Would you support a "black-owned" business that advertised itself as such?

[theboss]

One question deserves another.

[bryant69]

1. I suspect this will be an interesting

And possibly abbreviated discussion.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. If that's their main selling point, no.

I don't want to do business with someone who has such a low self-esteem issue that they think they only way they can generate business is by playing on sympathies. I want to do business with someone who touts themselves as being capable and pre-eminent in their field. And if they happen to be minority owned too, that might be enough to tip the scales in their favor in my book.

[tom_paine]

5. Well said, sirjwtheblack

Well said, and NOT Policitcally Correct.

I like it!

:toast:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. I call em as I see em

I don't believe in political correctness in every day discussions (which I consider posting on forums to be). If we can't talk frankly amongst ourselves, who are we kidding?

Professional settings are entirely different, and proper respect needs to be paid where it is due.

[tom_paine]

49. I am in complete agreement

Other than our "tattered flag" issue, I think we share a lot of views.

This is just a guess, though.

Do you consider yourself to be a moderate? I wonder what you would think of this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1348889#1356815

(you can read all the posts, if you wish, there are quite a few of them, but I am only concerned with hearing your thoughts on my "thesis" regarding the True Moderate and whether you agree or not)

And, of course, whether or not you consider yourself to be a True Moderate (you don't strike me as the Cautious Moderate type, but I've been wrong before and undoubtedly will be so again).

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

87. I consider myself a liberal.

Personally, I seek primarily to defend what is written in our Constitution. I believe in each and every one of the Bill of Rights, and will fight to preserve them to the end (I am a card carrying ACLU member). It puts me on the liberal side of the fence most of the time. I don't believe that an "every man for himself" system is enough to uphold the Bill of Rights, and thus, I've believed in things like universal health care and welfare (though welfare does need reform). This sometimes puts me on the conservative side of the fence too though, with issues like gun control. I take each and every issue separately and I don't think I'll ever find a candidate I'll fully agree with.

So yeah, I guess by your definition I would be called a true moderate. However, I still identify myself as a liberal, because that is the side of the fence I find myself on more often than not. Yours was a very good post, and I like your definition of a "true moderate". I just sort of dislike the word "moderate" because of its current connotation. I think of someone with wishy-washy ideas and politicians catering their beliefs to the lowest common denominator, and that is NOT what I stand for at all. I hear where you're coming from though.

And in regards to the tattered flag issue, I see your point completely and I respect that. I don't think we differ on that issue at all. If your message is primarily for yourself, then you need not care what anyone else thinks.

[rucky]

7. Jeez, that's harsh for a hypothetical

what if - all other things being equal - they happen to be proud to be a black-owned business. It's tough enough for anyone to establish a business, but there are greater odds against you if you're black (if you don't believe me, google "credit discrimination").

That is an accomplishment worth crowing about, IMO.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

25. It's not a hypothetical

I've come across numerous law firms in my dealings where literally the only fact about themselves that they market is the fact that they are minority owned and operated. That's nice and all, but when I've got a legal issue, it needs to be handled properly or it's going to cost me tens of thousands of dollars potentially. And if the only good thing you can say about yourself is that you're minority owned and operated, sorry, but you're not getting my business. That doesn't instill confidence in me when other firms are telling their success stories instead. Do I want the guy that closed a multimillion dollar deal or the guy who thinks he should get my business simply because his firm is minority owned and operated? That's a no-brainer for me - I want the proven commodity. If that's harsh, c'est la vie. This is a business and needs to be run as such.

Now, you said "if all things are equal". I addressed that and said I would likely choose the minority business if the credentials are comparable. But again, it has to do with how the business markets itself. I can't know if things are comparable if the only thing the business is telling me is that it's run by minorities. That doesn't tell me a damn thing.

on edit: I'm well aware of the credit discrimination difficulties and am very sympathetic. But rather than telling me only that you're minority owned and operated, tell me the successes that you've had in order to clear that hurdle. There HAS to be some successes, and if there aren't, well, why would I want to hire you anyway, minority or not?

on second edit: For the record, when I say "costs me tens of thousands", I mean my company and not me personally. I don't make shit myself.

[rucky]

31. I just found it interesting that the original post was open-ended

and you chose to assume negative aspects that weren't there while my mind went an entirely different direction. Now I understand that was based on your personal (bad) experience, but I'm still confused as to how you read so much into it that just isn't there.

would this ad be better?

"Barnes & Barnes: The really, really good minority-owned lawfirm"

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

37. LOL, no.

Typically, law firms don't advertise like that anyway.

I used my experience as an example, but the example I used is applicable generally. I don't do business with people just to be a nice guy. If a minority owned business can get at least within the ballpark of comparable quality and price, I'll definitely choose them first, but it's a tertiary factor for me. I have a primary responsibility to my employer that needs to be fulfilled first and foremost, and if the only thing I can learn about someone's company is that they are minority owned, that's not enough information to earn my business.

on edit: The original question is too open ended. I can't give a general "yes" or "no" answer to it, because neither answer will be good in all cases. Like I said above, it's a tertiary factor for me that comes into play if the primary and secondary criteria are met.

[PotatoBoy]

3. No I wouldn't

I refuse to support anything that's racist. I'm so extreme, I think even college funds that target blacks & Latinos are racist. Why can't they just be "college fund for kids who need help," and it can apply to ANYONE. Because guess what, not all blacks/Latinos need help, it IS possible that they can come from very affluent families. Now that I think of it, those college funds are kind of an insult in a way.. "here, you need our help."

I used to work as a contractor for Lucent Technologies. My boss called me one day and said Lucent needed a black UNIX programmer, and asked if I knew any. I was completely disgusted at the question.

[Terran]

11. How in the hell

is self-advertising as "Black-Owned" racist? And what does that have to do with your anti-affirmative action screed?

In case you weren't watching, "they" do have lots of "college funds for kids who need help". Do I detect some resentment? Something worse than resentment?

[redqueen]

14. It's a natural reaction

There is a civil rights bill that says you can't discriminate based on race... well... except for some people...

:shrug:

[Terran]

28. I don't follow you at all.

A "natural" reaction? For whom?

[redqueen]

32. For anyone that expects fairness? n/t

[Terran]

51. OK, wait...

"For anyone that expects fairness," it's a "natural reaction" be against any form of favoring one ethnic group over another? If that's what you mean, then I strongly disagree. I'm all for fairness, very much so. That's *why* I support affirmative action.

As for these other things, like seeing a business that identifies itself as Black-owned, that doesn't really enter into it for me. I would assume such a business is trying to appeal to a customer base based on that fact; that I *do* find natural. 'Buy from me, not from Wal Mart. Support businesses owned by people in your group.' Nothing unusual about that.

[redqueen]

53. I understand what you're saying re: marketing

However, it's critically important that we on the left recognize the backlash that comes from not goipng out of our way to make fairness a defining issue.

As I've said in another post, making college admission easier for certain races by augmenting their test scores smacks of discrimination against whites. *I understand the need for diversity*, but many don't get to that point... they see the bias, and react emotionally, which I referred to as 'a natural reaction'.

I think we need to start thinking of ways to make the student body at colleges more *economically* diverse as well as racially diverse.

[noiretextatique]

43. where is the "discrimination" in saying a business is owned by blacks?

:wtf: who is being discriminated against?

[redqueen]

47. I was responding to the reference to special help for certain races

"I think even college funds that target blacks & Latinos are racist. Why can't they just be "college fund for kids who need help," and it can apply to ANYONE."

I hear this so often... and it really does have merit. Middle class minorities do just as well as white students. I wonder if anyone's bothered to compare middle class minorities' grades to those of whites in poverty.

[noiretextatique]

50. oh...sorry...but what merit is there in sour grapes?

the united negro college fund is a non-profit organization started to raise fund for black students. i imagine that's the same for any other non-profit organization...it has mission and a purpose, like the red cross. i would ask this poster to start a fund and call it whatever he chooses to call it. sheesh!

[redqueen]

56. I say that same thing to people all the time!

I am coming into this discussion with a background of having debates about affirmative action with rightwingers in Texas.

You've just told me exactly what I tell them. If you think there should be a white student subsidy - form it! Get the debate started! But they're cowed. They assert they'll be shut down and be labeled racists, neo-nazis, etc.

Those that do recognize the need to balance the field still bristle at not having those doors opened for poor white students. Take into consideration that at some colleges, the best way they have so far seen fit to augment their racial mix is by tacking on 10 points to someone's entrace exam score based solely on their race. Stupid stupid stupid... there is nothing I can say to that in these discussions... nothing.

We really do need to have that much needed national discussion about race. :)

[noiretextatique]

67. indeed...well, i would tell them

to follow the example of the civil rights movement, as the maori people in new zealand did :thumbsup:

[redqueen]

68. I'll have to look into that

Thanks! I can use whatever help I can get down here, honest! The only thing keeping lots of folks from voting for a Dem is the belief that Democrats only cater to gays, minorities, and 'abortionists'.

:(

[PotatoBoy]

18. Racist...

Maybe racist isn't the right term. I just don't like it when people point things out like "oh look, the first Asian man to receive an Oscar." And would it bother me if they announced those things about whites too? Yes it would, they just don't do it though.

So am I bothered by "Hey, we sell mattresses... oh and hey..we're black!" Who gives a f_?? I certainly don't care what race someone is when I go shopping. I care about the customer service and the quality of the products, that's it.

Maybe I'm just too idealist, and that's the problem. I would rather not have any race acknowledge over another. And the more of a melting pot we are, the better.

[Terran]

27. I really have to wonder

why it would bother you *so much* to hear something like "The first Asian man to win an Oscar..." What is the big deal, after all? It's harmless. It seems to me your attitude is the same as most conservatives who, on the one hand reject affirmative action automatically as "discriminatory" and yet claim they want a "level playing field" and a "color blind society". It's seems very noble to want those things, but such sentiments ignore the very blunt fact that we *don't* have such a society, and we never will until some major equalization has occured between the various groups in our society. Some minorities continue to face forms of discrimination that prevent them from fully partaking of the economic benefits of our society. In an idealized wonderland, where we all simply ceased to notice skin color and culture and linguistic differences, your solution would work. But it will never work in the real world, not in any forseeable future.

[PotatoBoy]

38. You're right

Maybe I need to open my eyes and stop wishing racism didn't exist. How do countries do it? How do other regions (like the UK) seem to have it so under control compared to the US? Not to say that racism doesn't exist in the UK.. I'm not sure about this, but it seems their level of racism is a LOT lower than ours. How did they get there, and how do we get there?

If supporting minority-owned businesses and minority causes will do the trick, then I'm all for it.

[Terran]

45. No, don't stop wishing

We all wish racism didn't exist. But I think there are more constructive approaches to making it better than what you described earlier.

How do other countries have less racism that the US? Well, I think racism is deeply ingrained in humans--or, I should say that xenophobia (a fear of strangers/people unlike the self) is deeply ingrained, probably from pre-human times. But racism is mostly a function of history and national character, I think. Britain is a very different place from the US; they do have a history of slavery also and of enforcing servitude on dark-skinned peoples, but not in the same ways that the US did (and does). Britain is certainly a racist society also, but I agree it is probably much less so than the worst the US displays. I think in someway the Brits are simply more practical about getting along, perhaps because they are small, geographically. I also think having a global empire and losing it affected them deeply, and in some ways for the better.

Perhaps someone actually from the UK might chime in here? What do I know, I'm just an ignorant American.

Dirk

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PotatoBoy]

23. Really mature

Ah, real nice, a personal attack.

[Misunderestimator]

4. Actually, I probably might...

As long as they're offering a product I want/need. I'd much rather my money go to a minority-owned business.

[redqueen]

6. No

No more than I would support a "white-owned" business that advertised itself as such.

Separating ourselves from each other is not the way.

[Misunderestimator]

12. Not the same thing....

I actively pursue gay-owned or gay-friendly places of business for things I need before going to any others, because I want to support those businesses. I extend the same respect to any minority-owned enterprise. A white-owned business touting itself as such, is definitely not the same thing. Just as the NAACP could not be compared to any white-only exclusive organization.

[redqueen]

16. I don't think this is helpful

We're dividing ourselves from each other, and I think in the long run it hurts.

[PotatoBoy]

21. Agreed

I totally agree with redqueen. I hate it when groups segregate themselves from others. It feels like we're moving backwards. I can understand that some groups need support because discrimination is still happening. But I think we should be moving away from that stuff..

[noiretextatique]

69. tell that to all the banks and stores

that have moved out of urban areas.

[redqueen]

73. These posts of yours are stinging!

You're cutting RIGHT to the QUICK!

Is it not true that part of the reason some businesses leave the area is not their personal whim, but because insurers and the banks giving them credit to operate are using economic policies that reward them for leaving?

*sigh*

Such a huge, huge problem.

[Misunderestimator]

26. Not really... no different than supporting businesses...

that advertise on Air America. I support businesses that have interests that are similar to mine. Ain't capitalism grand?

[redqueen]

34. That's different

It's one thing to divide along idealogical lines. That's important, even! Look what's happened while liberals slumbered and snoozed.

We're not talking about ideology, though. We're talking about race. It makes no sense in that context. One race is no better than the other. If I were to say that because I'm a woman I'm only going to support woman-owned businesses, then what would be wrong with men doing the same thing? And ditto for blacks, hispanics, jews, etc. etc. etc... you end up alienating yourself from others, and that's bad and dangerous, IMO.

[Misunderestimator]

58. News for you... men already do support men-run businesses

Battling racism and supporting the ideals of affirmative action are supporting an idealogy. And yes... I would support a woman-run business before a man-run one, if the service or product was comparable. EVEN if I had to pay a bit more.

[redqueen]

61. *sigh*

And by doing the same thing, do you think that helps? I think it makes it worse.

IM(very)HO it's succumbing to the 'divide and conquer' strategy that's been used so well for so long.

[Misunderestimator]

64. Sounds like the same argument used by...

those who oppose affirmative action... you aren't going to convince me to change my opinion.

peace

On edit... post #36 says it all. If that doesn't make sense to you then we have no more to discuss.

[redqueen]

71. Not trying to change your mind, just understand

re: post #36, I see the point, but IMO it doesn't matter *what* the grounds for division are... mutable factor... immutable factor... the result is the same -- we're divided from each other.

I'm not against affirmative action at all -- I see the need for unifying people of all races, creeds, colors, etc. I just wish we could go about it in a way that doesn't seem to replicate the same actions as those that created the problem in the first place.

Peace also to you. :)

[Misunderestimator]

78. But the division happened long ago

... and the effort to gain equilibrium is happening now... it's a long road. We can't just immediately assume that minority-owned businesses do not need help. I know plenty of people, unfortunately, who would choose the white-owned business because it is more familiar to them. This world needs more people who are willing to take a chance on the underdog, or the underdog will never have a chance. Since the problem was already there and created long ago, a simple solution is not possible. Sure, it's possible for the people here... most wouldn't care who owned the business (unless they had reelect Bush crap all over the place). But MOST other people discriminate. Therefore, there is a need for people who are willing to change it at this lowest of levels.

[redqueen]

82. I see your point and agree

I shouldn't have answered "No", I should have said "Maybe". It truly would depend on where they were and what the service/product was like.

I guess I'm just oversensitive from being around rednecks all the time... I always try to couch my terms/arguments in ways that won't cause them to immediately slam their minds shut.

I think a better way to put this (to them, because that's usually how I think about the issues that make them go new-ku-lar) would be that I would support any deserving (well run, quality product, blah blah) struggling business over an already established successful one. No matter the race, sex, color, or reiligion of the owner.

*sigh*

I need to move.

[Misunderestimator]

84. Thanks... I also understand your stance.

And living around rednecks is just about to make me explode. I need to move too.

:)

On edit... and hey... you're from my hometown... you can't be all that bad... :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[redqueen]

86. Ahhhh... this is what I love!

Understanding! (even if total agreement can't be reached, at least understanding should be a goal!)

:loveya:

[Misunderestimator]

88. The beauty of thinking (liberal) minds... *shake* n/t

[Egalitarian Zetetic]

13. Well the vast majority of them are.No need to advertise<nt>

[redqueen]

17. True

But it's the nature of the advertising that's the sticking point, not the race of the owner.

[radwriter0555]

8. Sure, why not? So long as they were providing a service or product I

was interested in using.

I support local businesses 1000000%. I don't give a crap what color they are really, but why eschew one who advertises as such?

[bhunt70]

35. exactly.

[mike1963]

9. Probably not if I knew nothing else about them, but then I wouldn't be

inclined to do business with a publicly described "white-owned" one
either.
:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

10. If they've got the guts to proclaim themselves black-owned, sure I would

Services and products being more or less equal, I'm all for trying to level the playing field one business at a time. The sad thing is, it would probably turn away more business than it would encourage.

The businesses I stay away from are the self-proclaimed Christian-owned businesses. I've been burnt more than once.

[truthspeaker]

15. yes, because black Americans have suffered discrimination in ownership

Relating this to the "Christian-owned" business thread, black Americans have faced, and continue to face, racial discrimination when it comes to starting and maintaining their own businesses. The same can't be said of Christians; quite the opposite, actually.

[alarcojon]

19. Yes

all things being equal. I support minority owned businesses, as well as businesses owned by women, by homosexuals, by the disabled, etc (assuming the product is of a high quality).

To be clear, I operate from the assumption that we have yet to achieve a level playing field in this country. To me, this is self-evident. If you disagree with my assumption, then your answer to the question will probably differ from mine.

[redqueen]

39. Not necessarily

I also recognize that the playing field is FAR from level. However, I support correcting that imbalance in ways that exacerbate the division of the populace into little boxes that TPTB can manipulate at will.

[noiretextatique]

55. give me a fucking BREAK? how many white folks are going to Compton

or Harlem or East Oakland or South Central to get their hair done, or their clothes dry-cleaned, or to go shopping? some black-owned businesses actually operate in black communities that have long been abandoned by
the big retailers...banks, grocery stores, department stores. some actually serve the needs of mostly black communities.

[redqueen]

59. I don't know how your post relates to mine.

I was simply saying that while I do see that the playing field is not even, I am careful about the way to go about correcting the situation.

In other words: just because woman-owned businesses do worse than man-owned businesses, I will not divide myself from men and (IMO) thereby exacerbate the problem.

But what you're saying here touches on something FAR more important than this silly discussion about advertising and how it affects buying decisions...

Because of the history of redlining and other systemic discriminatory practices (credit springs to mind) there is a MASSIVELY uneven playing field, and unless and until more people understand just how severely that practice screwed this country up, progress will be slow indeed.

In this thread it seems we've set each other up to go at each other's throats, and that's exactly my problem with acquiescing so easily to the 'divide and conquer' strategy.

[noiretextatique]

65. my point is: some businesses serve a need that would go

unserved if they didn't exist. in some black communities, for example, there are many businesses owned by black people...because if they didn't provide the service: it would not exist. that's not about "divide and conquer"...it's just the way it is.

[redqueen]

75. Most definitely

In that situation it's not even about choice... it's about necessity. I took this post to be more aimed at those who would make a conscious decision to support a business based on the advertising of the owner's race.

What's sad and really needs addressing (far more than advertising debates) is WHY banks won't assist those businesses the same way the assist *other* businesses (like those in other zip codes, which... hmmmm I don't know... maybe are populated by people of a *certain* race!)

Tragic that news organizations like the AJC shut down investigations into this kind of crap back in the 80's.

I bet it's widespread now, and AFAIK we have no way to prove it.

:cry:

[noiretextatique]

81. not sure what the intent of this thread is

but i know that having grown-up in an all-black community...it probably means something entirely different to me than it might to someone who didn't have that experience.
interesting thing about banks and finance companies...they just about completely pulled out of certain areas, but the same companies came back as "poverty industry: businesses, e.g., check-cashing outlets, rent-to-own centers, etc. they can make a lot more money off poor people in their new incarnations. it's costs to be poor in america.
loans...even now, banks are still charging higher interest rates to certain people, even if they have good credit. it costs to be certain people in america, too.

[redqueen]

85. DAMN RIGHT

I get so SICK of crap like that... predatory businesses that exploit the poor. Lenders that base interest rates on skin color, not credit history. And people here don't even BELIEVE me when I talk about this!

:nuke:

I grew up in a mixed income and mixed race community... about an even mix of White, Black, and Hispanic. My Grandma (god rest her soul) lived in a Hispanic and Black community, and was married to a Black man, so I got to see how different things were in an area that *wasn't* of mixed income.

Sick sick sick anti-poor stuff going on in the halls of financial power. But hey, the world needs peons, right?

:mad:

[alarcojon]

90. another way

you seem to suggest that if someone is "race conscious" (for lack of a better term), then they are worsening the divisions that plague our society. I don't agree with this. Sure, there are some who go around saying that this group is better than that group - that sort of behavior is unacceptable. However, the path to eventual racial equality will come through greater mutual understanding. I seek out opportunities to achieve that understanding, and shopping at a black-owned business might be one way to do that.

[kayell]

22. Yes, for the same reasons that I support woman-owned, gay-owned

and other minority owned businesses and locally owned businesses. I want people in these groups to succeed. I want to do my (tiny) part to change the economic control of this country. I want to support people rather than some monstrous mega-corp. Of course this is also subject to the business being a reasonable place to shop ie. reasonable prices (which does not mean W-mart cheap), decent service and products.

And no, I don't consider this discriminating against Christians who advertise themselves as such that I don't choose to patronize.

[pennylane100]

24. There are business that display the fish (christian) symbol.

I'm not sure what you call if but I know it means Christianity.
I would not patronize those businesses and I probably would not go to a business that said it was black owned, or white owned or any other ethnic group owned. I just think it sends a message that they (all of them) want only customers of their own kind.

[Delano]

29. Yes, but LOCALLY owned is more important than race.

I wouldn't patronize them because of their race, just because they are not Wal-Mart.

Locally-owned businesses keep the money in the community. Conglomerates just loot the community.

[redqueen]

40. Very very good point!

I don't care about the race or religion of the proprietor - but having it locally owned and operated is a definite selling point!

Good for the environment, too!

[sangh0]

33. Of course I would

I would support any business that avoids immoral business dealings. I also support a business that advertises it's Christianity. You can see what they offer at www.sojo.net

[Az]

36. There is a difference

Blackness is something one is born with. You can't force it on someone else. It is an oppressed group of people that need to sometimes promote themself in order to try to catch up.

Christianity on the other hand is something that has to be indoctrinated. You are not born a Christian (technically we are all born atheists). It has to be pressed onto people. Usually it is through family indoctrination but sometimes it reaches out in other ways.

Thus promoting a business as a Christian entity can be seen as a means of oppressing others while promoting a companies black ownership is not. This is not always the case but it does run afoul by way of the potential.

[Misunderestimator]

62. Really well said... thank you n/t

[noiretextatique]

41. of course i support black-owned businesses

why wouldn't i?

[goodhue]

42. yes n/t

[dryan]

44. Wouldn't bother me!

In my part of Orlando most of the signs say "Se Habla Espanole". I shop there too!

[noiretextatique]

46. i spend my money with local businesses

and i do support any black, female entreprenuers i can find. my doctor and dentist are both black women.

[redqueen]

48. Divide and conquer

When will we learn?

[noiretextatique]

52. "black-owned" business are probably seeking black customers

to be honest.
that would be the pull...spend your money with me (someone in the community) vs. somewhere else.

[theboss]

57. Finally

That's the same response that should have been given on the Christian business thread.

[Misunderestimator]

60. Well, of course they are...

Just as a business advertising in the gay-yellow pages that is gay-friendly is attracting gay business... Doesn't mean that it doesn't also appeal to others. A black-owned business appeals to me because I care.

[noiretextatique]

77. definitely could appeal to others

but let me tell you...there are certain areas i would think twice about going to...even to support a black-owned business...and i am black.
i doubt hordes of Rockridgers and Piedmonters (ritzy areas here in Oakland) are rushing to East Oakland, just to support a black-owned business, even if they do care.

[pennylane100]

91. East Oakland used to be part of my sales territory.

I must admit I was a little nervous using the ATM in Eastmont Mall
(don't know if it still there) but the restuarants were good.

[Servo300]

54. wouldn't make any difference

one way or the other.

Not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character.

[redqueen]

63. *APPLAUSE*

Thank you. So so much.

:loveya:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. You got the analogy completely backwards

In order for it to bear a sliver of resemblance to the other thread, it should be a "WHITE-owned" business.

Now how does that sound?

[theboss]

70. Why is that a better analogy?

It's still just a group distinguishing themselves.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

74. WOW. Double airborne WOW on a dilithium-powered pogo stick.

If THAT didn't ring a bell, really, I am at a loss to explain.

OK, a feeble attempt on my part: study American history. All of it.

[theboss]

83. So Christian = White

Someone tell Jesse Jackson.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. Really

Now I'd have to do an in-depth treatise on what analogies are, how they work, and what are their limitations, along with the metaphorical use of "sliver" in the English language, something I don't really have time to do right now. Hasta la vista.

[redqueen]

76. I think it might have something to do with power

Just a guess...

:shrug:

[Misunderestimator]

80. Yep.... speaking as a "white" person...

I would never support a business that advertises itself as a "white-owned" business, but would absolutely support a minority-owned one... any minority, damn it.

[David Zephyr]

72. I Would Indeed Support A Self Described "Black Owned Business"

and would boycott a Christian business or any other religious business that advertised itself as a religious business.

I can not be proselytized into being Black.

[Misunderestimator]

79. LOL... Hear Hear n/t

[eridani]

92. Just one factor out of many

Minority owned, woman owned, locally owned--all plus factors, but they have to have what I need at reasonable prices.