look at these two photos, one of berg, one of lyndie england

[mopaul]

and look at the chairs. just another interesting anomaly in this bizarre story.

[Tim4319]

1. One of the things that make you say,

Hmmmmmmm!

[No2W2004]

2. the chair is also in this picture

That chair is the mastermind....it is


EEEEEVVIIIILLLL!

[politicat]

4. and in this one.

Upper right hand corner.

Yes, you're right.

It's the chair's fault. All those petrochemicals bound into an incredibly uncomfortable, non-ergonomic, non-breathable shape finally snapped and went off the deep end.

(This is not to count myself out of the tin hat group. Nor to count myself into it. But damn, there aren't that many plastic chairs of that type in my whole town!)

Pcat

[Devils Advocate NZ]

18. So why weren't all these soldiers charged as well?

In this one picture, you can count 8 uniformed soldiers (although one appears to be wearing a European pattern uniform rather than Desert pattern).

Now I know 6 soldiers have been charged, but this photo PROVES there are at least two more that should be charged - why haven't they?

[neebob]

23. Does anyone who saw that horrid little mugwump

on 60 Minutes II doubt that the chair is the brains of the outfit?

[displacedtexan]

24. Compare the far wall's paint color here and in the Berg photo!

Yep! It appears to be the exact same freepin' color to me!

I am usually extremely skeptical, but this makes me go hhhhhhhmmmmmmmm... BIG TIME!

[uncle ray]

31. i'm with you brother!

i can't believe all these morans are blaming the chair and letting the wall off scott free!

[mopaul]

35. that wall is highly suspicious

i say the chair deserves equal blame as the wall. the walls have ears and should have told the chair.

but the timing of the beheading video and the orange jumpsuit and all the other crazy shit floating around is seriously overworking my already highly damaged brain.

[lebkuchen]

3. your basic plastic PX chair

I can tell you the price in 2 hours.

[sniffa]

5. bLame the chair

the chair has undercut the moraLe of our troops.
the chair is poLiticizing the war.

vote the chair in 2004.

[bowens43]

6. More anomalies

http://rense.com/general52/anom.htm

[Frederic Bastiat]

7. So what?

Evidence like this would literally get you laughed out of a court.

[mopaul]

9. I ain't in court. it aint' evidence. it's just another contribution to DU

i just threw it in with all the other whacko shit going around, don't attack me.

considering what bushco has been up to for 4 years, and their secrecy, and all this shit hitting the fan, there's gonna be tons of conspiracy theories.

[Frederic Bastiat]

12. I'm not attacking you

I'm just hoping we can raise the Berg discussion bar above cheap furniture and fake gold rings.

[Solomon]

25. Why? Everything is fair

game.

[LifeDuringWartime]

8. hahahaha

thats pretty funny....i wonder where else we can spot it??

[mopaul]

10. i have 3 in my backyard

your sitting in one now

[murielm99]

17. Kinda like "Where's Waldo?"

[Spentastic]

20. Yeah

The evil chair is here too

http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/crees/outreach/Rzeszow.htm

I'm trying to find more on this global picnic chair conspiracy

Who are these people?

http://www.brynosaurus.com/album/2002/0713-MidsummersEve/

My god it gets worse

http://heidiscabins.com/cabin_nojs.htm

http://www.everythingfordolls.com/outdoor_page.htm

There's even a junior terrorist chair set!

[PsychoDad]

11. note the color of the walls...

That sorta yellow color.

[CWebster]

13. It is just one more thing--one more puzzle piece

along with an entire web of inter-locking pieces.

People who joke about this or sneer about the chair out of context with the rest of the evidence are missing the entire picture.

[mopaul]

15. the info is flowing in, we are collecting it, some will be thrown out

some of it will be proven right. i won't ridicule any theories, even though i didn't propose one. i just posted something i read this morning, like anyone else.

[Gin]

21. Nick Berg is dead..that's a fact....how he died is suspicious....the

timing is suspicious...finding a beheaded body on an overpass and identifying it so quickly is suspicious. Then a video to explain a beheaded body is suspicious.

This story benefited the cabal..it took the heat off them and put it on the "terrorists."

Could they have staged a video to redirect the anger? Is the pope polish?

Remember...white is black...hot is cold..up is down...with this group.

[Octafish]

14. It shows that the guards and Al Qaeda shop at the same place.

Probably Wal-mart.

It's not nutty to observe "co-incidences." What's crazy is to ignore the pattern:

9-11 / GENOA links -- Hatfield dies.
ENRON about to blow up -- Baxter dies.
ABU GRAIB about to blow up -- Berg dies.

Gee. That's one interesting jump suit. Is it standard-issue Wal-mart?

[Quahog]

16. It's another bizarre coincidence!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[trumad]

19. It's all legitimate folks

Orange Jump suit, same plasitc chair, white captors, funny video, Negroponte, ....

if you don't think that anythings possible with this regime then you're behind the 8-Ball...

[EV1Ltimm]

22. oh sweet jesus! they have kmarts in baghdad!!!

[ArkDem]

26. If you look very closely, you can find

Waldo.

[stickdog]

27. IMHO, the chair is far too good

for Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

[happynewyear]

28. More observations

Admittedly, I stole this from another person who has noted the following details:

Here is a list of observations put together regarding the Berg video...

1. the room is the same color yellow as the abuse photos at Abu Ghraib prison.

2. the white plastic chair berg is sitting in at the beginning of the tape can be seen in the background of one of the abuse photos.

3. Berg is clean, groomed, unbound, unrestrained, and *calm* at the beginning of the tape.

4. the insurgents are overweight.

5. the insurgent on the left is wearing glasses...and he fits the physical description of the soldier with glasses seen in the abuse pictures.

6. the insurgent, 2nd to the left appears to be wearing the same shoes as a soldier seen in one of the abuse photos.

7. the insurgent refers to our prisoners as "detainees"...this is a US term, not a term a terrorist would use.

8. the insurgent reads the text from the sheets of paper, passionless.

9. we never actually see Berg executed.

10. why is there no blood?

11. Berg is attacked with the knife by the ski masked insurgent, but when the camera pans out its the "white shrouded" one who is doing the beheading.

12. eleven hours disappear in the time code between the time Berg is attacked and his throat is slashed.

13. the "white shrouded man" holding up bergs head at the end of the tape is not the same "white shrouded" man...he is darker, thinner, smaller, and shorter.

14. according to the time code, berg would have had to have been beheaded prior to when they attacked him in the tape.

15. the ending footage, when they hold up Berg's head, looks fake. it looks like bad CGI.

[mopaul]

37. AND the men are hooded, yet the c.i.a. confirms it's al quaeda

they even know the name of the man speaking, but we don't see him speaking. just like the day after 9-11, they had this list of names an photos to go with them. how?

[bloom]

56. The official word seems to be

the perpetrator is from Jordan, also. And yet CNN had an expert on the other day who said the accent/voice was NOT Jordanian and the text had been mistranslated. No mention of Al Quaeda.

[bushgottago]

43. And - al-Zarqaw has one leg!

Pretty nimble for an amputee.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

62. An he's DEAD!

Pretty nimble for a DECEASED amputee - well that's what the CIA said before this video came out.

[HamdenRice]

29. Why the chair matters ...

Those of you who laugh about the chair are notlooking at it in context -- in the context of all the other anomolies and in the context of Iraq.

Let me spell it out for you: Iraq has been under sanctions for many years so that very few American imports were allowed in. Although cheap plastic Walmart chairs are ubiquitous in the US they would not be available in Iraq, pre war.

Since the war, the biggest importer into Iraq has been the coalition forces. (A shortage of plywood in the US is caused by the massive demand for plywood by American forces, for example.)

At a minimum, the chair links the killers with some group that has access to and knowledge of this newly available cheap American import.

Or, more ominously, if these chairs are primarily (or only) imported by US forces and government, then it is one more link between Berg's killers and government issued material, like the orange jumpsuit.

Or since chairs are obviously used in American run prisons, and Berg was in an American run prison according to the family, this is cirumstantial evidence that the killing took place in an American run prison.

[Spentastic]

32. What?

It would appear that people here are unable to believe that the people in that video are thinking actors. I believe in the real world it's called grasping at straws.

What if they needed a chair and just nicked one from the U.S forces? I doubt that these chairs are heavily guarded military assets. I'd bet there are thousands of these chairs in Iraq now.

What if the kidnappers wanted to send a message about dressing prisoners in orange jumpsuits?

Terrorists procure weapons, explosives and fake documents.

What is so fucking surprising about them managing to procure a fucking chair and a fucking orange jump suit?

[Malva Zebrina]

65. nothing--but why would they?

nt

[southlandshari]

33. I agree the chair pics are jarring, but...

... I think it is worth a mention that these kinds of chairs are not new items in the region. I have a lot of family in Jerusalem and in Jordan and just about every household I've visited has some combo of the "Wal-Mart" white table and chairs set. My in-laws use a set themselves as their kitchen table. Go to any outdoor wedding in that part of the Middle East and you will almost certainly find yourself sitting in a white plastic chair.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, because I think it is creepy that the EXACT same type of chair and walls are seen in the prison and the Berg photos.

[pezcore64]

34. Exactly

that was what i was about to say.

surrounding countries DEFINITELY had those chairs

lol

[HamdenRice]

36. Probative

The point is not that the chair itself is any kind of conclusive evidence. It is that the chair, in the context of the detention of Berg by US forces, the orange jumpsuit, and the many other anomalies is one more probative piece of evidence.

It is analogous to criminal cases in which some circumstantial evidence points to the guilt of a defendant and say, carpet fibres further link the defendant to the crime scene. The fibres may be common in other locations, but the existence of the fibres is further circumstantial evidence in context.

It would be useful to know, if the chairs were available in other countries, how common they were in Iraq.

[Beetwasher]

44. Correct, It's an Accumulation of Evidence and Anomalies

Each one alone is relatively insignificant, but put them together and a picture builds.

I for one am not completely convinced because there are many possible explanations ranging from coincidence to saavy AQ operatives, however, the whole thing does blow my fucking mind.

[0007]

30. What does she have in her hand?

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[Minstrel Boy]

39. The chair AND the wall matter.

The chair alone would not mean much. Place it in context, it's not such a joke.

The walls appear painted the same colour.

It's worth noting that Abu Ghraib was repainted after the US took possession of the prison. So how many walls are painted this colour in Iraq, and with these chairs against them?

Also, let's remember where his body was found. Not in Mosul, where Ansar al-Islam, based in Northern Iraq, may be expected. But on a Baghdad overpass, not far from Abu Ghraib.

[Beetwasher]

42. AND HE WAS IN US CUSTODY DAYS BEFORE HE WAS MURDERED

And the Gov't is lying about that...

[karabekian]

40. I bet most of america has or has sat in a chair like that

pretty common chairs really, I have two on my balcony.

[mopaul]

41. history will remember those chairs as collected evidence

and that's all we can do now, collect incoming evidence. it just happened the other day, the jury is still out.

40 years later we are still debating the particulars of the jfk murders. (plural)


it may seem silly to mention the chairs, and it may prove to have been silly speculation afterall. who knows at this point? it's o.k. to look at all the so called evidence as it comes in.

[Q]

46. All these 'coincidences' would build circumstantial evidence...

...in a criminal case here in America. I've seen people arrested, detained and convicted on less evidence.

- I still can't figure out the motives of the detractors...why they continue to insist that none of this matters. But of course it matters...if justice still has any meaning to the American people.

- When you put all these coincidences together it 'appears' as if this execution was staged with the cooperation of someone connected to the American occupation. The evidence so far points to the 'beheading' taking place in an environment similiar to that where the Iraqi 'prisoners' were tortured. The chair. The walls. The orange prison garb. The 'out of place' executioners.

- The only 'new' information I can offer is that there appears to be a second person holding a camera in the video. You'll find him or her on the extreme right of the video frame dressed in gray. The figure appears for only a matter of seconds.

[Beetwasher]

49. Indeed Q. The Detractors Make it Seem Like We're Actually Drawing

conclusions when all that's being done is observing and collecting the evidence and noting the anamolies and asking questions.

I have no firm position on this, but to dismiss questions is stupid considering all the anomalies of the whole fucked up situation and all the lies this admin. is responsible for. Explanations and possibilities range from bizarre coincidence to saavy AQ operatives to rogue prison guards to CIA execution etc. I have no idea, but it's fucking blowing my mind nonetheless.

[karabekian]

50. just a quick observation and question

it seems many people have a lot vested with this being a hoax or a CIA/* plot. This behavior isn't out of line with al Queda or other muslim extremists. It happens all the time in Chechnya and happened to Daniel Pearle. Do people really doubt that the terrorists could or would do this vile act?

[Beetwasher]

54. No, No One Doubts that And I See No One (or not many) Coming

to any firm conclusions. Only the most strident detractor would claim there are no anomalies and nothing to ask questions about regarding the this whole affair.

[stickdog]

69. The timing of the video release along with the fact that Berg was held

captive by the US until his parents sued the DOD just days before his disappearence is what started all the questioning.

Could a terrorist do this? Sure.

But would they pick exactly this moment to release the first horrific video ever posted to "an al Qaeda website" and then replayed immediately by US corporate media?

Not unless they are as insanely self-defeating as Bush wants us to think they are.

[Joanne98]

70. Who benefits by the timing. BUSH as usual.

[karabekian]

47. true

but this is hardly a smoking gun that the CIA is behind it. I would venture to guess there are millions of these chairs in california alone, let alone the world. I think the sound issues and the blood paterns when his head is cut off are a little more solid if your looking for proof of shadiness .

[dr.strangelove]

53. Calm down about the Damn Chair

I laughed when I saw the chairs and thought it was funny. Conspiracy types always make me laugh. While I grant some conspiracies exist, I personally don't believe George and Rove killed this guy to suppress the outrage over the abuse scandal. sure its possible, and I'll keep an open mind, but I can't believe the crap you people are throwing out regarding chairs and wall colors.

I've been over to Tel Aviv at least 15 times in the past 10 years. One trip I was able to to Kuwait to visit a Navy buddy. In both Isreal and Kuwait, there are THOUSANDS of plastic lawn chairs. If you think Sears and Walmart have the world market on lawn chairs cornered you are insane. Do you really think the people of Iraq have not yet discovered plastic. You think in the years since Gulf War I all chairs were made from steel wood or fashioned out of clay. Plastic shairs are all over the world. People grill outdoors all over the world and eat sitting in plastic chairs. People sit in plastic chairs indoor because they are cheaper than Lazy Boys.

I'm open to evidence of a cover up/scandal, but plastic chairs and painted walls. Please do some more work to convince me.

[mopaul]

58. i'm so ashamed....thanks for the scolding, sometimes i lose perspective

blow me

[dr.strangelove]

61. Nice

[eridani]

68. True

But has most of Iraq?

[jackstraw45]

45. News article about white plastic chairs from 5/10/04

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/living/8617720.htm?1c

America's plastic patio chair is popping up around the world

BY TIM NELSON

Pioneer Press

The Romans left their mark on the world — paved roads, famous archaeological remains, characters in three of Shakespeare's plays. The British, too, dispatched their navy, their tea and their mother tongue to every corner of the globe. If you can say there is an American empire, its surest symbol may be one of its humblest.

Behold the plastic patio chair.

A recent photo of an American Marine, just out of the bitter battle against insurgents in Ramadi, Iraq, showed the exhausted soldier slumped in a white plastic patio chair.

(cut)

[Q]

55. Enough with the chair...it means nothing by itself...

...but lets ask another question: Would the 'on the run, terrorist' executioners of Berg have access to a room painted the same color as the prison walls?

- It's also been proven...through communications with the Iraq embassy and Berg's parents...that he WAS in US custody. Is it simply another coincidence the Berg appears in the video wearing the same type of garb that might have been issued to him during his detention? Doesn't this indicate that he was never released from custody or at the very least didn't have time to change his clothes before being 'captured'?

- What it LOOKS like is that Berg was never released from custody....or perhaps never left the prison were he was being held for 'questioning'.

[karabekian]

57. no one else has access to a room painted white?

or a orange jumpsuit?

I am not completly rejecting this conspiracy theory but keep that in perspective.

[Minstrel Boy]

59. Huge f*cking red flag: Berg was in US military custody, and

the US flatly denies it.

The video shows him in a room the same colour as Abu Ghraib, and in a chair common to the prison.

His body is found in Baghdad, near the prison, but his supposed captors, Ansar Al-Islam, operate in northern Iraq.

Berg worked on a communication tower in Abu Ghraib, and in an email spoke of taking pictures, and acknowledging the appalling conditions.

His supposed killer identifies himself, and though he has well-known face, hides it. Voice analysts say he doesn't have Zaqawi's Jordanian accent. Oh, and he has two legs (and it was just last month, we were told, he grew a second one, after the official story had him an amputee for more than a year.)

The white hands, the posture, the bulk or body armour of the captors.

The orange suit.

Now, his supposed connection to Moussaui, the "20th hijacker."

And so on, and so fucking forth. Yeah, detractors, it's all a big joke.

[Cleita]

48. Cheap plastic lawn chairs. It could be that maybe they are

fairly common in Iraq. :shrug: I know everyone around here has a few to go camping with, or set up an instant patio set for a barbeque.

[veggiemama]

51. Where these chairs available under the sanctions, or did they

come in with the Invasion? Yes, these molded plastic chairs are ubiquitous--I live in rural Ireland and I own a few--but possibly not in Iraq until after the U.S. brought them in.

[karabekian]

52. I am pretty sure they are made in china and span the globe.

I doubt simple chairs like this were not allowed in under sanction. Its only plastic and not that hard to make.

[southlandshari]

60. You are right - chairs nothing new

I am all for questioning the Berg video - there is a lot to question there. I won't ridicule the "same chair in both sets of photos" theory because it is plausible. I just think we need to drop the extension of that theory that these types of chairs weren't found in Iraq pre-invasion.

Maybe this will help. I found this personal blog that has several family/home photos in Iraq that show ye old white plastic table and chairs in the kitchen in June of last year.

http://www.iraqandahardplace.org/article.php?id=1

[ermoore]

63. That's it?

Gosh, you better phone this in to the FBI and the Times. You know, my neighbor has chairs exactly like that . . . in fact, so do about 100 million other people throughout the goddamn world!! Damn, you people are reachin'.

[Piperay]

64. The arms on the chair look

slightly different, they look straight up and down in the front on the chair England is sitting in and slightly curved in front on the one of Berg. :shrug:

I think the white chair in the photo with all the guys around the naked prisoners looks more like the Berg chair.

[freeforall]

66. Yeah, the chair's gotta make you wonder...

although we have the same ones in Canada.



Off topic, but I'm sorry - your graphic is hilarious!

[freeforall]

67. Deleted duplicate