dsc
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Wed May-12-04 01:00 PM
Original message |
An explanation of my poll (on homosexuality) |
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Edited on Wed May-12-04 01:05 PM by dsc
What I was getting at was the fact that even though women were in that prison, even though women were guards, they still relied on man on man activity to humiliate. This is also despite the apparent youth of the guards. Supposedly there is a great generational divide on this issue and those guards are on the right side of it. So it does beg the question, to what extent are we or are we not making progress in advancing the idea that homosexuality is not shameful.
Link to poll in question
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soleft
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Wed May-12-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message |
1. It has not escaped me that the revelation the abuse inclused women and |
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children has not created a higher level of outrage. Because at first people were saying - oh no - what if we get evidence that women and children were also abused - then the shit will really hit the fan, but there was no elevated sense of rage.
It's almost as tho we're more used to women and children being the victims of brutal sexual abuse, that the sexual abuse of men does create greater outrage in the minds of some.
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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It is as simple as that. If the video of the boy being raped is released it will make this other stuff look like the frat party Rush would like us to believe it was.
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JustFiveMoreMinutes
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Wed May-12-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Sorry, I missed something.. |
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Edited on Wed May-12-04 01:21 PM by JustFiveMoreMinutes
"So it does beg the question, to what extent are we or are we not making progress in advancing the idea that homosexuality is not shameful."
Sorry, but what does homosexuality have to do with RAPE?
RAPE is shameful... regardless of the 'sexuality'.
As for perhaps your true intent of the question, I personally don't think it has to do with sexuality at all, but again the Male-machoistic mindset of Power.
Being Penetrated is a sign of weakness... women or men... doing the penetrating is a sign of strength/power.
It's psychological, not sexual.
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
5. I was referring to the conduct in the pictures and nothing else |
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as that is the parts of what happened in Iraq which seem to be common interrogation techniques.
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JustFiveMoreMinutes
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Wed May-12-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
6. Would it be any different? |
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... if the pix contained males & females?
Now THAT truly would be sad if the photos had both males & females naked and/or forcing to copulate .. and the reaction from the general public would be different!
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
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and that is part of what I am wondering. Given the paucity of male/female activity in comparison to the male/male activity.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Wed May-12-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
8. Rape is shameful? Wrong |
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People feel shamed when they are raped but to BE RAPED is not shameful. To RAPE is.
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JustFiveMoreMinutes
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Wed May-12-04 03:38 PM
Original message |
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I'll have to agree with you! (but wish I didn't have too).
Again back to the male-macho-power-trip of being 'in control' is strength, giving up control (by force or compliance) is weakness.
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smirkymonkey
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Wed May-12-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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and in my opinion, that is exactly what this is all about: Power and humiliation.
It wasn't about sex at all.
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cheezus
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Wed May-12-04 01:22 PM
Response to Original message |
4. homophobia (and latent homosexuality?) are rampant in mid america |
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I'm graduating from the university this spring (after 6 years, sheesh), and things have changed. The young guys on this campus are always calling their friends girls, making homosexual jokes about eachother whenever possible, simulating homosexual sex acts on eachother to amuse/humiliate (and this is towards their FRIENDS!). There seems to be a fixation on homosexuality amongst (assumedly) heterosexual males between 18 and 24 on this campus. so anyway, it doesn't surpise me that many of these kids get shipped over there and exhibit the same kind of behavior. I just don't understand it, and it seems to be just the middle america hicks who act like this. Perhaps it's that homosexuality is a (according to tv) socially accepted lifestyle, yet people here still feel it's wrong. Those with latent homosexual urges seem to have the greatest need to berate others for being "gay"
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HFishbine
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Wed May-12-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message |
9. I think your missing the point entirely |
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It seems to me that the matter is not whether it was man-on-man, but that it was coerced. Forcing someone to simulate a sex act upon another, whether man-on-man, woman-on-woman, or man-on-woman is what's abhorrent and humiliating.
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. Then why did they aparently only force them into homosexual conduct |
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and why do all the manuals apparently only mention that? I think it brings up an interesting point on the state of this issue.
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HFishbine
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Wed May-12-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
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Because most people are straight and being forced into a sex act that was against your sexuality would add additional humiliation. Both would be horrid, but which would be most humiliating to you, forced to simulate sex with a member of the same sex or the opposite sex?
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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That is a valid point presumedly most people are straight and that might be what it is. I just wonder about the repetative recurrance of this theme is all.
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HFishbine
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Wed May-12-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
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an underlying cultural bias being played upon, that's probably there. My understanding is that homosexuality is even less acceptable in the Arab world (although, I admit that's just what I hear) which would make the humiliation deeper.
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drfemoe
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Wed May-12-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
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if 'we' don't get enough reinforcement for whatever point is the point here, there will be another thread... and another .. and another.. I guess. Talk about trying to use the torture situation to advance an agenda . . .
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
15. I really didn't deserve that |
drfemoe
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Wed May-12-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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Edited on Wed May-12-04 04:58 PM by drfemoe
Some people can throw pity parties 'til the cows come home. Evidently DU doesn't care.
I had gotten a nasty message and was trying to explain myself From: dsc Date: May 12th 2004 but you can screw yourself for all I care. *** And .. sending ME a nasty message resolves your situation exactly how?
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
23. your nasty missive here came first |
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though I shouldn't have sent you that in all fairness but it came after your viscious post here. But if it made you feel better to be cruel to me I am glad I made your day a little better. I wouldn't want you to actually have to ignore a thread instead of being a bully in public. Wouldn't want you not to feel better. Glad I could help you.
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drfemoe
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Wed May-12-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
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DU would limit this conversation to your original thread. Tradition seems to have flown the coop.
I don't have anything against you personally, and I know you rather well (though it wouldn't surprise me if you don't remember). I'm just disgusted that this board is becoming almost useless, partly due to a new "anything goes" trend.
ps..when I posted in the original thread this am, I was sleep deprived. It happens even in the free world.
I'm still of the opinion this topic should have been limited to the original thread.
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
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but you have heard of the alert button, have you not? I am sorry for my reaction. As to knowing you you would have to jog my memory as I don't recall.
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drfemoe
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Wed May-12-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
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the Alert button is still working, and yes, I did express my opinion .. thus my statement "Evidently ..."
The x thread is not working today, though I never use it except in the Metting Room forum anyway .. servers overloaded because DU has become a show for freeper-dom. And we get to pay for it.
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. I have never tried the x thread function |
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so I didn't know it wasn't working.
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drfemoe
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Wed May-12-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
28. I only use it for the prayer chains and such |
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in the MR. Threads stay around forever in that forum. For more info on server overload >> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=announcement&id=60Peace!
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TrogL
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Wed May-12-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message |
12. We haven't seen all the pix yet |
dsc
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Wed May-12-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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which is why I mentioned the manuals etc. Evidently these people want way beyond what those manuals suggest doing.
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cally
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Wed May-12-04 04:14 PM
Response to Original message |
18. I've been wondering about this question |
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since I first saw the pics. The rumors are that women were raped and humiliated and something very bad happened to a young 12 year old girl. We haven't seen those pictures yet but I've seen very little outrage about it. Still, the torture we have seen is to simulate or actually take part in homosexual sex acts. Most are saying this has to do with humiliation in the Muslim world. While true, I think it also has to do with the US homophobia.
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dsc
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Wed May-12-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
19. If and when the pics show up |
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there will be boocoo outrage. Sadly it takes pictures or videos to really stir outrage.
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corporatewhore
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Wed May-12-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message |
22. i think that rape would be more traumatic if |
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you were straight man and were raped by another man same goes if you were a lesbian and raped by a man or anumber of any different combos
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