaps a non-Israeli group, may have ties to a Middle Eastern Islamic fundamentalist group."

So basically, you're saying Mossad is responsible because some suspicious people claimed to be from Israel, even though it defies logic that Israelis would need to fake green cards and your own sources say it was Islamic fundamentalists.

It's like "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" around here sometimes, I swear; whatever happens, it's due to the diabolical machinations of Mossad.

[ParanoidPat]

29. I think you're in over your head here....

:wtf: does this purported web site you claim to have found have to do with this thread or DU in general? Awful broad brush you paint with while accusing others of the same.

[ThatPoetGuy]

35. OF COURSE I'm in over my head.

I'm terrified.

I'm angry.

I'm trying to argue with 20 people at once.

The people I look to for reason and compassion seem to be seeing a couple of Israelis acting weirdly and drawing dangerous, far-reaching conclusions.

[Elidor]

41. And none of us are buying your blanket, knee-jerk denials

C'mon, man, the Mossad have admitted spying on the US for decades. DECADES. You'd have us believe these are Israeli boy scouts selling cookies door-to-door. Only a fool would buy the crap you're selling.

[Minstrel Boy]

30. "Most admit to having served in the Israeli Military.

This is not surprising given the mandatory military service require in Israel, however, a majority of those questioned has stated they served in military intelligence, electronic signal intercept, or explosive ordinance units." - from post 18

The guys arrested in the van on Sept 11 had similar connections.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

17. I'm not so sure...

I would be among the first to dismiss the "Israeli Art Students" thing as an urban legend, except that it actually happened to me!

I was working in the building management office of the third largest office building in San Francisco, and we were indeed visisted by someone claiming to be an Israeli art student. This was sometime in late 2000, early 2001. After looking politely at his art, we pretty much shooed him out of the building in accordance with building policy.

I have no idea what it means. Just putting it out there.

[bobthedrummer]

20. As I said, several DUer's met these folks.

Btw, welcome to DU!
:hi:

[ThatPoetGuy]

36. Hey, don't I get a welcome?

Just because we disagree on this?

I have fewer posts than he does....

[Beam Me Up]

48. Welcome ThatPoetGuy!

:toast:

To DU: It is what it is. Which is to say, it is what we make it. Like so much in life, it could be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

[Tinoire]

21. It is certainly NOT bogus. You can read the report here

You can read entire DEA report right here: http://antiwar.com/rep/DEA_Report_redactedxx.pdf

There are several sites carrying the leaked report.

This knee-jerk defense of anything pertaining to Isreal is ridiculous.

[BeHereNow]

22. No one said ANYTHING about race.

It is not a racial issue, nor is it a religious issue.
It is an issue concerning two of the most corrupt
governments on the planet and the fact that
they appear to be working in tandem to detroy
the citizens they claim to protect.
Nothing 'racial' about it.
And frankly, I am sick to death of any criticism against
the GOVERNMENT practices and policies of Israel
immediately being tagged a form of racism or anti-:semitism.
BULLSHIT- That is the same as equating the citizens
in the US as being somehow connected to the crap
our government is doing in our names.
Welcome to DU by the way!
:hi:
BHN

[ThatPoetGuy]

40. Hi!

You're right, no one said anything about race. But nonetheless, this is nothing but idle speculation, and this speculation can easily have consequences on the lives of real people, who happen to be Jews.

Pay attention, follow the dots, and if the dots lead ineluctably to Mossad's door, I'll knock it down with you. But this random guesswork isn't deductive at all -- it isn't reasoning at all -- and it's the kind of thing that feeds the lunatics who are stalking my mother.

Thanks for the welcome! It's the first one I've gotten, and I'm not usually this combative, either!

[bobthedrummer]

42. I know about stalking witnesses to murder and other crimes committed

by an individual who has claimed government immunity since 1969. This person walked away from two federal grand juries in Milwaukee in 1970. There is no statute of limitations for murder in the USA.

But these criminals have been protected from prosecution by the abuse and corruption of "national security" which can involve operatives of foreign origin-like thse guys in Tennessee.

There is the historic reality of cultists in key positions of "national security" to also consider if you want to knowledgeably talk about the dynamics of realpolitik.

Most law enforcement folks know what I'm talking about, many of them have fallen or been discredited for doing their jobs-betrayed by criminals within National Security:grr:

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

[BeHereNow]

44. I'll say it again then to make up for the

lack of DU hospitality...
WELCOME to DU!

Sorry your mom is having a bad time-

Forgive us if we seem overly tin foil headed about this
strange phenomenon with the moving vans
and such, but speaking of following the dots,
there are simple TOO many of the moving van
stories over the last few years.
And you will learn, as you spend time here,
there is a certain faction of DUers who
immediately scream "anti-semitism" if there
is ANY criticism of Sharon, who is simply another
member of the neocon goon squad.

So hey you-
Welcome to DU, one more time.
And I hope your mom is okay.
BHN

[ThatPoetGuy]

46. Thanks!

Thanks, BeHereNow, you're awesome.

I'll give you that there are a lot of these stories, and they look suspicious, but there isn't enough data to reach a solid conclusion -- the vans could be a Mossad plot, they could be organized crime, they could be some kind of fraternity hazing, some weird money-making scheme, or any number of other things. Too much of the data comes from really unreliable sources, too; there's something odd going on when DUers cite Fox News as a legitimate source.

Sharon is despicable, a monster and a murderer, but not, really, a neocon. Though he may share their objectives, it's not like the fat pigbastard is actually reading the theories of Irving Kristol and Leo Strauss; he doesn't want to hoodwink his own people like the neocons, he just wants to kill a lot of innocent people.

Thanks again for the welcome! After tonight's antagonism, it felt really good.

Matthew.

[BeHereNow]

47. Rule number one...

Don't take anything here personally!
It is a very diverse crowd with varied levels
of communication skills, methods and ideologies.
It can get rocky sometimes and the "ignore"
button can be your best friend.
If you notice a particular poster antagonizing
you time and again, simply click on the "zzzz" icon
by their name on their posts and "poof" they are gone
from your vision on threads!
I have made some very DEAR friends here.
I'll be your friend too.

BHN:hug:

[Snazzy]

43. That story is not bogus

You can read the actual leaked DEA reports here:

http://cryptome.quintessenz.org/mirror/dea-il-spy.htm

It happened. What to make of it is another story.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. Yes.

A couple of threads in LBN discussing this, too, recalling some other incidents:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x543413

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x543408

[havocmom]

10. there was that incident last summer in New Mexico

Two Israeli in a truck rented for an in town move in Chicago. Told the officer who stopped them they were moving furniture from Austin to Illinois then changed story when officer told them New Mexico was not along that route.

That was odd. This is odd.

another DU thread on this subject:
link
edit: typo

[corporatewhore]

11. ya know what else is familiar -the torture techniques

"In fact, tens of thousands of Palestinians who have served time in Israeli prisons and detention centres see striking similarities between Israeli treatment of Palestinian prisoners and American treatment of Iraqi detainees."
Read More

[Lars39]

12. Wasn't there something about OakRidge on fire yesterday?

Unicoi County is in East TN, too; a border county. Just wondering....

[seemslikeadream]

19. I was thinking about that too

Toxco Plant Fire Causes Evacuations

Fire crews and emergency management officials on the scene of a fire at the East Tennessee Technology Park, at a plant called Toxco.

The nuclear facility, K-25 is in the park, but the Department of Energy confirms the fire in NOT at K-25. Toxco is located inside the city of Oak Ridge, but in Roane County.

The fire began just after 1:00pm Saturday afternoon. The Tennessee Emergency Management Authority says it's a sodium hydroxide fire.

<snip>


http://www.volunteertv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1851034&nav=4QcHMxPv

[Lars39]

23. Thanks. I was looking for that article!

[ParanoidPat]

28. Gee, where's "Mike" when you need him?

Someone want to post this in a BBV thread? :shrug: ;-) :evilgrin:

[kentuck]

24. How do we know they were Israeli ???

There was also a story out a week or so ago about how fake IDs and passports were very popular nowadays....??

[charlie]

31. Dunno about fake passports

but real ones seem to be pretty popular:

Canadians watch unfolding passport case

Canadian authorities are looking into the Israeli passport case unfolding in Auckland.

In 1997, Israel gave Canada a solemn assurance it would ensure that Canadian passports would not be used for covert purposes. Two Mossad agents had been caught using fake Canadian passports during a failed assassination attempt on Khalid Mash-al - a top Hamas official - in Jordan during 1997.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3561985&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&thesecondsubsection=&reportid=1162641

How the trap was sprung

A quadriplegic, wheelchair-bound cerebral palsy sufferer was the victim of an alleged plot by Israelis looking to secure a New Zealand passport.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3561101&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&thesecondsubsection=&reportid=1162641

Israeli pair appear in court on passport charges

Two Israeli men appeared briefly in the High Court at Auckland yesterday accused of trying to obtain a false New Zealand passport.

Urie Zoshe Kelman, 30, and Eli Cara, 50, have denied three joint charges including attempting to obtain a New Zealand passport and participating in an organised crime group to obtain a false passport.

Two other men were also said to be involved.

Zev William Barkan, 37, has left the country and authorities say they do not know where to find him.

A fourth man is believed to be still in New Zealand.

...

Police say that Barkan attempted to get a false passport in the name of a wheelchair-bound cerebral palsy sufferer.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?reportID=1162641

[Skip Intro]

32. OK - I'm just posting this fwiw

This piece contains a lot of factual info, cited to major news organizations. At the very least, it runs down the several Israeli "movers" stories, and the art student story and the Faux news Cameron piece that was disappeared.

Unfortunately, the writer does editorialize and draw some conclusions.

I am only posting this for the factual info. contained in the piece - there's a heck of a lot of it here.


http://www.rense.com/general38/cldou.htm

On edit:

Links to screensaves of the Faux story that vanished:

FOX News Broadcast of the Massive Israeli Spy Ring Linked to September 11 -

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Israeli-Spying-Part-1.htm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Israeli-Spying-Part-2.htm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Israeli-Spying-Part-3.htm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Israeli-Spying-Part-4.htm

here's a link to a story on the "dancing Israelis" who filmed the attacks on the WTC, and, again, they were "movers."
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MCK311A.html

[ForrestGump]

45. I had an Israeli moving company move me once

They were utter scum, and slimed out of covering the 'insured' items that they undeniably broke. I wish I could have had them arrested.

[vajraroshana]

50. "art students" sounds like a money-making scheme

as ThatPoetGuy suggested.

I usually just lurk around here and don't post that often, but when I read this, I got major deja-vu.

This is exactly how we made money when I was a teenager and lived in an ISKCON (aka hara krishna) community in Dallas, TX.

They'd buy huge quantities of these cheap mass-produced oil paintings from China and then groups would go out in vans dressed in "regular" clothes so people wouldn't know who they were really dealing with. Individuals would be dropped off at various locations, oftentimes flea-markets or even malls where we'd have booths, but some of the more experienced would go to office buildings or door-to-door with portfolios (the less experienced who went to the flea-markets would sell the paintings already stretched either "as is" or with a frame).

Oftentimes folks would go out on trips in vans for days (until they ran out of "art").

The mark-up is enormous. A cheap oil-painting that costs about $5-$10 or even less (depending on the size of the painting) paired with a cheap $5 frame from Mexico could easily fetch $75-$300. And that was in the early 80s.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that these "Israeli Art Students" are really hare krishnas, but it's ridiculous to suggest that these are Mossad when there are easily more plausible explanations. The connections between Federal buildings might seem strange or even ominous, but you don't have the full story of where else these "Israeli Art Students" were selling. If these "art students" are even 1/10th as aggressive as the experienced hare krishna sellers I knew, then they would be hitting every office building they thought they might have some chance of making a sell. It's just that the places that have received any notice are the federal buildings. That doesn't explain some of the more unusual aspects of this story, however.

One thing's for sure, if these folks operate like the hare krishna community I was in, and it reads so very closely like what we did, then these "art students" are making a shit-load of cash.

[vajraroshana]

51. ps, thank goodness I got out when I did

I was 18 and made it out of that "cult". When I read "Monkey on a Stick" it made me physically ill for about a month.