The "lemon" speaketh from Mount Lemon

[SoCalDem]

The people applauded wildly when * said the forest need THINNING.. Those trees have been growin' fer decades"..We gotta treasure and preserve.. gotta have good sound forest poilicy..

Gotta "thin em".. good sound forest management policy all across Murka..

That's why he outlined Healthy Forests plan..

Well meaning put policy in place.. made the health of the forest at risk..

He's gonna cut thru beaurocratic red tape so they can slice through it & get thinning projects..


Quickly... must "thin" forests...


Trees bad...Lawsuits to stop thinnning...bad..

Must expedite... chop those trees NOW..


Must maintain "a healthy forests".... :eyes:

[rogerashton]

1. Y'know,

in forestry there is such a thing as "sustainable harvesting." It is a sound policy for second-growth forests (such as the odd few acres I own with my sister) and pays nearly as well as clear-cutting -- maybe better in the really long run.

The problem, of course, is that *BUSH LIES and if he says "thin" you can be pretty sure he means "clearcut and open old-growth forests."

It might be worth turning it around on him. We are for a no-clearcut rule -- that's what thinning means, isn't it? Or did you make another verbal mistake when you said thin, Mr. Bush*?

[efhmc]

2. Burning was nature's way of thinning. Baby bush 's way will be

unnatural and geared to big business. He is such an idiot!!!!!

[SoCalDem]

4. and... permanent developments were NOT built inside the forests

the "natural" burns were manageable, before humans moved their tract homes further and further INTO the forested areas..

I do a slow burn every year when I see the same people ionterviewed on tv...as their home burns in the background..

"...yup... we LUV it up here.. yeah.. we been burned out 4 times, but we're gonna re-build.."...

Nevermind that the fire crews are risking their lives and spending a whole bunch of money trying to put these fires out every year..

and what about insurance costs?? Well OURS go up because of repeat collectors like these folks..

My husband & I always joke.. yep you bet the love it up there.. every few years or so, they get a whole new house.. what's not to love :)


and even if they do NOT have insurance, and must bear the cost by themselves, they should not be ALLOWED to.. Why should they "use up" fire supression services in such an irresponsible way..

[FlaGranny]

7. You might say something similar

about people who build in flood plains and on beachfronts.

[SoCalDem]

8. and I DO say exactly that

:evilgrin:

[Brian Sweat]

11. Sustainable harvets of old growth make sense too

or at least more sense (much more sense) than clear cutting old growth.

Old growth timber is treasured in wood working for serveral reason.

1. The trunks of the old growth trees are generally much bigger around than second growth trees. You can cut these bigger trees into dimensions that are just not possible with scrawny farmed trees.

2. Old growth trees take a long time to grow, because the trees are soo close together. As a result, the rings of the tree are much tighter. Projects made from old growth lumber are much more stable than project made from farmed trees. This is why so much furniture today is made from particle board and plywood. If you try to make furniture from farmed trees, the board will cup and the funiture will warp.

Sustainable harvesting means a permanent source of quality wood and the habitat is not completely destroyed. Unnatural thinning is counter productive, because this will allow the trees to grow too fast. Sustainable harvesting means fewer board feet per year, but the value of the wood will be so much higher that it should make up for the smaller yield.

[OrdinaryTa]

3. Trees Cause Air Pollution

Trees cause air pollution. Besides, if you've seen one tree, you've seen them all.

-- Attributed to then-President Ronald Reagan.

[glarius]

6. Reagan visited Ottawa,Canada early in his presidency and was confronted

on Parliament Hill by environmental groups holding up large signs protesting Acid rain....He's still remembered up here for saying something to the effect that "trees cause acid rain!"...LOL

[glarius]

5. I think Chimpy's message is ""well meaning as he may have been" Bill

Clinton did it all wrong...Did you notice his referral to the wrong policies of the previous administration?....Georgie of course has got it all figured out...The man is a J-O-K-E!!!!

[Clete]

9. I used to live in the woods.

I lived around the very people who cut down the trees and scratched a living from them. A favorite T-shirt was one that had a Campbells Soup can and said, "Cream of Spotted Owl Soup". As an environmentalist I was as welcome as the plague.

I spent many an evening around a campfire talking to the forest people, most of them conservative, religious and descended from the pioneer stock that settled those woods. All of them, however, would extend a helping hand if you needed it no matter how dire their circumstances. All of them were dead honest. One didn't need a contract for a transaction. If they gave you their word, you could be sure they would honor it. They didn't get rich from the rape of our forests, but barely made a living.

They were aware like most good woodsmen that clear cutting was not the best way to harvest trees. They knew it eroded the earth and polluted the streams and lakes, that it silted up the salmon runs. Yet, they didn't know how else to make a living so they were easy pickings to be expoited by Republicans. I once asked them what they would do when there were no more trees or deer? They all said they hoped they would be gone by then. It seems selfish I know, but it was actually desparation talking.

If I ever had a reason to hate Bush and all Republicans before, I really do today even more so.

[liberalnurse]

10. When I say him (*shrub) on TV....

All I could think of was, Ike Clanton from the movie, Tombstone.

No shit....what do you think....Was it Ike??

[depakid]

12. Oh, he means clearcutting alright

without recourse to environmental laws.

The trouble with many public lands is that they were never properly thinned after being clearcut the first time. Why should they be? That would have cost money, and no private company is going to spend money on a commons without being forced to. Hell, a lot times, of they wouldn't even replant, they'd just leave a few seed trees.

The cost of thinning needs to be figured into the price of any timber sale involving a clearcut- as should the cost of roadbuilding and any necessary mitigation thereafter. Unfortunately, that's usually not the case, because the Forest Service is in the corporate welfare business.

They're also in the fire suppression business, but that's another, more complicated matter.

[Clete]

13. The problem

is that all the spindely brush surrounds population areas, and these are the trees that need to be cleared. The lumber companies don't want these trees but the big ones in old growth forests. So we will lose even more of our forest and our towns will still be in danger of fires wiping them out.

GET RID OF BUSH AND HIS COMPANY NOW. I SAY IMPEACHMENT SHOULD BEGIN IMMEDIATELY. WE NOW HAVE ENOUGH IRAQ EVIDENCE LIES TO DO THIS.

One of the mistakes the Germans and western nations made with Hitler is that they didn't get rid of him before he had completely consolidated his power. When they did finally fight back, they couldn't win because he was so in control by then that he was able to murder anyone at will who opposed him.

[goobergunch]

14. I was affected by the Aspen Fire and I don't support this plan

As a member of the 2003 Advanced Teen Astronomy Camp, I was supposed to do some observing and data collection at the Steward Observatory on Mt. Lemmon. Due to the fire, this proved impossible...we were even fearing for the safety of the telescopes themselves, as the fire at one point was only a few yards therefrom. (Happily, they survived.)

However, the answer to these problems is not chopping trees down. The area exists as a "sky island" ecosystem, with plants and animals evolving that are unique to that area. Indeed, a nearby "sky island" (Mt. Graham) has an endangered squirrel that is protected under law...I bet * won't be cutting down trees there! The Mt. Lemmon observatory facilities are also shared by bird-watchers...the birds will have nowhere to go if the trees are chopped down.

As someone who was greatly affected by the Aspen Fire, I have this message for *: Take your chainsaw and throw it away...because you can't have a healthy forest if the trees are chopped down.

[Gogi]

15. Building in floodplain.

The only people around here who are allowed to build in the flood plain are wealthy people. I live on the edge of the Missouri River floodplain according to the maps. I am considering applying for a Missouri Housing Development Corporation loan. Under their rules if even an inch of your property is in the 100 year flood plain you will not get a loan. In the city of Hazelwood they are building a mega mall in the floodplain and don't even get me started on Chesterfield bottoms!