I do think Dennis Kucinich could beat GW Bush

[CMT]

People love to say that DK is a sure loser in a race against Bush. I beg to differ. DK would run an old fashioned populist campaign against Bush perhaps more effectively than any other candidate. He is with the exception of Dick Gephardt the candidate who could rally organized labor like no one else. Organized labors muscle would be helpful not only for the $$ but especially for the grassroots organizing and GOTV efforts they can produce.

With DK as the candidate you can bet that NAFTA would be a leading issue in the 2004 campaign as it ought to be. Bush already carries the burden of being the first president since Hoover to not create a single job as president (the economy has lost three million jobs since Junior was selected by the court)but Bush would also have to defend NAFTA which has sucked millions of jobs out of the USA. I think with DK as the candidate blue collar working men and women who have drifted from the democratic party over social issues would come back with a strong economic message which DK would deliver.

With DK as the nominee big business inproprieties would also be a front and center campaign issue and the Bush administration is full of many examples big and small of ENRONS and CEO's getting huge compensations while retirement incomes for ordinary people are being whiped out.

Kucinich would be no patsy in debates either. He would go for Bush's jugular. No sighing from DK he would put it on the line on health care, education, the environment, Iraq, and especially the economy.

A few months ago I too though DK couldn't beat Bush but having seen him during the coarse of this campaign he has impressed me. I say this as a loyal supporter of Howard Dean. Like Dean, DK is often dismissed as "unelectable" and I say the only unelectable candidate as is getting clearer day in and day out is George W. Bush (and maybe Joe Lieberman if he continues to attack the left wing of the party).

p.s.
in my opinion the best potential running mate for DK would be another fiery populist--Tom Harkin--who could really rally the labor and the farm vote.

[JohnKleeb]

1. I agree with you about Harkin

and I think the two get along. Harkin is a great guy too.

[RichM]

2. Yer darn tootin'.

DK has guts. He was born & reared in the working class. He speaks the truth -- whether it's popular or not. If the machinery of the Democratic Party united behind DK, the party would once again stand for something. It would offer tangible benefit to the bottom 95% of the population. This is called "populism." This is what's needed to forge a genuine opposition to the Corporate Oligarchy -- not multi-millionaire Senators who have already kissed Bush's ring, caved in to the Oligarchy, & disgraced themselves by their silence on the most important issues of our time (or worse still, by actively VOTING FOR various of Bush's outrages).

[JohnKleeb]

5. hes a true sucess story

and look at this work ethic. about a 99% voting attendence record to vote on bills!, I wouldnt mind having that for school would you?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. absolutely!!!!

[gully]

4. I'd vote for him but...

I dont' think he could win. Especially since I saw him break into song at a national convention ... *sigh* And, his position on national security seems non-existant??? Perhaps I'm wrong here.

But, he'd have my full support if it comes down to a run against Bush.

[CMT]

7. I don't know about his singing but

he does favor cutting the waste out of the Defense budget. This is not to say he is going to disarm the USA. The idea that the defense budget which does contain a lot of waste which doesn't do a thing for our national defense is a sacred cow is something which should be debated as well.

[diamondsoul]

24. You choose candidates based on singing voice??

And his position on national security is to bring our military force home where it belongs to defend the home shores. He wants to restore the amount of defense we have here at home and stop trying to be the global police force.

[Mairead]

25. His position on national security is that non-imperialists don't have to

worry. Nobody's attacking Sweden, and if we were to help other countries rather than trying to exploit them, nobody would attack us either.

[jiacinto]

6. I disagree

I don't see Kuchinich having what it takes to win in the current political environment.

[bpilgrim]

11. thanks for that well thought out and reasoned analysis

:toast:

peace

[unfrigginreal]

8. Not a chance in hell!

Why do you think that the country is that far to the left ideologically?

[CMT]

9. it is that far to the right ideologically

becuz for too many years the democratic party has lost its identity and on too many occassions have caved in. Harry Truman said it best if you have a choice between a Republican and a Republican speaking Democrat you'll vote for the real thing. That is one reason why the country has drifted to the right--too many GOP lites.

[bpilgrim]

12. the polls seem to indicate they are

but politicos seem to have a seperate agenda.

peace

[twilight]

10. not a loser

If I thought for one minute that DK is a loser, I would not support him 100% like I do!

This is a real man with a real message!

:kick:

[Tinoire]

13. I think so which is why my money's on him

He has a terrific and verifiable track record that can appeal to people of all stripes- to include Republicans (this I know from campaigning for him and talking to Republicans).

The heads of the Green Party are already behind him even if they are still debating whether to sacrifice themselves this year and throw their full support behind him (and him only) or keep working as a separate party.

Labor is behind him (and I am talking workers here) as are many Independent Progressives.

For his even-handed stance on the Israel/Palestine issue and impressive record against this war, he has had no problem getting Muslims, Black Muslims and Arab-Americans behind him (there are at least 4 million votes there).

And then of course, Leftist Pinko Commies like me are already in the bag.

Time will tell on this one but I have no doubts.
----------------------------

Is Kucinich Electable? Can He Beat Bush?

If any Democrat has a history of attracting swing voters and "Reagan Democrats" in winning elections against better-funded Republican opponents, it is Dennis Kucinich. He has repeatedly defeated entrenched incumbents. He beat a Republican incumbent for mayor in 1977, for state senator in 1994 (overcoming the national right-wing tide) and for
Congress in 1996.

His Congressional district includes the suburb of Parma, Ohio, described as "one of the original homes of the Reagan Democrats." An Ohio daily calls it a "conservative Democratic district," which he carried by 74% in 2002. Being a success there may be a better predictor of national success than holding statewide office in a liberal stronghold like Vermont or Massachusetts.

Kucinich is a winner because he builds Wellstone-like grassroots campaigns against bigger-spending opponents. He is a winner because of his blue collar roots and populism, reflected in his battles for heartland voters against unfair, corporate-friendly trade deals.

He is an unabashed progressive who wins because swing voters who don't agree with him on every issue still see him as a fighter for their interests, as someone who will put the interests of workers and middle-class consumers ahead of big-money interests. No Democrat is better positioned in 2004 to attract 'Reagan Democrats' and swing voters with a frontal attack on how Bush policies hurt them and favor the rich.

Republicans use "wedge" issues to pry away traditionally-Democratic white working class voters -- a tactic that has not succeeded against Kucinich. In '96, for example, Republicans used his support of gay rights as a wedge, and he stood firm and triumphed.

On the other side of the spectrum, no other candidate can attract disaffected voters, 3rd party voters and Ralph Nader supporters to the Democratic column like Kucinich. Across the country, Nader 2000 voters and Green Party sympathizers are joining his campaign, as are other 3rd party supporters.

It's been a long while since progressives and the Democratic base have been so motivated, and so angry -- over manipulation and deceit that began in the 2000 election and continued through the Iraq war (now finally catching up with the Bush team). No candidate can better tap into and mobilize the anger of the Democratic base than Kucinich, who has never wavered in his opposition, who has courageously led the way in exposing war manipulation, and who speaks with passion to the big issues that animate Democratic and progressive activists.

Kucinich has been a winner in a swing district in the swing state of Ohio. And Ohio has 20 electoral votes. It is the state that is key to national victory; only two candidates in the 20th century won the presidency without carrying Ohio.

Al Gore lost Ohio in 2000 despite the Herculean efforts of Kucinich, as vividly described by journalist James Ridgeway in an article written days before the election: "Kucinich is a shoo-in, but hauling Gore along will be a daunting task. Shuttling back and forth from Washington, Kucinich has put together an old-fashioned canvassing operation throughout Cleveland and its suburbs that is one of the largest such efforts in the nation. By election day, 400 to 500 people will be on the streets...

"Day after day, members of the laborers, electricians, plumbers, and steelworkers unions crowd into Kucinich's tiny office on Lorain Avenue, piling signs into the backs of cars and pickups before hitting the neighborhoods. The general approach is for volunteers to use Kucinich's name to get a foot in the door, then ask for support for a Democratic judge before uttering the vice president's name."

Kucinich's best efforts couldn't win Ohio for Gore in 2000, but Kucinich can win Ohio himself if he is the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate. And in presidential politics, as Bush-strategist Karl Rove knows well: As Ohio goes, so goes the nation.

http://kucinich.us/electable.htm

[CMT]

14. Not DK's fault that Gore lost Ohio

despite DK's best efforts as described above. Gore could have won Ohio had he not conceded the state three weeks before the election spending no more $$ there. He lost by only four-points. The only big Industrial state to go to Bush.

[fabius]

15. Kucinich could beat Bush

But it remains to be seen if he can win the Democratic nomination. I'd love to see it!

I'm a Dean supported right now but mainly because it seems Dean's campaign has legs, momentum, grassroots organization and all the good things that we need right now. Nobody else has it.

I'd like to see Dennis as Secretary of Labor in a Dean administration.

[CMT]

16. I agree and I'm a Dean supporter too

but tired of people saying that someone from the left like DK can't win. I think he and Dean could by really giving the country an alternative.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. When you hear "Kucinich is unelectable," remember that

you're hearing a GOP talking point. Who cares what the Republicans think?

VOTE PROGRESSIVE VOTE FOR DENNIS KUCINICH 2004

[birdman]

26. Does that mean that the Pubbies are terrified of Kucinich ?

C'mon they'd be ecstatic if he ever got nominated. "Republican
talking points" is the weakest of arguments. When people mention
Al Gores foibles in 2000 (his strange debate perfomances, the tenant in the dump, the embarrassing Naomi Wolf fiasco) they are
always accused of using "Republican talking points" but pols are
always going to use your vulnerabilities against you. If you give
the other side ammunition they're going to use it. They can't be expected not to.

Kucinich certainly is unelectable for a number of reasons:

1) He has very low name recognition and months of campaigning don't seem to have improved it. He still has a 2% rating on the preference polls among Dems let along the Pubbies and independents he would need to win.

2) Proposals like the Department of Peace and the attempt to ban space based mind control weapons would make him enormous fodder
for both Republicans and late night comedians.

3) His biggest issues like NAFTA are ones that few people care about
and would identify him with people like the Seattle protestors of a few years back and that would be deadly.

4) I'm sorry, appearance does matter. In a perfect world it wouldn't but the fact he looks like a little kid would make him
easy to dismiss. His performance in the AFL-CIO debate was, well, bizarre. Little guys screaming in a near out-of control fashion
are not going to cut it with the public.

5) He faced a recall as mayor of Cleveland and the city went bankrupt. No matter what the details of those events they would
used with enormous impact against him.

[Perky]

18. DK is the new MD

Mike Dukakis that is He would win one state as wel.

[found object]

19. ...that is, one state at a time.

like CA, NY, WA, OR, MN...

[CMT]

23. well to be fair to Mike Dukakis

he won ten states plus DC and 46% of the vote which is a better percentage than Clinton got in 1992 (43%) and better showing in the popular and electoral vote than either Carter (80) or Mondale (84) and only 3-points lower than the percentage received by Clinton in 1996 and Gore in 2000.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Dukakis Won Ten States

including some big industrial states and almost won California.

In fact, the 1988 map included important clues of how the Dems' could recapture the White House in 92.


DK is so far to the left that he makes Mike Dukakis look like Atilla the Hun.

[w4rma]

20. I love Kucinich, but he doesn't have a shot at all of winning in 2004

He is a horrible fundraiser.

He has very little name recognition.

The Dean campaign has the energy and is the populist campaign and, in the long term, is better for the Democratic Party because his campaign is rebuilding the Democratic machine.

Also, if you think, as I do, that Sen. Lieberman and the unelected DLC has gone insane over a *moderate* Dean (who, btw, is able to appeal to all Democrats and even Perot and McCain supporters and Greens) then that is nothing compared to what they would do if they thought Kucinich might win the nomination.

[CMT]

22. Hey I think Dean can do it too

and I'm a Dean supporter but I think you may be right--the difficulty would be DK's getting nominated at this point--but it is still early.

[Dover]

21. Yes, he probably could win. Of course it would help tremendously if he

had the support of his own party,
had fair media coverage and air time
and an open forum for real debate and discussion.

In short (no pun intended), if he was seen and heard with enough regularity by the public and given the chance to get past the sound bite and preconceptions of who he is, then YES I think people would gravitate toward him in droves.

[Nederland]

28. DK cannot win...

...the Democratic Primary, let alone the national election.

Show me a poll that says otherwise. You DK fans that have delusions about him winning a national election are clearly closeted liberals that have no interaction with real people. I mean, hello! More than half this country approves of George W. Bush as President--but here at DU I'm betting that right after this post someone will point out that Bush isn't the President. So many people here at DU are so completely out of touch its scary. Do you DK fans know anyone that likes Bush? Do you have any friends that are Republicans? The real world is out there folks, and I'm sensing that you don't have a clue what its really like. Hint: its a world where DK can't win.

[birdman]

30. Of course

there are some here who exist in a parallel universe
where the public is up in arms about NAFTA, and the 2000
Florida election and voting machine security. In fact none
of those things is even on the publics radar screen. And
sadly neither is Kucinich. Wishing won't make him a viable
candidate.

[LWolf]

29. I agree.

I've never doubted that he could beat bush; it's getting the support of his own party members to get him into the general election! If all the people who say, "I like Kucinich on the issues, but I don't think he can beat *, so I'm voting for _____________" actually cast their vote for him, he'll take the primary, too.

[Desertrose]

31. Gotta admit...I liked DK with Harkin too

but don't know that much about him....

DK is gonna surprise everyone...

BTW saw Seabiscuit over the weekend...and smaller darkhorses CAN win....

Peace
DR

[donsu]

32. Yes to Dennis K.

DK knows how to work and get a job done without blather or posturing

No to Lieb. - not to be trusted

No to Kerry - S&B not to be trusted

No to Dean - Rove likes him

Yes to Braun and Sharpton - they are not afraid to tell it like it is.
and in Sharpton's case, go to jail for a cause (Viagues sp?). And
they are hard workers.

[TahitiNut]

33. Not if the Democratic Party takes a dive.

If there's anything that, to me, suggests corporatist influence in the Democratic Party, it's the unremitting fusillade of "not electable" and other rhetoric of marginalization that gets such heavy play in the media.

IMHO, the only thing that can defeat a Democratic nominee is the Democratic party "establishment" -- heavily laden with "pragmatists" -- and voters that are excessively influenced by such "leadership".

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. John McCain couldn't do it.

What are you kidding me?

[brokensymmetry]

35. So are you saying

that a highly intelligent, well-read, caring, committed candidate who really cares about the working men and women of America could get elected?

Yes? I do to! Let's try giving America a real choice, and a real chance to elect a progressive President! Let's nominate Dennis Kucinich!