Do you think that most Christians are anti-Jesus?

[genius]

As a Christian, I am completely offended by the holier-than-thou attitude of Christians who push bigotry and wars in the name of Christianity. In truth, there are a number of Christian Churches that are opposed to everything Bush is doing. However, Saddleback, one of the largest churches in OC, preaches bigotry from the platform. Elsewhere, Billy Graham and his son certainly don't seem to get the message of peace and love that Jesus taught. Neither do a number of other popular Christian leaders. A friend of my family told us to watch one of Billy's speeches. We did and he was talking about how some guy stopped people from going to heaven because the guy was noisy and they couldn't hear Billy speak and died without the benefit of his insight. Jesus taught humility and Graham doesn't have any.

[timeisnow777]

1. Supply side Jesus

I thought Al Franken hit the nail on the head with "Supply Side Jesus" in "Lies and the Lying..."

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. The fundagelicals don't really "get" Jesus as far

as applying his socialist tendencies toward others via the gov't. So they can only try to follow in His footsteps through the church or on their own.

But the people who attend the more liberal churches don't seem to have this problem.

Would Jesus Love a Liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[swag]

3. I don't get the amount of religious threads on this board

We have a president to elect.

[bhunt70]

5. I think people are more interested in showing prejudice to a group of

other people.

[bryant69]

19. Yep.

This is it in a nutshell.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. You haven't noticed that he guy we want to vote out has done his

durnedest to turn us into a thocracy? You BET religion is an issue these days.

[cheezus]

7. it makes for intresting dicussion in a place where most agree on most

besides, if our ONLY concern was electing the president we'd be out doing something instead of surfing DU.

[El Supremo]

10. We have a murderer to defeat.

Why so much Christian talk here and everywhere this election? Because the number one reason that people will vote for * is because they perceive him as being a good Christian. Boy, do they ever have it wrong. We need to convince these sheep that a real Christian would not invade other countries at all, let alone on these pretexts.

BTW, be sure and watch the encore of 'The Jesus Factor' on PBS tonight. It sheds some light on why this phony Christian nightmare is working for *.

BTW, 'Elmer Gantry' should be required reading for all voters this year.

[KittyWampus]

13. YES! The Religious Right Screamers Have Hijacked Public Discourse

and falsely claim to be advocates for Family Values and Spirituality.

Frankly, these discussions are VITAL to Democrats regaining control of our Government and keeping it from ruin.

Same thing with Patriotism.

[kysrsoze]

17. We need a stronger, more muscular, take-charge Jesus.

Not sure how many of you read the article where some people are starting to portray Jesus as more masculine and war-like. What a friggin' joke. People are so screwed in the head these days.

[bloom]

20. scariest (deleted) post ever

Sat Apr-24-04 08:38 AM

"44. Tillman's heroicism was unspeakably sublime--approaching divinity..."

<snip>

"Tillman's action is closest thing to Jesus' life I have ever seen. I am honestly speechless."

[Atlanticist]

21. Not just Elmer Gantry - Dostoyevsky wrote about Jesus

in The Brothers Karamazov, he wrote a famous chapter called "The Grand Inquisitor", set in 14th Century Seville during the Inquisition. Basically, Jesus returned and was branded a heretic by the Grand Inquisitor, who knew he was Jesus and had him jailed and burned for being "dangerous". "We follow Caesar now" was one of the things he told Jesus.

Strikes me that this is what the right wing church in the US has done - perverted the teaching of Jesus so much that if he returned, he'd probably be locked up by John Ashkkkroft as a subversive. "We don't like your sort, we're good Christian folk here".

Not sure Jesus was a Marxist, but he was certainly left-wing - a few, off the top of my head biblical examples;

the meek shall inherit the earth,
blessed are the peacemakers (not sure how fundies can support preemptive war when their "lord and saivour" said this);
it is more difficult for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle;
Jesus succoured the outcasts, didn't shun them;
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality - this was all Paul's writing;
Jesus overturned the moneychangers tables in the temple ("pastors" who make millions by encouraging donations make me sick)

Anyway, bottom line - the modern right wing church is an absolute perversion of the Christian faith, just as the Catholic church in the 14th century was. My vicar here in England, being a good liberal chap, is incensed by the war in Iraq, so we should be careful not to tar all Christians with the same brush.

[stinkeefresh]

4. Jesus has been hi-jacked by the pharisees.

It all started when the Roman Empire decided holding power would be a lot easier if they were the Holy Roman Empire. They created a canon, custom designed to keep power in their hands, discarding books that were too hard to manipulate the meaning of.

I could go on and on.

In my opinion, the closest thing to a large-scale return of the true teachings of Jesus was The Beatles.

[tom_paine]

9. Excellent post

I would say the Flower Power movement, myself.

But, historically, that makes perfect sense.

Jesus lived during the phased transition of Rome from Republic to Empire.

Flower Power and the Beatles arose during a VERY analogous period (well, the Final Peak of the Old Republic, so theye were seperated, metaphorically speaking, but just a decade or two) in American History, the last decades of the Old Republic, during which it's very likely the Seeds of Tyranny had already been planted by the Busheviks.

Bye, JFK, RFK, MLK...

[CityZen-X]

11. All You Need Is Love!

The Christians that I associate with do not grasp, in my opinion, of what Yashua is all about. Jesus was a Liberal, no doubt in my mind. He detested the hypocritical Pharisee's and their fundi approach. He hung around with hookers, murders, and sinners of all types. Yashua was a pacifist, but you can't get that opinion from any fundi these days. Their reaction is verse from the OT, which in my opinion, and I am a Christian, is a collection of campfire stories!
"Jesus Was Way Cool," you should check out the lyrics in this song performed by, King Missile, with the lyrics written by Molly Ringwald.

[stinkeefresh]

15. Molly?!

I had no idea! But I should have - I made a feature film about Jesus, and we quote that song!

One of the characters thinks Jesus (who has just shown up, as a hitchhiker) should be able to "make the most delicious cake". His friend corrects him:

"it's from a song, bozo. by King Missle."

"I've never heard of King Missle, but I think that's in the Bible."

"it's NOT in the Bible!"

"well even if it's not technically in the Bible, Jesus should be able to do shit like that!"

As you can well guess, our film has not been embraced by American distributers.

But we did win our category at the Santa Fe film festival! Woo-hoo!

www.jesusfreakmovie.com

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. If Saul hadn't become Paul

the whole world would be better off.

I put the blame for the hijacking of christianity squarely on his shoulders. Then when christianity became the official state religion of the Roman Empire, true christianity faded into oblivion. Actually, it didn't fade, all the heretics were rounded up and killed but at least they left behind the Nag Hammadi library. Now 2000 years later, we again have access to the real unabridged teachings of Jesus. Too bad, most people are still unaware of these documents.

[Solomon]

27. Exactly right. I call christians, "paulines" because they follow paul

and not christ. They use christ's name, but they teach and preach paul.

Listen to the sermons in church. You hear paul's name mentioned ten times that of Jesus.

[Cheswick2.0]

28. really, what church is that?

Never been to one of those.

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Just about any mainstream christian church

and their members are Pauline Christians.

When christianity first started out that were numerous sects and versions. Most of these sects eventually fell into one of three categories. Jewish Christians, Gnostic Christians and Pauline Christians. It was the Pauline Christians who formed an alliance with the Roman Empire. At that point all other christians were deemed heretics and most of them were put to death.

Hence, the form of christianity that most modern Christians who follow the New Testament is Pauline Christianity, since it is the teachings of Paul that they follow over Jesus. The Jesus that they follow is a combination of the Jewish Jesus and Mithras the pagan god that Paul of Tarsus melded into the Jesus of the New Testament.

[genius]

34. Good comment

[tom_paine]

8. Both 1 and 2

The sad part is: This same thing has been going on for 2000 years with little progress made.

"Good Lutherans" manned and staffed the concentration camps in Germany.

"Good Catholics" burned thousands of innocents over the 16th & 17th Century during the fever of which trials, which grew out of

The fact that Good Christians everywhere tortured, raped and burned the victims of various Inquisitions gleefully in the 14th and 15th Centuries.

Nothing seems to change much, does it, including the fact that a sizeable minority (perhaps even a majority) of Christians act as if they are following the teachings of the AntiChrist.

Sad. very sad. I have no doubt, if Christ is floating around up there, his anguish over this ("NOOOOOOO!!!! NOT AGAIN!!!!") is more immense than mere mortals can imagine.

[genius]

24. I wonder if Washington is looking down at hte so-called patriots

and wondering what they did to his country.

[jpgray]

12. We'd kill him pretty quick. Maybe even beat the Romans' time (nt)

[rucky]

14. The Religious Right is a LOUD MINORITY n/t

[Az]

16. Its a far more complex issue than that

I highly recommend looking into the research conducted by the Jesus Seminar. This was a group of Bible Scholars and historians as well as members of various clergy who sat down and examined the bible with an eye for determining what could truly be said to be the words of Jesus.

What they found was for many very disheartening. They found that there were so many different representations of Jesus that most of the bible could not be relied on. In the end they could only ascertain that about 9% of the words attributed to Jesus could honestly be considered to have truly come from him (assuming the existance of a historical Jesus).

In the end most religions are not about the doctrine that they claim their beliefs flow from. Instead it comes from a sort of nebulous combination of text, social beliefs, and personal beliefs.

A person can be confronted with an idea directly taken from the bible. An idea put forward by Jesus. And if it does not resonate with their set of beliefs they will reject it. They will use a wide range of means to reject it including claiming such things as it is out of context or misinterpretted.

I offer you a test to see this in action. Go read Luke 6:30. You can read the entire chapter if you wish as there are a number of very good ideas contained therein. But Luke 6:30 is particularly problematic for many. Have someone claiming to love Jesus and the word read this passage and then start asking them for things. They will scurry for all manner of excuses as to why they do not hand them over.

The thing of it is Luke 6:30 matches very closely with the idea that Jesus was preparing the way for people to enter into heaven. Clinging to material things can only slow you down. Yet people will reject this direct instuction because it does not fit their world view.

[Selwynn]

18. I come from christian background, but I believe Both 1 and 2.

[Texican]

22. Country Song

There is a new C&W song out that is a a parody of Bob Dylan's old 115th Dream. I think it is by James Kean. The lyrics talk about who will go to heaven or hell. One line goes "Buddha wasn't a Christian, but Jesus would have made a good Buddhist." He has a lot of preachers confined to the lowest levels of hell in his Inferno. I think a lot of DUers would like it.

[VOX]

23. The early Christian community was utterly downtrodden...

Fundamentalists seem to have no clue as to who Jesus was -- an out-and-out radical who went against the established order to the extent that he was executed for it.

It's not often that fundamentalists bring up the Beatitudes -- they just don't mix with their God-and-guns point of view:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[markomalley]

26. I agree with you...bigotry, envy, and arrogance are not

Christian virtues. When I see somebody purporting to be a Christian while at the same time displaying those traits, I positively get sick to my stomach. Christians should try to live up to Jesus' message, not to think that they are holier than their own savior.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1565414

[Cheswick2.0]

29. how about when you see people who are not Christians displaying

those traits? Does that make you sick too?

[markomalley]

30. dupe...

.

[markomalley]

31. Not nearly as much...

(not to say that I enjoy non-Christians acting that way either, but I do not get nearly as outraged)

[Amaya]

32. First off...

Most Fundamentalist Christians don't have a freaking clue what Jesus actually taught. Jesus was adamant about mixing politics and faith. Jesus, was a nonviolent man and taught his disciples to be likewise. He was also liberal in his views toward 'sinners'. He didn't teach one size fits all.
Honesty, I don't know what bible they're reading?
These so called 'Christians' fit the bible for their beliefs and it should be other way around.

Just my two cents ;)