Questions about Pat Buchanan

[taxidriver]

Hey, I thought I'd use my first post to ask a question about one of America's leading conservatives, who is (in a limited way) starting to grow on me...before i get flamed, let me give a few reasons for why i am intrigued by him:

1) He's not a neocon. He talks crap about neocons all the time.
2)He was against the Iraq war.
3)He is against amending the constitution (including the FMA/DOMA?)
4)he isnt an Israeli tool.

what do you all have to say about this? I'd be interested to hear what you think, i know he is a pretty controversial guy.

[Syrinx]

1. Well, he beats Jim Bob

[Elwood P Dowd]

2. Pat was also against NAFTA, GATT, WTO, MFN for China,

CAFTA, FTAA, and a host of other American job killing legislation. Many on this board will call him a racist. He might be on the surface, but many of the very policies he strongly opposes benefit rich white elites and destroy minority workers and families.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

3. well, Pat's kind of an isolationist

he hates the U.N. just like all the good ole boys. He's a supply sider, so he's all about cutting the very rich "a break" while burdening the middle and lower classes with taxation.

The temptation to like Pat comes from his isolationist stance on Iraq, ie. he doesn't like that we invaded. In light of the neo-cons, Pat seems awfully refreshing. Yet, on just about every other issue he's about as paleo-con as you can get. He longs for the 50's, women in the home cooking, men working 9-5 while junior and sis get their education in nice white schools.

I guess what's appealing about him is that he's A) smart and B)anti-neo-con.

The other day i heard him call the neo-con dream of post-war Iraq "utopian", which was about the best explanation ive heard thus far for how the neo-cons imagined things would be.

im still fighting the urge to like him, but he is the lesser of the two evils.

[taxidriver]

8. that's what i was figuring.

thanks.

[Egnever]

4. Add me to the about to get flamed list

I dont agree with pat that often but I do respect him. He tends to speak to his beliefs and not whatever the latest talking point is coming from the RNC.

Sometimes I think hes looney toons and others I find myself nodding my head in agreement.

[Pachamama]

20. Yeah, kinda like when Ralph Nader says something these days...

"Sometimes I think he's looney toons and others I find myself nodding my head in agreement."

[theboss]

32. Except Ralph doesn't compliment Hitler and insult gays

Sigh.

[FarmerOak]

5. Buchanan?

I suppose if crazy, homophobic, xenophobic racist assholes appeal to you, Pat Buchanan would have to be near the top of the list.

[KuroKensaki]

6. Pat Buchanan..

The enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend.
1) Correct, he opposes the neocons, which is a good thing.
2) Correct, he was against the Iraq war, which is a good thing.
3) Correct, he is against amending the Constitution, which EVERY "conservative" should be, which is a good thing.
4) Correct, he isn't an Israeli tool, which is a good thing--EXCEPT that the reason he's not an Israeli tool is because he's a raging anti-Semite.

So while he stands with us on a surprising number of issues--he stands with us for reasons completely contrary to our own.

It's like this one time I saw a website of the modern day KKK.. Concerned Conservative Coalition? Heh, something like that. In any case, they were decrying the deaths of peace protestors in Israel, which I supported... But they were just trying to dig up as much dirt against Israel as they could.

I'm not a fan of Israel, but because of its policies only--anyone who opposes Israel simply because they dislike Jews does not get my respect, whether or not he is against Bush.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. Great post

Sums up my sentiments with no effort on my part

[No2W2004]

7. Buchanan is

what the republican party would be like if the neocons had not taken over.

[liberalnurse]

10. Pat Buchanan does not

try to be anything he is not.....that is respectable. He may be a conservative, and I a liberal...and thats okay. You know where he stands on issues, he does not bullshit with yellow journalism but speaks articulately on his views with a genuine flair.

They are not my views but we can't evolve by the rank and file neocon, ditto-head agenda thats being blasted on most media venues. I enjoy healthy debate on issues. Pat can do his side healthy justice.

[theoceansnerves]

11. he's a fucking...

racist
bigot
sexist
homophobe

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. If he were all those things

why was he opposed to policies that made the rich, white elites even richer and more powerful at the expense of the middle class, poor, and minorities? I think we tend to embellish his negatives to an extreme.

[Demonaut]

21. he is all those things and more, in his own words he's a bully

and a sadist

[liberalnurse]

17. Yea, like Archie Bunker......

you can bank on his position......I don't believe he is a homophobic or sexist.....He just dosen't approve of gay sex....no one has to agree with it or embrace it....any more that everyone has to eat liver.

[3rdParty]

22. easy there ocean boy

remember that he had a black woman as his running mate in 2000. Something that Kerry would not have the guts to do.

[theboss]

25. I think she was in the John Birch Society

Or something. I really didn't pay the close of attention to him.

Anyway, the point is that he managed to find the craziest black woman in the country to be his running mate.

[alittlelark]

12. Pat Buchanan for President!!!!

I'm serious.

We need a spoiler for the Repugs in this BBV election. He would even pull in my Father-in-Law. He may be bordering on nuts, but we need him on the ticket!!

The Repugs are sponsoring Nader.....perhaps some group could do the same for Pat?....

[rumguy]

13. Well he had one hell of an article in his magazine that eviscerated the

neocons...it's a must read. I mean he works them over...

[idlisambar]

14. He is a conservative populist

I like his economic populism myself, but find his attitude toward immigrants and some of his other socially conservative views unpalatable. As an old-time conservative he also leans toward Jeffersonian isolationism, thus his hostility toward the neocons.

Overall, given the madness of the current political landscape, he is actually a welcome ally as far as I am concerned. 10 years ago, I never thought I would say something like that.

[Donkeyboy75]

16. We're in scary times when a racist sexist asshole

is the lesser of two evils. I agree, I am starting to like him more only because I hate almost everything about the * administration. At least with Buchanan you wouldn't have to worry about duplicity.

[foreigncorrespondent]

18. He is only against...

3)He is against amending the constitution (including the FMA/DOMA?)

Amending the Constitution. He is not a good friend to the LGBT community. And as such doesn't have my respect, or the respect of many of my fellow brothers and sisters, in my community.

He is nothing but a drop kick as far as I am concerned.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

19. There is a tension in American politics

It surrounds the extent to which we should support the Israelis. Randi Rhodes refuses to talk about it.

[terrya]

23. Pat Buchanan is a neandethal on social issues.

I just can't, in good conscience, jump on the "Pat Buchanan is a pretty decent guy after all" bandwagon. He's vehemently anti-choice on abortion, a horrid homophobe (and he does support FMA). And a ardent anti-feminist. He was raised doctrinaire Roman Catholic and it guides his moral philosophy.

[nightperson]

28. I'm a pro-choice fanatic.

And I don't claim that he is a good guy. He is very interesting to me because he is helping fill 3 freakin' voids of: 1. Readable and even entertaining political writers 2. People of either party who will question global entanglements and general interventionism 3. People from either party who will freakin' say boo about what even Thomas Friedman calls the fanatical settler movement in Israel. If Thomas Friedman (with a personal interest in Israel let's face it greater than 90+% of America) can ask these questions, why the heck is the mainstream American Democratic Party utterly silent? :shrug: One of the things I liked about Dean despite my preference for Kerry was that Dean dared to speak up about Israel for about 1/2 a minute before being told to rejoin the silent ranks. The silence on Israel is deafening and just look at the subject of this thread, if someone is being helped by all this it sure isn't the Democratic Party. Is it not long past time to ask, why do pro-choicers have to read Buchanan on foreign policy?

[theboss]

31. Buchanan is not anti-settler

He is anti-Israel. Over the years, he has let it be known that he would lose no sleep if Israel ceased to exist.

A taste of Pat:

"Those of us in childhood during the war years were introduced to Hitler only as a caricature…Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier’s soldier in the Great War, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him. But Hitler’s success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

"Who speaks for the Euro-Americans, who founded the U.S.A.? …Is it not time to take America back?"

"After World War II, Jewish influence over foreign policy became almost an obsession with American leaders."

"There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in The Middle East – the Israeli Defense Ministry and its amen corner in the United States."

[LTR]

24. I'm not a big Buchanan guy

In fact, I often think he's nuts.

Fifteen years ago, I thought he was the most insane man in America. But I have gained a little respect for him now because, agree or disagree with him, he kisses ass to no one. He's an old-time conservative, a Goldwaterite that veers away from the late Senator's moderate stance on certain social issues (environment, abortion, gay rights), and veers right on moral and economic issues. A conservative who is smart enough to realize than Bush's policies are far from truly conservative, and is not afraid to say it.

We need more right-wingers like Pat. Bush should be attacked from the right, since he has veered away from nearly everything that is purely conservative into some sort of facist neocon hell.

I may not agree with Pat on everything, but I sure as hell hope he keeps talking.

[THUNDER HANDS]

26. Buchanan is great in small doses

The more you listen to him though, the more you see that he's really very clueless on a lot of things.

[theboss]

27. His speeches read better in the Original German

The embracing of Buchanan by some Leftists is one the most alarming trends in politics of the last 15 years.

Let's take a look at the record.

1. Began his career as a speechwriter for Nixon.
2. Extremely pro-Vietnam War (due to the point of thinking nuclear weapons were a legitimate option).
3. Last man for Nixon during Watergate (still thinks he got railroaded).
4. Reagan speech-writer.
5. Was the standard bearer for the Pro-Life movement through most of the 80s through today).
6. Has written an alarming number of articles saying the Nazis weren't so bad. In fact, wrote a book stating that the US should never have fought Germany in WWII.
7. Arranged for Reagan to visit an SS Cemetary in Germany.
8. Defended accused concentration camp guards in print on numerous occasions.
9. Is so anti-Israel, it makes your teeth hurt.
10. Gave the nastiest speech in modern American political history in 1992:

George Bush is a defender of right to life, and life-long champion of the Judeo-Christian values and beliefs upon which this nation was built.

Mr. Clinton, however, has a different agenda. At its top is unrestricted abortion on demand. When the Irish-Catholic governor of Pennsylvania, Robert Casey, asked to say a few words, on behalf of the 25 million unborn children destroyed since Roe v. Wade, he was told there was no place for him at the podium of Bill Clinton's convention, no room at the inn.

Yet, a militant leader of the homosexual rights movement could rise
at that convention and exult: ''Bill Clinton and Al Gore represent the most pro-lesbian and pro-gay ticket in history.'' And so they do.

Bill Clinton supports school choice - but only for state-run schools.
Parents who send their children to Christian schools, or Catholic schools, need not apply.

Elect me, and you get two for the price of one, Mr. Clinton says of his lawyer-spouse. And what does Hillary believe? Well, Hillary believes that 12-year-olds should have a right to sue their parents, and she has compared marriage as an institution to slavery - and life on an Indian reservation.

Well, speak for yourself, Hillary.

Friends, this is radical feminism.

The agenda Clinton & Clinton would impose on America - abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat - that's change all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants.

11. Thinks Reagan is equal to Washington.
12. Really really hates gays and feminists.
13. Not so crazy about the blacks either.

[terrya]

29. Buchanan was the speaker at the 1992 convention who declared...

the "culture war" against gay people, right? I remember both he and Pat Robertson spoke at the Houston convention.

And any time I read that "militant leader of the homosexual rights movement" crap, I want to puke. Pure homophobe.

And what is it with Buchanan and the Nazis, anyway? I remember Buchanan was quoted as saying that Hitler was a "great military leader".

I get somewhat uneasy reading the stuff praising Buchanan on DU.

[theboss]

30. Buchanan has offended gays, blacks, Jews, and women innumerable times

He is not on our side. Those that see him as a limited ally have the same mentality as the feminist anti-porn crusaders who team up with the Christian Right.

[Shopaholic]

33. Buchanan is a complex character

there's a lot to admire (he's not a complete right-wing nut), and he clearly knows the lay of the land in DC. But then he'll say something so totally off the wall that I think he should be in an insane asylum somewhere. I do respect his opinion though, even if I don't always agree with him.

[theboss]

34. What is there to admire exactly?

He's a very good writer with very dangerous ideas. The reason he is "on our side" regarding the war is he doesn't think it's the responsibility of white European culture to get involved with violent darkies.