How important is it for you to discuss religion?

[bryant69]

How important is it that we continually discuss religion, both pro and con on this board? I'm probably not expressing this elagently, but people clearly have different ideas on religion. Religion posts generally are very vigerously discussed, and often involve insults and assumptions being made (on both sides). But I'm curious how important is this debate to Democratic Underground.

Of course in the interest of full disclosure, I am a church going Christian and I've generally posted on that side of the fence.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[shraby]

1. If we're talking politics, we

shouldn't be talking religion...they're supposed to be separate, remember?

[bryant69]

2. I suppose one response to that is

Yeah, but they aren't really. Many religious people have strong political views connected to their political beliefs.

[LiberalFighter]

19. I would agree except

it is the only way to educate everyone the place that religion belongs in the political arena.

Essentially, religious beliefs should not be pushed on Americans.

Should a church dictate to the local communities, the state or the federal government that:

Dancing is prohibited?
Drinking is prohibited?
Shaving is prohibited?
Clothing must follow prescribed requirements?
the hours that businesses may be open?
tithing be withheld from everyones wages?
Marriage to more than one person at the same time be permitted?

I don't think so and would find it distasteful to have any or all of the many churches dictating my beliefs.

There is nothing stopping churches from practicing their beliefs within their religious community as long as they are not in violation of any government laws. But when they force their way on the rest of the community they have stepped over the boundary permitted for them.

The duty of all elected officials is to serve all of their constitutents regardless of their religious beliefs or lack of same.

[dand]

28. Religion is a mind numbing opiate

Civilization would be a thousand years more advanced without it.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

3. I only voted extremely because...

.. a lot of social issues (evolution, abortion, gay rights, abstinance, etc) all have roots in Religion and NOT anywhere else.

You never hear a debate pro/con gay rights from anthropologists or social scientists. Evolution is science but is ridiculed only by religion.

We're on the cutting edge of new technologies (nano-, quantum processors, genetics, etc)... if religion becomes a dominant POLITICAL force instead of a personally spiritual journey.. it is VERY important it not only be discussed but debated, heatedly.

[smirkymonkey]

4. Thank you!! n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

5. not very

I usually only discuss it when someone else brings it up.

[Az]

6. Religion is a dominant part of our society

While we recognise the need to keep it disconnected from our government it cannot be disengaged from how people think. To this effect to understand some groups you have to understand their religion.

Our society has created a certain tension when discussing religion (and politics for that matter). As such it has become a taboo subject. The dialog between various positions has ceased to be one of philosophical discourse and has become entrenched positions. No longer able to compare notes with each other each camp has descended into their own isolated view of the world around them.

The only way to bust out of this situation is to talk. Its gonna be messy. Our society really hasn't done this in generations. But we are stagnating and without the various sides getting to know each other better (rather than assuming they know everyone elses postion) we will continue to stagnate.

Talk. Find out what is really going on inside other people's minds. Be aware that the rules of engagement in this subject are horribly atrophied. Understand that there may be some things that you simply cannot currently understand about the other positions. Understand that they may hold some fear about the destructive nature of your beliefs.

We are all born blind and screaming into this world. It is only by working together that we have any chance of survival.

[trumad]

8. Religion is why society is so fucked up!

World Wide!

[bryant69]

10. Good answer

Az has a nice thoughtful post on how we need to discuss religion, and you explain why there is little to no point in so doing. I mean if your saying "Convert (to Atheism or Agnosticism or whatever) or else" and I am saying "No" (or, to be sure, if I were saying "Convert or else" and you were saying "No") there is no point to discussion is there?

[trumad]

30. No..I'd be happy to discuss why it's fucked up...

That's my thoughtful post.

[Servo300]

7. I'm happy to discuss my religion if necessary

But I don't think it should be used as a means for judging others.

[Mountainman]

9. It is important because the religious right believes in the cultural war

idea.

If we let our guards down and do not speak up when our Constitutional rights are being trampled on we will lose them. It is not communists or terrorists who want to take away the Constitutional protections it is our fellow citizens who use their faith as the ramrod to tear down the separation of Church and State.


It is very important just as it would be important if a foreign power were in out midst.

[mopaul]

11. If our nation wasn't being fucked by insane religious maniac guys...

it would be just polite party chatter. but yes, i think it's important that bush has a hard on for the rapture

[hippiegranny]

12. it is important to discuss how to keep religion OUT of politics

if the past four years can be used as an example, i'd say that pretty much sums up my point.

[Monte Carlo]

13. I'd say religion and politics both involve a lot of theory...

... and the two often intersect. They're not the exact same animal, but they have a lot in common; there's no solid line seperating them.

The problem, I'd say, is when people get zealous. But healthy debate and discussion of religion should be welcomed here.

[drb]

14. My religion is the reason I'm a Democrat.

I've got a good job (knock on wood!) and money in the bank. I'm not dependent on the government for welfare or any kind of programs (well, OK, maybe Social Security someday). I pay a pretty decent chunk of money in taxes every year. So, I'm not a Democrat because it's in my financial best interest.

For better or worse, all the people I hang out with at work are engineers and all the people I hang out with outside of work are Churchy types. I'm certainly not a Democrat because all my friends are Dems.

My parents never talked politics, so I'm not a Democrat because I was brought up that way.

I am a Democrat because I am a Christian, and the values of the Democratic party come much closer to reflecting the values of Christ than the Republicans.

Jesus: Blessed are the poor.
Republicans: They're poor because they're lazy.

The Apostle John: If you have the goods of this world and you do not share with those in need, how can you say you have the love of God in you?
Republicans: Tax cuts for the rich. Program cuts for the poor.

...and it goes on and on.

Many of you do not consider yourself to be Christians, and I don't blame you. The way people who claim to be Christians have been acting, it's enough to turn anybody away from the Lord.

But hear this, and please hear it well - there are more people on this board who are on God's side and don't know it than you'll find in many churches on Sunday morning.

That's why I'm here.

---

"Don't the Bible say we must love everyone?"
"O, the Bible! To be sure, it says a great many such things, but then no one ever thinks of doing them. You know, Eva, nobody does."
--Harriet Beecher Stowe, "Uncle Tom's Cabin"

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

21. Hear! Hear! n/t

[checks-n-balances]

26. Jimmy Carter, MLK Jr., are very good alternatives to the Religious Right

as far as how religion has been a POSITIVE effect on lives of leaders without being something they think they should impose on us. Human rights & justice are themes from their type of Christianity that the right wingers CHOOSE to ignore. It's actually there within Christianity, but they choose to flaunt their own self-righteousness as all-important.

I certainly don't believe it's the most important topic to discuss at DU, but I like to enter the conversation when it's relevant. (And I'm speaking mostly about Christianity as my main frame of reference since I'm not as knowledgeable about other religions. I know it's not the only one, but it's the dominant one within the RW in the U.S.)

Too many people act like you have to leave your brain at the door when you walk into church. That would be funny if it weren't downright dangerous! And the RW does not OWN religion, although they've almost completely hijacked and redefined it to suit their own purposes. I'm not going to let them do that, because the way I interpret the Bible lets me know God is NOT on the side of the rich and powerful. But it's so obvious that some people have twisted it into a way for them to support their own prejudices and to rationalize their selfishness, and they're the ones making the most noise. A couple of years ago a great book about that subject came out, and it was called "Stealing Jesus." The title says it all!

MLK, Jr. was prophetic in calling an unthinking fundamentalism "dangerous," and that's why I use his words about that in my post signature (see below.)

Personally, as a child, I spent some time around fundamentalism and knew I hated it - I didn't like the way God was being portrayed. But (unfortunately) that brand of Christianity is not going to go away! So, later in life, I know that's why I pursued a degree in theology because

a) I wanted to study it for myself and find out what it REALLY was about, and

b) there's so much BAD theology out there being espoused by the religious right (and forced on others by them) that I'm committed to expressing an alternative viewpoint.

A professor of mine described the stuff I always hated "The Theology of Narcissism" - when God is perceived as That Great Goody Dispenser In The Sky (or the Being who would rather punish you forever than love you). And IMHO that's the way God is being "used" by the RR - to get and keep power, in a way that I can only describe as "demonic"!

I sense having much more in common with posters at DU than I would at some right wingnut board, ESPECIALLY if the subject turned to religion. We don't know one another in person here, but I've got more "soul mates" among you here - religious or not - than most anywhere else on the 'net (so, thanks, people!).

Some of you have made the astute observation that the RR go out of their way NOT to follow the words and ways of Jesus! And drb took the words right out of my mouth with these thoughts:

"Many of you do not consider yourself to be Christians, and I don't blame you. The way people who claim to be Christians have been acting, it's enough to turn anybody away from the Lord.

"But hear this, and please hear it well - there are more people on this board who are on God's side and don't know it than you'll find in many churches on Sunday morning."

I think lots of you do "get it" and your thoughts & opinions often reflect more understanding than you realize.

[truthseeker1]

15. They are intertwined

Yeah, the topic of religion can be avoided, but it really drives so many of a person's political views that it's hard.

I have to say.....my own worldview didn't change (used to be a Repub!) until I moved away from my Christian upbringing.

Now I am a full-on progressive and other progressives that I've met and become friends with just can't imagine me being a Republican. Well, it had sooooo much to do with my belief system back then. No wonder I was conflicted!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. Religion threads serve a purpose.

They tell me who to put on my Ignore list. :eyes:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. It's not 'important' to discuss anything at DU.

It's a way to pass the time, and maybe learn something.

[mopaul]

18. i enjoy all views, and i am never offended by anything i read here

i've never alerted a mod, unless it's an obvious troller.
but, any religious thread, pro or con, brings out the debaters.
mass debaters.

[El Supremo]

20. It is important because of the "Jesus Factor" in this election.

Oh and watch the show on PBS tonight!

[SarahB]

22. Religion is personal

It should hold no place in our government. The only time we should discuss it, is when someone needs to be reminded of this fact. Remember, this is not a theocracy.

[MrSlayer]

23. The world would be better of without religion.

It's primitive, superstitious nonsense.

[mvd]

24. Somewhat important because..

after what Bush has done, we have some patching up of relations to do in the Middle East. If we discuss with vitriol, though, it's not worth it. Voted #3.

[Sirveri]

25. We're kinda Secular I guess...

The main problem with religion is that it overlaps in certain areas that are 'claimed' by the government. Marriage is one great instance of overlap. Hence the opposition to gay marriage. They're(the religious zealots) opposed for two reasons; 1) Gays are immoral and gawd hates them, and 2) Gawd says marriage is between a man and a woman.

The question here is not if they have the right to their opinions, the question is if they're allowed to force them upon everyone else. To which the freepers invariably counter "well they're forcing gay marriage on us!" I'd go into just how wrong that statement is, but most here at DU will realize that.

The main problem I have with religions is that most religions do not allow tolerance. In a way, I respect them, because ultimately they believe that they are doing the right thing. They are fighting to save YOUR soul. It's really quite self less, someone fighting to protect you because of the morals that were instilled within them. The only problem is that they don't understand that things based on faith and not truth(which to them are the same thing) are subjective.

So does religion have a place in public discourse, of course it does. Because it so heavily influences so many people and blinds some of them to reason.

[OHdem10]

27. People should be free to

disuss Religion as with any subject. We can get into trouble
unless we are extremely clear. All three of the Great Religions have Fundamentalist Wings. I am guilty of using Fundie carelessly so I
hope you understand where I am coming from. Christian means --those who believe in Jesus Christ which includes Catholics. I usually for example just call myself a Catholic. Misunderstanding can be avoided if we are specific. If we are talking about Fundamentalists, say Fundamentalists. If we are talking about the Religious Right--be specific. If we are talking about Catholics--Conservative Catholics Liberal Catholics.

[LWolf]

29. Other.

It is extremely important that we discuss any and all significant topics affecting our lives, our nation, and the world. If religion is signficant in some way, it ought to be included in the discussion.

It's also extremely important, to this Lone Wolf DUer, that we discuss all significant topics, including religion, with civility and respect.