Catholics In Congress Denounce Church's Anti-Gay Stand

[freetobegay]

(Washington) 48 Roman Catholic members of Congress are condemning threats by some bishops to refuse communion to politicians who do not follow the Church's doctrine on gay marriage and abortion.

In a letter to Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington, obtained by the Washington Post, the Congressmen, all Democrats, warn that threats are likely to revive anti-Catholic bigotry and "severely harm the church."

"For many years Catholics were denied public office by voters who feared that they would take direction from the pope," the Congressmen wrote. "While that type of paranoid anti-Catholicism seems to be a thing of the past, attempts by church leaders today to influence votes by the threat of withholding a sacrament will revive latent anti-Catholic prejudice, which so many of us have worked so hard to overcome."

Some bishops have already told Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry that he will not be allowed to take communion in their churches.

http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/05/052004rcCongress.htm

[LARED]

1. I don't understand these folks

Catholic church doctrine clearly is anti-gay and anti-abortion.

Why do these Congressmen believe they should be able to take communion if they clearly do not hold to these views?

Or are they really more concerned that Catholic voters will not support them.

[freetobegay]

2. Actually it's pretty simple

DON'T MIX POLITICS & RELIGION!

[kiahzero]

3. Because, maybe just maybe, they respect the First Amendment?

Just because "the Catholic Church says so" is no reason to support or not support public policy.

The day that Catholic politicians are required to vote the way the Church tells them is the day that they are no longer capable of serving in the United States Government - they would be unable, in good faith, to take an oath swearing to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

No theocracy allowed.

[LARED]

7. The first amendment has nothing to do with this

The Catholic church hold certain doctrines that it expects its members to abide by. If a congresscritter does not agree with the church, then he/she should leave the church.

BTW, the first amendment extends to church organization as well secular organizations. If any church says something about public policy it has the right to do so. It is an individual choice whether to support or not support public policy based on this.

[kiahzero]

9. Um, it has everything to do with this

May I remind you of a little thing called the Establishment Clause?

What you are suggesting is that all Catholic politicians become arms of the Catholic Church. That is something that is CLEARLY forbidden, under even the most loose interpretation of the Establishment Clause.

[LARED]

11. I disagree

The Establishment Clause states

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

If a Catholic, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, (name your religion), congresscritter acts in accordance with their church doctrine in performing their duties the Establishment clause says nothing about it. In fact the establishment Clause protects said congresscritter from anyone stopping them from doing this by law. Now the voters are a different matter.

What you are suggesting is that all Catholic politicians become arms of the Catholic Church.

Not at all. I am suggesting if a Catholic politician disagrees with church doctrine then they should not be a Catholic. They can't expect to take a public position clearly outside of church teachings and then be upset when the Church denies them communion.

[kiahzero]

13. There's a difference

Right now, a Catholic politician like Kerry is free to think for himself. He can think, "While I may be against same-sex marriage, my personal beliefs aren't exactly a compelling governmental interest" and end up supporting same-sex marriage.

That is significantly different from what you are proposing.

You are proposing that members of the Catholic faith be told by the Church how they should vote, and that they should do so if they wish to remain Catholic. I fail to see how any intellectually honest person could fail to see that as violating the Establishment Clause.

The Catholic Church has no business in government. Anyone who suggests that the Catholic Church, or any other church, for that matter, should have control over our representatives is no different from the kind of fundamentalists that rule most of the Middle East.

[Lisa0825]

12. You hit the nail on the head!!!

" The day that Catholic politicians are required to vote the way the Church tells them is the day that they are no longer capable of serving in the United States Government - they would be unable, in good faith, to take an oath swearing to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States."

VERY WELL PUT!!!!

(ex-Catholic here)

[truthspeaker]

4. here's what I don't understand

Why does any Catholic who disagrees with the pope on gay rights or abortion remain a Catholic? Why would anyone willingly remain part of an authoritarian organization whose leaders have made it clear they are not welcome?

[freetobegay]

5. Sometimes people just forget what religion is about, GOD!

[w4rma]

6. There is more to the Catholic church than just it's current leadership(nt)

[Bridget Burke]

8. Yes. The Church is a very old institution. It's changed before....

And it can change again.

As a former Catholic, I can understand why Catholics treasure their religion, yet want changes. Especially in response to certain grandstanding bishops.

[Az]

10. Religion is not so easily dismissed

There are more ties into a person concerning their religion than just the doctrine. There are an entire armada of social pressures that keep people tied into their religion.

There is a phenomena within America that is troubling to the Vatican. It is not uncommon for an American Catholic to claim that the pope has his opinion and they have theirs. This of course goes against the very nature of a dogmatic authoratative struture. But it has had little choice in how to deal with the matter.

Orthodox religions are not doing so well in this day and age. The pope even had to relent on the churches rejection of evolution in the face of scientific progress. Social reform and understanding has lead us to realise that birth control is perhaps the single best tool for dealing with poverty. The changes in society strike like a hammer agaist the rigid structure of the church.

They have allowed much. But now after the molestation crisis it seems they are trying to crack the whip. The vatican has been targetting the US since the 1960s concerning Roe V Wade. They are simply using the rise of fundimentalism to bolster their hold on the politicians in this country.

[kiahzero]

14. It'd be one thing if they were going against their faith

It's another thing entirely when they recognize that not everyone has the same faith, and deciding to pass laws based on other inspiration, rather than religion.

Kerry being pro-choice and supporting, to a limited extend, same-sex marriage are not violations of Catholic doctrine. He's not personally entering into a same-sex marriage, nor is he or Teresa having an abortion.

Unfortunately, the evangelical nature of Christianity tends to preclude realizing that others have equally valid belief systems.