Lyndie England The Scapegoat.

[Solomon]

We all know how excited americans get about a sex scandal. They will use the sex to hide the real torture and abuse.

If it gets too hot, they'll just release a few of the sex pictures. Everyone will bemoan how horrible to see an american (actually just a couple of "bad apples") act like that. The sex is worst than killing and torture. Ask Bill Clinton.

[meegbear]

1. This whole situation is getting more bizarre by the day ...

but then, with this admin, who knows.

[Coventina]

2. SHE IS NOT A SCAPEGOAT!!!!

SHE IS A WAR CRIMINAL!!!!!

She is small potatoes compared to the war criminals at the top: Rummy, Bush, etc.

BUT SHE DOES NOT GET EXCUSED FROM HER OWN ACTIONS!!!!
It was HER RESPONSIBILITY to refuse to obey illegal orders!

[Tinoire]

3. She's definitely a fall guy... Solomon makes an important point

Where are all these people? The ones above Lynndie?


Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr., leaning against the wall and labeled as No. 1, identified four other soldiers in this photograph (Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8) as military intelligence officers. No. 2 is a civilian translator.

<snip>
Graner identified four other soldiers in the photograph, labeled Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the copy provided to NBC News, as military intelligence officers, who he said were in charge of interrogations at the prison. A civilian translator is labeled No. 2, and Graner is No. 1.

<snip>

Rumsfeld: Keep photos private

Rumsfeld said on his flight Thursday to Baghdad that Bush administration lawyers were advising the Defense Department not to publicly release any more photographs of U.S. soldiers’ behavior at Abu Ghraib.

He said the lawyers were concerned that releasing the materials would violate another stricture of the Geneva Conventions against presenting images of prisoners that could be construed as degrading.

House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California agreed Thursday that for now, the photographs should remain private, saying legal concerns, in addition to considerations relating to the Geneva Conventions, may outweigh the need for transparency.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

[Coventina]

11. I want upper heads rolling as well

BUT THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE THE "GRUNTS".

[Hemprus]

6. I agree..

she has to be accountable for her actions. There should be some higher level people, who are responsible for letting things like this happen, indited too.

[nonconformist]

7. Of course she's a scapegoat

How often do you hear about SPC Graner, who was in a few pictures himself?

[Coventina]

10. Unfriggingbelieveable!

Just because someone else is not being publicly reviled as much as she is DOES NOT MAKE ME FEEL SORRY FOR HER ONE BIT!

She has not gotten anything she has not fully deserved.

[Junkdrawer]

4. Women make the best scapegoats....

Ask Martha Stewert...

[sal]

5. As long as we don't see her naked or screwing she can be any goat she want

She's about a dog-faced, chain-smoking, mouth-breathing, low-life piece of white trash I ever seen. Who cares what she thinks? I wish her good luck to her baby monster while in prison.

[Straight Shooter]

8. Considering her family and community background

it seems to me that Lyndie would have done whatever anyone in authority told her to do. I don't think she's even capable of making critical decisions, just like the rest of bush's followers. There were other women soldiers there, too. Perhaps they didn't prove to be as accommodating as Lyndie and that's why she was chosen as the instrument to carry out the orders from higher up.

I'm not excusing her. I loathe her mindset of stupidity. But the blame goes to those who saw the disgusting potential in her and fine-tuned it into a reality.

[happynewyear]

12. my thoughts on Lynndie England

I saw her interviewed on television.

A few things struck me.

She seems to be in a mindset of almost being brainwashed. Is this a possibility?

She showed no emotion - no regrets for the actions.

She may well be a psychopath perhaps which would explain her actions.

Something is very, very wrong with this woman.

I suspect she is either a real sicko or she has been drugged and brainwashed by the CIA and then used for the pictures.

:tinfoilhat:

[geoscamp]

15. Analyzing Lynndie

I think it could well be that much of the sexual abuse and mutual "gang-banging" was done under the influence. I thought when I
saw the famous "pointing at penis" picture that she looked loaded, but then she looks like that all the time. (Note official army reserve portrait.)

Of course she comes from an abusive home. Emotionally abused and neglected. Her mother made that dumb-ass remark about--well, what about what THEY'RE doing to US! She's out of it, and so is her daughter.

By the way I notice she is saying that those of "higher rank" told her to do what she did. Since she is only a private first class, that could be anyone above her, and that means Graner who is a corporal. I personally think the sex abuse and torture were very well the works of these enlisted, who thought it was fun and games. All the other torture was with the approval of Intelligence and the MP commanders and supervisors were derelict of duty and criminally negligent. Of course, the overriding blame goes to our president and all his cronies who preach a black and white view of the world and have created the US and THEM mentality that makes these enlistees think that anything goes when it comes to "the Enemy."

[HornBuckler]

16. I Don't Think She Needs To Be "Drugged"

Unfortunately, There Are A Lot Of People Out There That Have Little Or No Emotional Response To Despicable Acts. Ever See The Movie Gummo? It's A Real Good Look At How F'ed People Really Are.

[spanone]

9. Red Cross said this was a systemic failure. Of course they will sacrifice

a few grunts and hope it goes away.

[kispoko]

13. i don't think she's a scapegoat

i wouldn't say she's a scapegoat, per se.... she may be in a sense that her superiors are trying to hide behind her and others, but to me she is just as culpable, and *she* is trying to use them as a scapegoat just as much as they are, and they're all guilty.


i won't defend her.... i defended jessica lynch very early, here and elsewhere, because i could see even then what she was about, and what *they* were about, and, now all that's come to pass.... we all know that now, even those who tried using her.

but this other west virginian is another story entirely.... i was talking to neighbors about this yesterday, and i said, ya know, while they probably did instruct her to do certain things, she did 'em because she *wanted* to.... i think her chain of command sort of sniffed out their inferiors, and went for the ones theyknew would willingly go along with this kind of thing.

my neighbor commented that she remembers shoshanna johnson saying something along the lines of disobeying those kinds of orders should they have ever come up, and said she would've rather faced a courtmartial.... and she ain't the only one.


so, they have a good idea who'll go along with their misdoings, and, they're rarely ever wrong

[bloom]

14. It almost seems like

the ones on trial are on trial for being in photographs.

If you weren't photographed... no charges.



I'm sure from a prosecution standpoint, that it is easier to prosecute those where there are pictures that show them committing crimes.

Too bad the people giving the orders probably knew better than to leave such evidence. Or at least evidence that got out.

I think there probably IS evidence that would incriminate upper level people. It just isn't all over the web, and the military is going to see that it stays that way, I imagine.

(Some think Berg was killed because he may have gotten picts that some wanted buried).

[spanone]

17. she needs to be prosecuted but they can't stop there.

if they do that she will be a scapegoat.