This site is a joke

[rocktop15]

I used to LOVE this site. I would probably spend at least 60 minutes on here a day to get educated about the issues so I could get votes for Kerry (I have converted 10 votes myself.)

I have never become more disgusted than what I saw in a previous post of mine. For me posting a small, positive aspect of what I saw as a rise in the economy---I get flamed.

Hell, I hate the Bush administration as much as the next guy but I don't let my hatred blindside me. Partisan politics is what Freepers do best. Don't let this site turn into the Democratic version of FR. The Democrats are known for their "large umbrella." Take that umbrella out of the closet and use it once or twice.

Word. =)

[kentuck]

1. That's a pretty broad brush you're painting there with fellow....???

Damn, I believe it's even bigger than that "umbrella" you're talking about...??

[Must_B_Free]

59. Those who deviate from the groupthink will be punished

[toddzilla]

2. Whatever...

Personally, i thought your post and followups were lacking in the reality department.


But hey, because some of us disagree with you, feel free to discount everything that is posted on here, it's only logical.

[rumguy]

3. You get called out on the facts man

Learn to deal with it.

You got your ass handed to you because you made a stupid post.

[rocktop15]

7. I was gonna post something to your response in my other post

Politics isn't an "I'm right, you're wrong" game.

[rumguy]

11. Crowing about ten dollar an hour jobs is asking to get

beaten down...

It just is.

[liberalhistorian]

12. Why was it a stupid post?

Because he had the nerve to post something positive that happened to him? Believe it or not, there really are areas of the country where employment and the economy are improving. It hasn't happened in my area and maybe not in yours, but there are many other places in the country where it has. Just because you may not want to hear that doesn't make it any less true.

[rumguy]

18. it's not proof that the economy is proving that's what it was offered as

[rumguy]

21. this is where rockitytop jumped the shark in his post

" I wouldn't vote for Bush, but, as Bill Maher said, I'd bet on the guy. With 300,000 +/- new jobs being created in the past two months, and the economy on the rise,"

The numbers don't lie...these are shit jobs without benefits...

Calling him out on that is our duty...

[mhr]

4. Positive Economy - What In The World Are You Talking About?

You must live in a different universe.

Please tell us about time travel, I am all ears.

[ParanoidPat]

5. Grow up

*

[liberalhistorian]

20. My, that's a very

intelligent, thoughtful, productive response!!! I've noticed that people usually say that when they don't have anything else of substance to say.

[liberalhistorian]

6. I saw what happened on that thread,

and, although I didn't join in on the "fun", I apologize for it; that was totally unnecessary and uncalled for. DUers should be happy for other DUers when good things happen to them, and I wish you luck with your job.

I think a lot of it may have to do with the frustration many people feel over their own employment situation because, frankly, there are still many areas in the country where the uptick in employment hasn't happened yet and people are scared, frustrated and angry.

I, too, have been concerned about this site over the past several weeks; I posted a thread in GD about it tonight, but it was locked.

[rocktop15]

9. Thank you for your kind words

I appreaciate them.

[othermeans]

26. Locked? I read it

I read it. It was a fairly cogent argument for a little more diversity on the board.

Believe me though if you say something critical of a favorite Democrat or something favorable about a Republican you've got to be able to put some starch in your spine and your argument.

I complained about Feinstein and Boxer being pro-death penalty (my favorite bitch along with the Iraq War) and was really destroyed but hey that's the way it goes not just on DU but in life.

The insults didn't hurt so much as the fact that only one person read the original post.

So talk heart stand up for what you believe in and remember what the great playwright William Shakespeare said:

"To thine ownself be true."

[Cheswick2.0]

51. a "cojent" argument for more diversity on the board...........

LOL, yeah I'm convinced

[0007]

57. Apparently this has gone unheeded by said poster in question

[juajen]

29. Hi, liberalhistorian

I read your thread that was locked, and thought you had some insightful suggestions; however, I believe the owners of this board have a right to direct you to the place they, personally, want that kind of discussion to go. Obviously, there is a "suggestion box" and they just directed you there. I certainly do not believe that they were trying to shut you down; just doing their job, controlling the board.

[yardwork]

8. You didn't get flamed. I read the whole thread - and contributed to it.

It's true that a lot of people disagreed with you. That's a big difference from being flamed.

If you really want to get educated about issues, then stick around. What you had directed at you was frustration and sorrow over lost jobs. People are very stressed about this right now - they're watching their life savings go down the drain. They have no health coverage for themselves or their children. It's a very difficult time.

Your thread hit a nerve. Not everybody gets to make such an impact. Tell yourself it was a lesson learned and move on, but stick around here. Nobody meant anything personal against you, I am sure. People are just very upset about the economy, that's all.

[kentuck]

10. Remember Carlos Jiacinto ?

:)

[Fenris]

13. Si!

:D

[Renew Deal]

14. He caught someone here on a bad day.

[vetwife]

23. This site is fine..I just left Smirking Chimp for good !

The top there is something to be desired. You can't discuss anything ! I had over 5000 posts. Home here. Like the atmosphere a little better. I loved the people there and everyone here but S/C got full of themselves.

[liberalhistorian]

15. Oh, please, he's

no Carlos, that's ridiculous!!!

[kentuck]

24. Are you defending the poster or attacking the other DUers???

What part of his statement, "This site is a joke" do you disagree with?

[liberalhistorian]

35. I was doing neither,

and you should very well know better than to think I would agree with the "this site is a joke" statement. I simply didn't like how he was piled on in that other thread, and I think people are getting too quick to yell "freeper" the second they see something that doesn't totally agree with what they think.

And before you start in on me, let me tell you that I'm a single parent who was laid off last month and who hasn't yet found another job despite a pull-out-all-the-stops, no-holds-barred search and whose unemployment is less than half of what my salary was.

[Erika]

22. Jobs are at a lesser value.

The Bush produced jobs average a pay rate of $14 an hour. The jobs Bush lost paid an average of $17 an hour. Our standard of living has been reduced. Why anyone can think this is a positive is beyond me. In addition, health care costs are greater, if existent, and costs of any oil product is way up. Bush is turning us into a third world country.

[DrWeird]

27. Remember Juancarlos?

It was his sockpuppet that popped up immediately after "Jiacinto" got banned. Only lasted a few days before getted banned for posting bigotted antiislamic crap.

[charlie]

32. Heh

Carlos is reprising his cut-n-paste schtick over at DailyKos now. True to form, he's pretty much the lone defender of All Things Lieberman over there.

[kentuck]

30. Oh ...never mind....

I'll just let this negative thread disappear... although I could say more... :)

[nayt]

44. whatever happened to him?

[Elwood P Dowd]

16. Saying this site is a joke will not win any points with the mods, and

it will make many of the members think you are a freeper who has managed to survive for 130 posts.

[charlie]

17. Let's link to the other thread

so folks just looking in can decide if you got singed for merely being the bearer of good news:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1565032

[revcarol]

19. Your large unbrella was a child's parasol for others.

You refused to see other's points of view. You applied Republican talking points to all peoples'experiences.

Hey you are a student living at home, making $10 an hour at a summer job,almost no expenses.Life is good for you.

But it's NOT good for the 40 million without health insurance; it's NOT good for those who've used up their unemployment, it's NOT good for people whose jobs have been sent overseas or outsourced...ad infinitum.

And your posts in that thread refuse to recognize their heartache and despair and heroic effort; instead, they musta done sumthin' wrong.

I pity you as you have no empathy for others. Maybe the only time the truth will make sense to you is when you discover that the coveted job you trained for for years went to Indonesia.

[philosophie_en_rose]

25. The site isn't defined by one thread.

If anyone personally attacks you, then ignore them or press alert.
If you don't like a thread, then ignore it or press alert.

If the site is too juvenile for you, then by all means elevate the discourse to your level of maturity. I'm not sure how insulting the entire board for one thread will do that. However, it is up to you to decide what you'll do.

[Arkana]

28. Take it easy

I read your post, and I'm genuinely happy that you found a job that pays well. But to tar all of us with a brush like "This site is a joke" is really kind of asinine.

Bush's economy is a paper tiger. Those new jobs he's created won't hold up to a gentle breeze. You may be one of the thousands that have found a good job, but to say the economy is improving just because you did so is rather presumptuous and it consequently earned you a lot of disagreement.

Partisan politics are what Freepers do best, you're right. What your responders did was not a partisan attack.

[kevinam]

31. people don't agree with your comments...

Your perspective is much different than other folks. For many folks earning $10.00/hour is not really a very livable wage. If you were 35 with a wife and kid(s) to support, that isn't a job. If you try putting yourself in one of those 2 million or so peoples shoes, and have someone praising $10.00/hour jobs, you might not agree. You don't like being termed a freeper or a republican, but you said stuff that is consistant with what they say. I have heard many republicans say, "there are jobs out there, people just don't want to work." Of course with the implication that people that can't find jobs are lazy. You didn't just claim to have good luck, you cast views on others. Next, you said the unemployment rate is 4%. I am having difficulty verifying that number. One place I looked at listed it as 5% as of March of 2004. Link: http://www.economagic.com/blssta_sa.htm And actually, the US department of labor lists the umemployment for the state at 5.2% http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost This being DEMOCRATIC underground, you couldn't have expected people would be stoked to hear praise for Bush's handling of the economy. Especially since we aren't talking about a net gain of jobs over his Presidency, but a pretty significant loss...Kevin.

[The_Casual_Observer]

33. Rocky, Tho I doubt your sincerity,

You aren't gonna get too far coupling your modest "good fortune" with some kind of half assed prediction of a win for bush. It's the wrong approach, particularly around these parts.

[salinen]

34. Only part that is offensive to me

"I'd bet on the guy". I don't care if it is a Bill Maher quote, * could add 6 million jobs but he'd continue to be a pig fucker.

[mitchum]

36. Your argument lacked substance

You came across some $10/hr jobs.
Were they:
Part time?
Full time?
Seasonal?
With benefits?

Posters questioning you about this "rise in the economy" were not being "partisan".

[camero]

37. Just because people disagree with you

doesn't make this a bad site. You don't know everything

[rman]

38. and because of that one post you now hate DU?

why jump to conclusions like that?

[Skittles]

39. are you the 19 year old college student living at home

bragging he could find jobs for wages most of us couldn't live a week on? Grow the f*** up.

[Angelus]

40. That's sad, man.

People should be happy you got a job, not ripping on you because of it. You're a fellow Democrat who wants to see Kerry get in office. Why should anyone rip on you?

Sometimes it seems like the people on this website are quick to cry out "freeper" because someone has a different opinion or sees something from a different angle. How sad.

I'm personally glad you got a job. :) Good luck to you on your new venture! :hi:

[jmags]

41. The one thing that really drives me crazy about this site

is that when there is a difference of opinion, people are so immature and rude about it. I have more respectful and mature conversations with people who I disagree with about everything than people who I disagree with only 10% of the time.

[Angelus]

45. You're 100% correct, jmags.

It's sad, isnt' it?

[minkyboodle]

42. your post was a joke

implying that because you were able to find a job that works for a 19 year old living at home that the economy was strong and that "If you want a job you can go find one." Your post lacked perspective, substance and it attacked those struggling to find jobs that could support their living situation as basically lazy (i.e. you just don't want to find a job). Is it any surprise you got nailed to the wall for it, and what is the point of bitching about here?
Scott

[Selwynn]

43. Tensions are high, times are brutal, hope is only a glimmer...

...so we all probably ought to cut everyone some slack. Everyone, even the people we disagree with. I'm saying this to myself as well as to you as well as to everyone else here.

No, things are not as light and non-hostile as they have always been. Yes, there's a lot more anger, a lot more frustration and a lot less patience right now. All I can say is, what do you expect? Some of us feel like we are living through the worst time in the history of our lives. Things that we might normally react to with patience and more thought are now just hot buttons -- personally I feel like a I have multiple personality disorder. Most of the time my posts are rational, but man, some days after a full day of nothing but the most depressing and discouraging news ever, someone will post something and I will find myself struggling not to just unload, and sometimes losing.

We're all under a lot of stress - its not happy happy fun joy lucky ya y a cheer time here at DU. The state of the world is hell. The state of the country, worse. Obviously emotions are extremely high right now.

The best thing we can all do is try, try, try not to be part of the problem as often as possible. I know first hand that it isn't always easy. There's something about anonymous Internet boards - its so easy to allow yourself to rant and rave and take out frustration in ways you never would if you were sitting in the same room with the person.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that tensions are high, and posts like these don't help. No one here is perfect, and if you got a raw deal, then you got a raw deal. I understand where your coming from, as I have also been frustrated by treatment as asked for more openness and toleration. And its fair to ask for that, but I also think its equally important that we all accept that things are not "normal" right now - we're on red alert, and many of us feel like we're on a sinking ship trying to bail water. Now's not the time to get one's nose out of joint because someone wasn't polite enough to you while desperately trying to save the ship from sinking.

Again I say, I'm talking as much for myself as anyone else. No holier than thou here.

[TheWatcher]

46. NO WAY are you skating on this one pal.

THIS is why you got punked.

Your response to this post was what drew most of the ire you got.

This was the post:

Unemployed 4 years!

Two College Degrees:
BSEE
MBA

Special Training:
FAA Certified Commercial Pilot

Military Service:
Officer United States Navy

Professional Work Experience:
Long and Varied

Slowly becoming impoverished!

Can't get low income jobs - too much experience, too many aliens
Can't find middle class white collar jobs - outsourced or already filled

Dallas, TX is in the top 10 cities with most lost jobs over the last three years.

112,000 high tech workers lost their jobs in 2001 and 2002. That represented 3.2 billion dollars in lost income. The local economy has not recovered and is not creating equivalent replacement jobs.

This was your response:
rocktop15 (132 posts) Sun May-09-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #35

36. I hate to be a Republican but.............


If that's the scenario, then you're doing something wrong.

Sorry, my friend, you BLEW whatever slack you might have had coming RIGHT THERE. It was subtle, but most of us caught it.

The biggest problem with your post was that it was narrow in scope and baiting at worst. It would have been different if you were simply representing something good happening in your own life that was a positive improvement for you INDIVIDUALLY, but to take the narrow scope of your assertions and present it as a verifiable TREND for the ENTIRE ECONOMY was foolhardy and completely unrealistic.

And people continued to call you on it, and you have absolutely NO further verifiable information other than this narrow individualistic observance to prove your sweeping thesis that the ENTIRE ECONOMY must be IMPROVING because you can find a $10.00 and hour job that allows you to live comfortably in the safety net with Mommy and Daddy.

The fact that you were so completely dismissive of other people's information tells me you have no desire to see things in an objective manner, and that you are very naive about the world around you.

I'm sorry, that is what you presented, and that is what people responded to.

Perhaps people responded harshly at first and should have given you a bit of a chance to expound on what you were saying before putting you on the defensive so quick, but the fact is that you are missing a lot of what's going on around you.

People are HURTING.

Inflation is beginning to take hold, and those that are unemployed or UNDEREMPLOYED cannot AFFORD to have the kind of job you covet so much right now and continue to TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES. People are scared. This administration has seen more job loss than ANY administration since Hoover. People are scared, and many are beginning to wonder how they are going to be able to keep going.

The fact remains you are 19 years old, you live at home with Mom and Dad, and you cannot even begin to relate to what most people who are in these situations that have no safety net such as you have are going through. You still have much to learn, Young Jedi.

The fact that something positive happened to you should not be scrutinized. The fact you think it is a sign and testament to the economy recovering as a whole is not based in reality and SHOULD BE.

The one's that weren't flaming you were trying to TEACH you something, and they have a hell of a lot more experience in the real world than you do.

You would do well to listen to them.

[WilliamPitt]

47. Woop

There it is.

[cosmicone]

48. Very well put

I completely agree

[Andromeda]

49. You took the words...

right out of my mouth. :-)

[Mobius]

53. Can I put you on my buddy list?

cuz: :yourock:

[doni_georgia]

50. Some of us have a different take on the economy

Bush* is counting jobs created - but what kind of jobs are they? I know tons of people who are still out of work who lost their well-paying jobs in the aftermath of 9/11. None of these have been offered anything paying enough to support a family on. I know there have been many jobs created in my town - in the last year McDonalds, Wendys, Zaxbys, and two full service car washes have opened. Those are jobs, but who do you know can actually live on the wages from any of these places?

Meanwhile, the cost of living is increasing steadily. Gas prices are going through the roof, and with them, the price of all consumer goods (including groceries) are skyrocketing. I'm a teacher, and will not be getting a raise again this year (2nd year in a row). My utilities have all gone up (had a $400 natural gas bill in March). With the increases in the cost of living, my not getting a raise is the equivalent to a salary cut.

Just can't get excited over this type of economic recovery. Sorry if that offends you.

[Mobius]

52. A few posts, does not a site make.

Don't lump me in with all, thanks.
Also, in regards to the economy, two times zero, is still zero. The economy is still nowhere near where it was before Shrub took office. Theoretically, the economy should be booming, since we are at WAR right now. Just more proof of Bush's ineptitude, if you ask me.
I also most humbly submit to you, that the abrasive tone of your posts, may be PART of the the reason for your flamage, not solely the content.

[Cheswick2.0]

54. what I love about this thread

All the freepers have shown up to agree with each other and they actually think we don't recognize them and their tactics.
I am not actually directing this the original poster, but some others who have jumped in.
Do you folks have any idea how un-original you are?

[Q]

55. First...it's the 'big tent', not 'large unbrella'..

- Secondly...using the RWing talking point that we are 'blinded' by our hatred of Bush* won't get you very far on any Left-leaning board. Why is it a RWing talking point? Because RWingers ALWAYS use the 'blind hate' rhetoric to rationalize the reaction to one of the most corrupt, incompetent executive branches in the history of our country.

- Bush* apologists aren't generally welcome around here because we've seen first hand what he has done to our country. That YOU haven't seen it only Demonstrates that you haven't taken the time to do the research necessary to find the whole truth.

[Rebellious Republican]

56. Hey rock you never bothered to answer my questions in that

post. Maybe some of us have more burden in our lives than others. If you are going to put out Rwing talking points here you should expect some flames. I have been flamed on another post defending freedom of speech. So thats there opinion, I am still here and still enjoy looking at someone elses viewpoint, even if it is not my own. Grow up, life is going to be a long hard ride for if you don't.

[Bridget Burke]

58. A summer job for a school kid living with Mom & Dad

Does not mean squat to grown ups who are trying to support themselves.

Now you know.

[sendero]

60. While I.....

... understand and agree with your main point about not discounting any genuine good news in the name of delusion (and this board does tend that way) - your example is a poor one because your point is not well founded.

The economy tanked 15% and it has recovered 1%. You can crow victory but this economy is a long way from "recovered" and personally I don't think it will recover in this decade, at least.

[RetroLounge]

61. Then go back to where you came from...

No one's making you stay here.

of course if you read the posts in this thread, you might learn something.

RL

[Toucano]

62. Your original post said something like

there are jobs out there if people want them.

That's what got you flamed.

Later in the thread, you told an unemployed DUer that he was "doing something wrong" because he couldn't live with your parents and work your $10 per hour job.

You demonstrated complete insensitivity and no empathy for people in different circumstances than yours, which can be described as fortunate at the least.

You took your "good news" and used it to pass judgement on others. That's not a Democratic value.

[Moderator]

63. Locking

please take discussions of Admin Policy to the Ask the Admin Forum