Catholics - check in.

[mdmc]

DU has a hard time with religion; please only post if you are Catholic.

My questions:
1] To you take communion on Sunday?
2] Do you support choice?
3] Have you spoken to your priest regarding the Church's 'ban' on Catholic politicians receiving the Eucharist?
4] Do you think this ban should be in place for politicians that support the death penalty?

My priest, a good Jesus loving liberal, claims that God's love commands that NO person wishing to celebrate the Eucharist should ever be denied it.

[shraby]

1. I'm Catholic but

don't go to church anymore for a number of reasons. I will cite a couple.
When I see the Pope in all his pomp and circumstance going to the poor Latin American countries and those people who are dirt poor kiss his ring, I can only think of how much good he could do for the poor if he spread a little of the churches monies around where it's needed.

The abuse scandals that are rocking the church were covered up for many many years..not very Christian, now is it?

I get very irritated when the church, which enjoys tax-exempt status, turns around and meddles in politics. If it is going to do this, they should lose their tax-exempt status and not longer be classes as a religion because we have a separation of church and state which works both ways.

There are more reasons i.e. birth control but I won't go into them as it would entail a small book.

[Mountainman]

2. My brother is a priest and he would agree with your priest

[Hekate]

3. Kick: wishing you well with your discussion

It's much-needed among American Catholics, and I hope it's going on all over the country.

As a non-Catholic person interested in religions, I guess I have some pressing questions for that Colorado bishop:
Have you ever looked into the Dominionist theology of those who are trying to make this country a theocracy? Doesn't it occur to you that they enormously outnumber Catholics? Aaaaand: according to Catholic church teachings, isn't their belief-system actually heretical? So: are you really sure these are the people you want running the country and deciding what's moral and legal?

Good luck, mdmc.

Hekate
who thinks religious freedom protects all of us

[scarletlib]

8. Not only that but the fundies ala Falwell, Bob Jones

hate Catholicism itself. I grew up in the South and I know this is true. The think of the Church as the Whore of Babylon so the Catholic Church getting in "bed" with these guys is only going to hurt the Church.

I got a real laugh at the ultra right wing Christians falling in with Mel Gibson and his movie. Mel's little branch of Catholicism thinks they are all heretics going to hell and if these people knew what Mel's brand of Catholicism was all about they would and do think the same thing of him.

[scarletlib]

4. I'm Catholic

But, I haven't gone to Church or had Communion in several years. I moved away from the Church when it began to move away from Vatican II and was becoming more reactionary.

I love the beauty, the rituals and deep spirituality that can be found in the Church. I'm not so happy about a group of old men still telling women they are not/can not be equals in the Church.

If I wanted I would take Communion. Your Priest is right about Communion. The final arbiter for a Catholic is his/her conscience.

[pf99]

5. Checking In

I am a "Cradle Catholic" and could never or would never leave the Church

"My questions:
1] To you take communion on Sunday?"
YES

"2] Do you support choice?"
I OPPOSE ABORTION BUT THAT IS NOT A PRIMARY ISSUE IN HOW I VOTE.

"3] Have you spoken to your priest regarding the Church's 'ban' on Catholic politicians receiving the Eucharist?"
NO BUT I AM GREATLY CONCERNED. I AGREE WITH YOUR PRIEST.

"4] Do you think this ban should be in place for politicians that support the death penalty?'
NO BUT I THINK THE CHURCH NEEDS TO EMPHASIZE THEIR "PRO LIFE" STANCE WHICH IS NOT ONLY OPPOSITION TO ABORTION BUT OPPOSITION TO THE DEATH PENALTY AND UNJUST WARS.

ALSO THE CHURCH SHOULD EMPHASIZE SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES AS "PRO LIFE"

[scarlet_owl]

6. I'm going to take RCIA classes this year,

but I do support choice. I think abortion is a horrible thing, but if it becomes illegal, it will go underground and become dangerous. I don't think the Eucharist should be denied to anyone because of their political stances. Church and state should be separated at all times.

On Edit: I was born into a Catholic family, but my parents were both black sheep who decided against raising their children in the Church. I still had to go to weddings and funerals, and occasionally Mass. I have explored many different religions in my life (I was raised in a Wiccan household), but I have arrived back where I came from.

[Chuletas]

7. born Catholic

I now attend Episcopal Church, it seems more welcoming and less intimidating to me and allows me to be closer to my faith rather than to quote the movie Dogma which probably quotes someone else, "mourning my faith" I have many many more good Catholics than bad in my life and my main quarrel is with the reactionary leadership and the way that the abuse has been swept under the rug.

I also like the fact that there are women in leadership in the Episcopal Church and that the priest visited my house several weeks after we began attending for a friendly chat. I panicked at first but he ended up being a real person, a veteran and father who seems to have a life outside the church but still always have his faith with him. The Catholic leadership unfortunately comes off to me as royalty and I believe in democracy.

I'll always be a Catholic in my heart and I'm sure my grandmother is twirling around in her grave.

[bleedingheart]

9. My answers

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. I don't think there should be a ban at all. If the church wants to play politics then let them be taxed.

I have met labor priests who are not pro-choice but they advocate a voting for Democrats since Democrats are the party of the people that care about people from birth until death....
My local parish priest is more liberal than most.

[jpgray]

10. Well, technically not Catholic anymore

1] Nope
2] Yes
3] No
4] No, a ban should not be in existence. If it were, most of the clergy would be unable to take it themselves. The Catholic Church is in constant contradiction of its own doctrine, and, living in hypocrisy, has little grounds to demand better of its members.

[leftchick]

11. I am a lapsed Catholic.....

I came back to the Church 10 years ago after being away about 15 years.
To answer your questions....

1)Yes
2)Oppose abortion personally but would never impose my view on someone else. It is a decision between them and God if they are religious.
3)No, I refer to our parish priest as Father Bushbot, so I won't waste my breath,
4)No, If the Catholic church is to realistically pursue this issue they would have to include those people who use birth control and some Reproductive Technologies. It is all the same can of worms for them.

You priest sounds wonderful! I wish we had someone like him. :)

[wellstone dem]

12. practicing Catholic

Yes (I am a Eucharistic Minister)
No
Yes, he doesn't think the Eucharistic Minister is the Eucharistic Judge.
No, I think the current policy of if you are in a state of Mortal Sin (We Catholics know it when we see it.) applies. Just as pro-choice politicians should not be denied the death penalty, pro-death penalty politicians should not.

I vote pro-life, which to me is not a one issue vote. It involves supporting those who love one another in a committed relationship, Gay or Straight. It involves the death penalty, abortion, welfare, the environment, care for victims of abuse, war.

When I place my vote, the choice is always clear, and here, it is either Democrat or Green.

[FreakinDJ]

13. I'm Catholic

1. Now I only go to church on Christmas and Easter

2. I am pro-choice in the fact it is "Each Person's own decision" They will be the one to stand in front of God at the end of the day and answer for their decisions. BTW...most things in life happen for a reason. If you believe it is all God's plan then the abortion happened for a reason also.

3. No

4. The church should stay out of this mess and just what the heck are they doing supporting Bush's position. This in time will go down as a great controversy in the Catholic church. This is exactly why there are so many "Stupid Rules" in the catholic faith. To prevent things like this from happening

Further more i find it very hard to believe the Vatican to have aligned their self in any way with this evil empire considering all the times Bishops in Central America have gone toe to toe with the BFEE

[Trajan]

14. EX-Catholic .....

Indoctrinated into catholic piety before being aware of man's propensity to lie ....

Not long after Confirmation: THIS good little altar boy became atheist .....

It's been over 30 years since my last confession ... and I have never looked back, cept to watch the 'freak show' I left behind ...

[Maeve]

15. Yes, yes, no, not really--shouldn't be a ban at all

If my bishop or local church takes a public stand in favor of this nonsense, I'll give them a piece of my mind, but I won't let them deny me the Eucharist.
I will deny them any claim to a penny of my money, though. Catholics already give only half of what Protestants do to their churches, a fact that began about the time the birth control encyclical came out.

[powergirl]

16. Cradle Catholic Reporting in

1. I take communion on Sunday
2. I support choice
3. I have spoken with my priest and he believes that abortion is a sin. But people who are sinning need to receive the Eucharist more than anyone and to deny that to them would be cruel and would prevent them from receiving Jesus in their lives.
4. I don't think anyone should be denied communion for the reasons stated in #3. However, I have noticed that "Christians" in the media who advocate denial of communion to pro choice politicians usually support executing retarded people, pointless wars, denial of human needs to the indigent, etc. Have you noticed that most of these kooks aren't even Catholic?

My kids go to Catholic school b/c here in Texas, the Christian coalition kooks have taken over the schools and have succeded in making "controversial" teachings such as evolution be taught side by side with other "theories."

As a Catholic, I try to be compassionate to the human condition. If someone has to make a desperate choice for something like abortion, we as Christians need to show compassion and support.

Anyway, that's my good ole' Catholic girl rant.

[alcuno]

17. I'm a Catholic no matter what.

1. Yes
2. I'm not sure that I support it. I'm simply neutral on the issue when it comes to others. I believe that abortion for me is a sin, but I have come to accept the fact that others believe differently. I don't want Roe v. Wade overturned.
3. No
4. No ban at all on anything.

[mvd]

18. My answers

1) No. I'm not practicing at all. I believe in God, Jesus, and the afterlife, but I'm much more spiritual than religious. I prefer to worship in my own way. There are some things not in the Catholic faith that I feel are possible - like reincarnation.

2) I am completely pro-choice. Also, I think there are valid reasons for most abortions. There are few I'm morally opposed to.

3) Again, I don't go to Church.

4) I am against the death penalty in all cases even though it may be tempting sometimes. But, I don't feel the Church should be banning in this way at all. Jesus sacrificed himself for everyone.

[UrbScotty]

19. Proud Catholic here!

1. Yes
2. No, honestly - BUT I do support abortiuon IF it's necessary, i.e. if the woman's life is at stake.
3. No, but I think I might
4. No; EVERYONE ought to be entitled to the Eucharist. It is a symbol of God's mercy and love for us. God loves all of us, and Jesus forgave us all, even serial murders. I know that's hard to accept (it's definitely hard for me to accept), but it's true. He died for all of our sins.

"Lord, Have Mercy. Christ, Have Mercy. Lord, Have Mercy."

[Tinoire]

20. Hmmmm. Hard questions

1. No because I have certain things in my past to repent, atone for & before I can take communion. And repenting means that you firmly resolve NOT to do it again because you recognize it was wrong and are determined not to do it again. I have a stumbling block in that field right now.

2. Yes inasmuch as abortion is an evil necessity in a society that refuses to provide social safety nets for women and children but I personally vehemently disagree with it. Also, I view it as your choice between you, God and your conscience and not mine. I think one of the main problems in our society is that we do not view life as holy. All life is holy from conception to death. I am as much against abortion as I am against the death penalty but I also recognize, in this complicated, rotten world, that there are worse sins than abortion. Leaving 'alive' children to die of hunger in Haiti because we want to squeeze every ounce of labor from them for free is an even greater crime. Allowing Nestle to distribute free formula to African women so that their breast milk dries up right around the time they run out of "coupons for free formula" is an even greater crime. The Catholic Church has spoken against all those evils but who in America has taken the time to listen? Very few... When the Pope wrote encyclicals last decade about the evils of materialism and globalization, who paid any attention? No one and it was deliberately not publicized except in Church.

3. No because I agree with it. Communion is not something to be taken lightly. If you are a member of the Church and the Church tells you "our beliefs are X,Y,Z, then sorry, that's the way it is- leave the Church if you don't agree & go munch on some 'bread' elsewhere. In the Catholic Church you are not just 'munching' on bread- you are masticating Jesus and acknowledging your part in the sins that got him nailed to that cross. It's not a Sunday garden-walk to some party as too many people seem to think.

4. Hard question but I am torn on this because there are plenty of instances for which God dictated the death penalty. I don't believe that Jesus overturned that but I do believe that He asked us to have mercy and compassion and that's something that's sorely lacking in our justice system and in our hearts. When I look at Bush & Rumsfeld, I honestly DO think "death penalty"; when I look at stupid Lynndie England, I have more compassion because IMO she was used & set up ((Before you jump on me, let me quickly say that all the photos they're leaking are dated in November, after the second investigation into atrocities was well under way and the real culprits had already been whisked out of the area- I believe Lynndie and co were 'manipulated' into participating & posing for those photos so that they could take the fall after the true culprits from Military Intelligence & third party nationals were safely whisked out of sight). Still, that is rage speaking in my heart and I recognize it. I think the Church, the official Church, has consistently been against the death penalty; the Vatican has consistently interceded on behalf of death penalty cases often with the Pope directly interceding.


Your priest is correct but I would differ with him on one issue. Taking communion is a holy act and if you truly believe that Jesus Christ is God & that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus Christ, then only the purest vessel can receive it. Unlike the Ark of the Covenant, which also hosted the spirit of God, we are not pure and never have been but the Catholic Church has the rite of confession and absolution in place where you repent of sins against love of God & man, and become pure enough in "intention" to receive the body of Christ. If the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is wrong and you do not believe that, why on earth do you want to be a Catholic? It's not a social club and I take grave exception to people who treat it that way.

I agree with your priest that no one should ever be 'denied' but their hearts should be in the right place also. If you are in "open" rebellion against the teachings of the Church, how can your heart be in the right place? The Church is not a democracy and everyone knows that- if you do not agree with their teachings, leave the Church. Stop saying you're a Roman Catholic because you're not. A Roman Catholic recognizes that the Pope is infallible as far as doctrine is concerned. If you disagree with the doctrine, you do not belong in the church. Tu es Petrus was said to Peter, the first Pope, with an eternal promise, to protect the Church, that the flames of hell shall not prevail against it. I believe that. As cynical as I am. As bitter as I am over what some MEN have done, I will not turn my back on my Church because my Church is more than some rebellious or misguided hedonistic priests who won't (or can't) keep their freely chosen vow of celibacy, it's a Church of weak, fallible human beings trying to make this world a better place.


Anyway, to make a long post short (and I know it's too late) the Church has consistently, vocally spoken against the war. I wish they would screw public thought in America and deny communion to people who supported/support it.

[Hekate]

21. Excellent article in today's LA Times on this very issue

Feel free to post it as a separate thread. I'm just checking in here before leaving my computer for several hours, so I can't do it myself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/cl-et-rutten22may22,2,3464564.column?coll=cl-calendar

REGARDING MEDIA / TIM RUTTEN
Put faux uproar into context
May 22 2004

The great Jesuit theologian John Courtney Murray, whose 20th century reflections on religion and American democracy still are without equal, once wrote that "the law must countenance many evils that morality forbids."

If that sort of nuanced religious thinking seems somehow novel, it isn't because it's absent from contemporary Catholicism's moral reasoning. It is, however, ignored in most of the mainstream
American news media's coverage of the church.

A perfect case in point is the way much of the press has handled the ongoing faux controversy over whether Roman Catholic officeholders who have cast votes favoring abortion rights ought to be denied Communion by their clergy. (Substitute Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, the
Democrats' presumptive presidential nominee, for "officeholder" and you've got the real point of what's going on.)

One of the most important things missing from the coverage of this situation is context. The church's American hierarchy did not initiate a confrontation over this matter. Rather, a handful of relatively obscure and reckless prelates — just four out of the nation's 300 Catholic bishops — have walked into a controversy fueled by political partisans tied to the Republican Party.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've copied the entire article into my files because the Los Angeles Times archives things much more quickly than they claim to. Anyhow, imo I think this is worth its own thread, but I leave it to you.

Cheerio my deario, there's a dance in the old dame yet.
Hekate