Senate Armed Services Committee Meeting....Thread #3

[proud patriot]

Thread 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1575399&mesg_id=1575399

Thread 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1575937&mesg_id=1575937

[0007]

1. Talent blaming Clinton for today's problem.

[0007]

12. Take about a cirlce jerk!!

[soup]

13. took them long enough, hey?

:eye roll:

50. Woolsey already has

(ex CIA director -in case I have the spelling wrong)

was blaming Clinton on NPR the other day, I almost threw the radio across the room

[The empressof all]

21. Come on now

Don t you know by now if it has anything to do with sex the Clenis is involved.

[Solly Mack]

2. Talent going through the big book of metaphor...

cliche and quaint sayings

he may, or may not, be getting to a point

[soup]

3. thanks, proud patriot.

Talent -

needed funding in the 90's maybe we wouldn't be sitting here?

Here we go. Blame Clinton.

[proud patriot]

11. Your Welcome

:donut:

[Ann Arbor Dem]

4. Talent is trying to place blame on Clinton

for the current situation of the armed forces. WTF?!?!?

[central scrutinizer]

23. Reminds me of the Al Franken story

He tells it often: Shortly after the operation in Afghanistan when the Taliban and Al Qaeda were routed (before they were called off and sent to Iraq) Franken was at a dinner with Wolfowitz and said to him, "Boy, didn't Clinton's army do a great job in Afghanistan?" Wolfowitz's response; "Fuck you."

[Failure]

5. I knew it wouldn't take long to blame Clinton for this...

"more funding in the 90's and we wouldn't be sitting here"

Talent.


fucker.


failure.

[IkeWarnedUs]

6. MP's training in Geneva Convention

Smith just said that the MP's got MORE training in the Geneva Convention than regular army.

That goes against what CBS's 60 Minutes II said.

<snip>

The Army investigation confirms that soldiers at Abu Ghraib were not trained at all in Geneva Convention rules. And most were reservists, part-time soldiers who didn't get the kind of specialized prisoner of war training given to regular Army members.

link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml


LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[soup]

17. good catch!

[Solly Mack]

19. Actually, MP's do get MORE training on Geneva...as to whether these

particular soldiers did is another question..they may have very well been deployed without a refresher from basic or the advanced course regular army MP's get...however, MP reservists DO get the advanced training

My husband is an MP, just for reference

[LittleApple81]

7. Talent: BLAMING CLINTON NOW!!!!! reduced the funding for the

army so it is Clinton's fault that this unit was so badly led and supervised!!!!

[central scrutinizer]

28. a real logician

Nothing happened, but if it did happen, it wasn't our fault, even though we were in charge.

[kentuck]

8. Bring in the "civilian" employees if you want some answers....

Only the CIA would have such open access to prisoners. Those decisions are made and approved at the very top. Guess who?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

9. There you go - Blaming Clinton!!

What isn't he responsible for?

[SEAburb]

10. Talent blames Clinton /nt

<<<<<<>>>>>>>

[maddezmom]

14. Talent...blaming it on the admin in the 90's ~ it's Clenis all over again

:puke:

[displacedtexan]

15. Do you need to see a pic of sodomy w/ a chem light ...

in order to understand that this is WRONG?

There be Nazis!

[LittleApple81]

16. If they KNEW the army was in such bad shape WHY GO TO IRAQ!

[LittleApple81]

20. Besides RUMSFELD was the one that wanted to REDUCE the human

component in the army to make it leaner and meaner and cheaper and with more contractors.

[lumpy]

Rummy's analysis (leaner and meaner)

was confirmed by his point man, Steven Cambone.

[Oddman]

18. This hearing is bullshit . . .

Nothing at all coming out . . .Nelson needs a new rug!

[LittleApple81]

24. I think his rug is cute... it looks like a cheese souffle. n/t

[LittleApple81]

29. Wasn't Chambliss the one whose campaign smeared McClelland?

So how come now he respects the military?

[Failure]

33. yep...compared Cleland to bin laden...ass. nt

[PaDUer]

61. All these hearings are

BS, just a "front" and go through the motions..

[leftchick]

Nelson = Fire Marshal Bill!

Everytime I see him all I can think of is Jim Carey doing Fire Marshal Bill on that great old show, In Living Color!

[Tinoire]

22. Go Nelson! Taguba: I stopped at General Karpinski!

Good!

Now start climbing boys! The buck does not stop at Karpinski.

[Q]

25. They gave Clinton's military credit until it didn't benefit them

....politically. RWingers said they did great in the invasion...but now that there's a scandal it's Clinton's fault.

- Could it have something to do with the 'bring em on', with us or with the terrorists' tone the insane CIC Bush* set and his lies about the need to invade Iraq in the first place?

[LittleApple81]

26. see my posts 16 and 20. n/t

[Solly Mack]

27. "lack of clarity of command"

whoa whoa whoa...why only AG? hmmm...what was going on at AG that this "fragment" order was only applied at AG?


smells covert to me...

[Gin]

30. so is Taguba saying it's all the guards fault? and has nothing to do with

the upper levels?

[LittleApple81]

32. I have no idea what is going on here, but that is what repugs want.

Therefore that is the way they will lead the questions.

[Solly Mack]

35. a lack of traning is a command issue

and blame rest with command for that

but he also said the soldiers took the pictures on their own

bottomline..seems to be a heck of a lot of protecting of certain levels of command is going on...and the soldiers will take the fall for most if not all...

[Egnever]

47. I think you would do yourself a favor if you read the summary

It has been leaked and is available on the net here

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/prisoner_abuse_pentagon.pdf

I have to say i agree with Chablis's characterization that the soldiers can stand taller after reading his straightforward report. Taguba did an awesome job IMHO and spared no one from the light of this investigation. He did stop ad kapinski but that is because it was what he was directed to do.

Read the report it is very enlightening. This goes further than Kapinski without question but his report is very thorough with no regard for rank
when assigning responsibility. If our whole army was conducting itself in the professional manner he has shown in his report we would not be in the position we are today.

He definitely is not making excuses.

[PaDUer]

66. It was going on at

Camp Bucca also...why aren't they talking about it?

[Tinoire]

31. "A few dysfunctional individulas" Yeah right Saxby. n/t

[displacedtexan]

34. Taguba: battalion commander 'invoked his rights.'

Took the fifth?

Whoa!

[LittleApple81]

37. Who ws the battalion commander? n/t

[LittleApple81]

42. Dayton!!! I hope he does not feel muzzled. n/t

[displacedtexan]

45. I don't remember.

It'll be in the transcript.

[Failure]

39. they're all lying...nt

[PaDUer]

68. Definitely ALL lying!

Trying to contain whatever they can because by now, these troops have been TOLD to shut up or else!

[LittleApple81]

36. He showed his respect for military when he smeared McClelland to

get the senate job. And isn't there some question about the voting machines in use when he was elected?

[0007]

40. Chambliss is puzzled why didn't anyone come and tell General

Ryder that the abuses were still going on while he was there

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[0007]

48. I've decided to send the following patients to see Nurse England

Inhofe, Sessions, Allard and Jim Talent for a rectum test at Camp Abu Ghraid.

Joh Warner had his last week, but still hasn't shaped up. He will be returning again soon.

[Solly Mack]

41. If it didn't go above the BN level, that's on the BN commander

but I have a hard time believing it didn't rise above the BN level...

[LittleApple81]

43. Dayton is GREAT! Bush and Cheney want no questions asked, just

let them continue running the war.

[soup]

51. Yes!

Dayton - 'procedures policies protocols' - then the pics.

'Pentagon to use 'best judgment' on release of pics, we've seen where it's gotten us so far.'

We sure have Senator Dayton, we sure have.

[Bonhomme Richard]

44. You are not getting it.

This is standard operating procedure for dealing with detainees. This is nothing but a show to control the damage and shift the story. The only thing that is going to change here is the soldiers access to cameras.
And they all know it, democrat and republican.

[Tinoire]

52. Except that the Dems do want to use this to get Bush out & bring Kerry in

Nodody here wants to get to the truth of the matter because sadly it was a bi-partisan effort that got us where we are today.

This scandal involves the NSA, the CIA, Military Intel, the Pengtagon, 3rd party nationals.

They dare not dig too much because they're all sitting in that house of cards.

Somebody please get Kucinich in there. This is what he's good at.

[Solly Mack]

59. Yep!! dig too deep...all the secrets come out

[Egnever]

62. Hoorah!

Well said as allways Tin! Lots of people squirming on this one and the dems are doing themselves a disservice IMHO when they attempt to sensationalize this rather than dig for the facts.

[aquart]

46. Who is this who speaks of "sanitizing"?

[LizW]

53. Mark Dayton - D - Minnesota

[0007]

Clinton just rebuked Cornyn

[Ann Arbor Dem]

49. What did Warner just say to Dayton?

I had to answer the phone and missed it. It seems to have really pissed Dayton off.

[LizW]

56. He said

that the Pentagon had not made a final decision whether to release the rest of the pictures yet.

Dayton looked like he wanted to call Warner a liar right to his face.

[Ann Arbor Dem]

58. Thanks, LIzW

[Spazito]

54. Anyone notice that CNN seems to cut away when it is the democrats'...

time to ask questions? It is becoming blatant, imo!

[LittleApple81]

57. Use C-Span. Is nice to check CNN's misbehavior, but if you want

complete reporting you must use C-Span.

[Spazito]

60. I have CSPAN for sound and CNN for visuals, it has been VERY...

interesting for sure! They cut away when the dems ask questions and have "talking heads on" and then go back when it is a repubs time to speak.

[TeeYiYi]

64. That is sick . . .

. . . I don't have CNN but someone needs to call them on their blatant bias.

TYY

[PaDUer]

86. Yes, CNN must be called on this...

also, boycott their station because they're part of the problem and are cooperating w/ the liars! Wonder how much $ they were given!

[LittleApple81]

65. This might work against them. It is so obviously biased, it might bite

them in the butt.

[Spazito]

72. They ARE covering Hillary's questioning...

even CNN wouldn't break away from that, thank goodness!

[LittleApple81]

55. Dayton read description of what was done to prisoners. Good.n/t

[Lindsey]

63. Hillary up now

so far this has been an outrage - I'm sick at my stomach.

[Egnever]

67. My god I am not the huge fan of bill that many here are but...

So far Hillary has been absolutely stunning in her questioning! This woman is just outstanding!

[revcarol]

81. Hey guys...

please be specific...cube dwellers...what did she actually ASK of whom and was was the actual answer?

[Tinoire]

69. Hillary showing more guts than the rest of them

focusing on General Miller. Go Hillary! You did your homework on this one and you're handling Taguba like a fine lawyer. Thank you!

[Egnever]

71. She seems to be the only one with the balls to take this thing head on

Without making it a partisan issue. Bassed on her performance in these hearings alone I would willingly get behind a bid of hers for the presidency.

[readmylips]

73. Hillary focusing on Cobune, Asst to Rumbutt...

Cobune was the one who recruited Miller to take over ...

Smith lying...you at Hillary's face...wants to call him lier.

[Solly Mack]

70. Ha! go Clinton!!

connection between Miller's "fragmentary" order..and actions of guards.

[maddezmom]

79. focusing on Pappas taking orders from Miller

Pappas is being implicated now for the new procedure, he was the MI officer in charge at the time.

Pappas reported to CJTF7, isn't that Sanchez?

[Solly Mack]

88. Yes..note how they aren't saying his name

[maddezmom]

91. yes, they seem to not want to say Pappas or Boykin

who are all connected to Miller....and Sanchez.

[Solly Mack]

74. Graham up

[Solly Mack]

78. He just asked what I wondered

why was AG run differently...

[SayitAintSo]

80. He just seems to grandstand to me...

He loves the camera too much

[Solly Mack]

84. true...but I was wondering and he asked...

though he didn't get an answer :(

[Spazito]

75. Why was Taguba limited in the scope of his investigation....

if there was no wrongdoing higher than Karpinski?

[Failure]

76. Didn't take graham long to screw up...

he said that only one prison was run like this...I don't think that statement was supported by fact.


failure.

[displacedtexan]

77. WTF happened to Lindsey Graham?

Did I just detect a heart?

He says we should treat Saddam under strict Geneva Conventions and allow the Red Cross in.

[SayitAintSo]

83. Don't be fooled ....

Remember the Clinton impeachment hearings ....

[maddezmom]

87. he was a JAG officer for 20 yrs

defending the honor of good men left in the military.

[soup]

82. 'just having a good time in a perverted way '- Graham.

Odd way to put it.

[SayitAintSo]

85. He should know ....n/t

[PaDUer]

90. Evan Bayh up now...n/t

[0007]

94. What happened to the "Rape and Murder" that Graham was sprewing

the other day? It appears Graham is backing off quite a bit.

[LittleApple81]

96. Help me here. Did his last statements say that even though Rumsfeld

should not be taking the fall for this, he DID DIMINISH the conduct of the war? When he said this, he was interrupted by Warner.

[SayitAintSo]

89. Rumsfeld should not take the fall for others ...

If others broke the law

[SayitAintSo]

92. Bayh up ... yawn....

Nothing to see here ....

[displacedtexan]

95. But Graham added that Rumsfeld had diminished the military...

WTF is going on here?

I don't trust Graham as far as I could throw him.

Is he trying to jockey for position in a post Bush* repuke party?

[LittleApple81]

102. Good. This answers my question. I thought I heard that he said

this and then was interrupted by genious Warner.

[Tinoire]

93. Graham (-R) - former JAG (Legal) Officer

explains why he's doing a better job with this than the other Republicans. Still... had to mess it all up by protecting Rumsfeld at the end.

[Solly Mack]

97. Seems it's protect cRummy day

[LittleApple81]

99. But I think he said he should not take fall but he DID diminish the

correct conduct of the war. Am I mistaken?

[Solly Mack]

101. He did and you're not

[Tinoire]

104. On edit: Thanks SollyMack!

Can someone answer LittleApple81?

I stepped away and didn't hear. I'd like to know too...

On edit: Thanks SollyMack!

[Tinoire]

100. In that case, let's hope it's a wasted day ;)

;) Rummy needs to go. And Feith. Wolfowitz... the entire cabal including that smirking chimp. He's not smirking now is he? lol

[Solly Mack]

103. Nope..seems that smirk has been wiped clean for a while

and they all need to go....

[maddezmom]

98. Baye: Practical Tactical Control of Abu Ghraib was MI (ie Pappas)

[proud patriot]

105. please continue in thread 4 here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1576704