FTN CBS: SEYMOUR HERSCH (The New Yorker) on right now .9:30 CT

[LittleApple81]

[LittleApple81]

1. He is saying we wer torturing potential friends. n/t

[rocktivity]

He also points out that coercion does not bring good results

because terrifed people tell you what they think you want to hear.

I think that bad intelligence has been the linchpin to a lot of the blunders that have been going on.

:headbang:
rocknation

[PDittie]

2. Those cracking sounds

are the ice breaking under the administration's collective feet.

They're going to have another bad week.

[LittleApple81]

3. Don't we avoid torture so our own guys don't get tortured?

Of course, says Sy. Terrified people tell you what you want to hear.

[LittleApple81]

4. Schieffer: reading the reply from DoD saying Sy lied.

Sy says: no denial of secret program.

[LittleApple81]

5. Sy: the ball is in the part of the Senate:

Are they going to get to the bottom of this?

[LittleApple81]

8. Now Levin, because Sy said Congress is responsible.

Levin going through the levels from the bottom.
(But I remember I read somewhere that the Democrats agreed not to publish the new pictures and somebody said that Warner and Levin are like a married couple).
The top secretaries in the cabinet knew about the abuse from Red Cross.
If Sy is correct, then it impliates Rumsfeld in the approval of the secret program that brings it under POLICY.
A full blown investigation was required EVEN BEFORE SY's article.

[doni_georgia]

6. yeah, duh, like they are going to come out and admit to this!

There's a secret presidential finding behind this folks. before all is said and done, this will be traceable all the way to Bush.

[doni_georgia]

9. Check out this story in the Falls Church News Press

http://www.fcnp.com/410/whitehouse.htm

[Alerter_]

7. the GOP has set us back 50 years

our reputation is destroyed and utterly gone to the majority of the world. This will take a generation to recover from.

[0007]

21. Or longer!

[Must_B_Free]

34. Not Necessarily

Maybe this will collapse our entire government if Congress is responsible.

Then we can clean house examine all the failures and rebuild a functional system with checkes and balances appropriate to this technological and cultural state of evolution.

[LittleApple81]

10. Now graham: (I wish he had another voice timbre...)

Ask his colleagues: slow down a bit and make sure we get it right. We need well ordered and well disciplined army... Uh???
Schieffer: Military JAGS concerned. You being JAG. Isn't this extraordinary, were they afraid of consequences if they went to the Pentagon.
Graham does not know about JAGs complaints.

[LittleApple81]

11. Graham: NOT HAZING, not JUST ROGUE SOLDIERS.

There were MPs at the interrogation. Not willing to indicte everybody until he has more evidence.

[LittleApple81]

12. Graham: Shown in Photos not regulated but it WAS PLANNED!

Sanchez wrote plans for interrogation.
Serious violations and violence.

[Alerter_]

35. Graham does not know about JAGs complaints?

Someone should tell him.

[playahata1]

13. I missed Hersch -- just tuned in to FTN

Who is the guy that is speaking on the torture situation now?

Here comes Carl Levin.

[playahata1]

15. I gotcha! It;s LINDSEY GRAHAM.

my bad.

[LittleApple81]

14. Levin: Lawyers signed off on the "rules of engagement"

which shouldn't be. rules of engagement are for combat not for interrogation of prisoners.
Citizens of this great nation and the military itself paying the price.

[LittleApple81]

16. Sy: Rice gave authorization to Rumsfeld. He does not know

if Bush knew.

[LittleApple81]

17. Sy: IF YOU GIVE PROTECTION, SENIOR MILITARY PERSONNEL

WILL TELL YOU STUFF THAT WILL KNOCK YOUR SOCKS OFF!!! WOW!

[Junkdrawer]

19. Wow, indeed....And an implied threat....

:wow:

Do in committee or I'll do it for you in The New Yorker. :evilgrin:

[LizW]

25. Damn, this is historic

Sy Hersh is telling the Congress that HE KNOWS. He's giving them a chance to do the right thing, but if they don't do it, he will.

Folks, it's time to sit your teenagers down in front of the television. It's time to make them pay attention. This is history being made.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. Hersh needs to hang in public places these days. God bless him. EOM

[LittleApple81]

31. I do think he has more material... he just waits for reaction to

make sure he publishes what is necessary at a given point to give them a "nudge" in the right direction.

[Junkdrawer]

32. "If you build it, they will come" n/t

[SpiralHawk]

30. Rice ! Ooooooooo

It's time for you to resign, Condi. We know you and your cronies have no honor, but the citizens of the US want their honor back. Resign now, and that that appointed Chimp and his Wyoming bagman with you.

[TacticalPeek]

22. "Citizens of this great nation and the military itself paying the price."

Inconveniently, Carl's remark overlooks the Iraqis, and many others.

[LittleApple81]

18. Graham pretending he did not hear Sy's suggestion to give

immunity and says something like we should get to the bottom of this without so much partisanship.
But I actually think he DOES WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS.

[Junkdrawer]

20. Watergate was the same -- the Republicans were always one step out of sync

Graham is NOW saying the kind of things Levin was saying before the last Sy article.

[TacticalPeek]

27. Graham's got the guilts over impeaching the Big Dog.

So Lindsay, are you coming to better understand what high crimes are?

If Rice blessed Rummy, can there be any doubt that her hus . . boss, her husboss had his thumb up? Lindsay? You don't even want to ask the question, much less handle the truth.

[0007]

24. Graham came on strong at the start and has since walked backward

in slow motion. I'm sure he was rebuked by junior after his statements at the first hearing or by his fellow right wingers.

[LittleApple81]

23. Schieffer doing a scathing review of the Military Administration(Pentagon)

pre- and during-war behavior. Loved it.

[Junkdrawer]

33. Here's the transcript....

SCHIEFFER: When I saw those pictures in the Iraq prison, I kept asking myself what could
have been going through the guards' minds? But the more I think about it, the more I
wonder, what was going through the minds of the people who sent them there? The way
these prisons were being run violated every tenet of military doctrine: no chain of command,
no clear understanding of who was in charge, what the rules were or even what the mission
was. That is a recipe for disaster. Is it one more bad result from sending a force to Iraq that
was too small to maintain order once it got there? Whatever it was, no professional military
officer should have signed off on it. Did the military give bad advice on this or go along with
a bad plan because officers feared retribution?

If Seymour Hersh's reporting is correct it was the Pentagon's top civilian leaders who came
up with the controversial and more aggressive interrogation procedures, a plan designed to
camouflage just who was in charge. That could explain a lot. Not many of the Pentagon's
military people even knew about this, but those who did should have known better. Did they
question it? Did anyone threaten to quit? We know that a group of ranking military officers
were so concerned they went to a civilian bar association and the lawyers there and urged
them to intervene. Why take that action? Were they afraid to speak out to their superiors in
the civilian ranks? What kind of leadership creates that kind of atmosphere? That is the
larger question and we are nowhere close to having an answer.

That's it for us. We'll see you right here next week on FACE THE NATION.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_051604.pdf

[Junkdrawer]

26. Ever notice that no one attacks Sy Hersh....

I guess it would be like "Dr. Einstein, your math is appalling". :shrug:

[LittleApple81]

29. When Schieffer read the reply from La Ritta (sp?) from DoD he

said: do you notice they don't deny the existence of a secret program?
Sy is a treasure.

[joanski01]

36. Thanks for your reporting,

LittleApple. I watched Meet the Press and did not see FTN. This was extremely interesting.

[DU GrovelBot]

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