be honest: who here wasn't a clinton fan

[taxidriver]

I don't mean for this to turn into a comparison of Clinton and Shrub. As a democratic politician, what did you think of him? I certainly enjoyed 8 years of peace and prosperity, but to me, he always came off sounding like a used car salesmen.

i'll go ahead and don my flame suit.

[keithyboy]

1. Right now I would rather have a used car saleman running the country!

It couldn't be worse.

[ewagner]

2. Reluctant

I was a reluctant Clinton fan. To be honest he grew on me to the point where I admired him. But I did feel personally betrayed by his involvement with Monica because I felt like he let all of us down and gave the neocons a silver bullet.

I still believe that he was one of the sharpest and cleverest Presidents we ever had.

[physioex]

10. That was none of their business or our business....

Please there are a lot of dupes in this country who go for that con. I remember that time the rest of the world thought this country was crazy for impeaching a man for having consentual sex. The problem is not he gave the neocons a silver bullet, but the fact we live in a sexually repressed society. As far as I am concerned that is between him Hillary and Chelsea.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. He let you down only if you bought the NeoCon arguments. That was...

...none of our business then, and it is none of our business now.

[toddzilla]

3. centrist-right democrat..

i don't understand why he is held up to such high regard, he did plenty of damage to social services, labor etc.. while he was pres.

you could do worse, but you could do much, much better.

[Political_Junkie]

8. agreed, toddzilla

not a big Clinton fan myself. He did some good, but enough to make up for the bad.
Nice pic, by the way.

[Township75]

9. Agreed...

I don't understand why he is held so highly either. Sometimes I speculate that it is because the current administration is so repulsive that Clinton shines in comparison, and people look at it as the good-ole-days...but when not compared is what matters.

He was center to center-right, and if he so close to a repub, why is he so loved? I guess for some it is because he was a Dem.

[physioex]

4. I had my disliking of Clinton during the Monica bit..

But I never thought he should be impeached for it. My appreciation of Clinton has grown through the last 3.5 years. He was much more articulate, intelligent, and nicer. Not to metion the fact he didn't kill people pointlessly.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Me. And reading "Stupid White Men" made me like him less.

I'm sorry I voted for him. Should have just voted Green. :(

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. Well, that's odd. "Stupid White Men" didn't come out until Dec. 2002....

How did that change what his administrations accomplished for America between 1992-2000? Did it upset you that we had a very strong economy? Did it upset you that we were relatively conflict-free during Clinton's eight years in office? Did it upset you that unemployment got below 4% for the first time in quite some time? Did it upset you that we had an huge budget surplus that could have been used in so many good ways besides eventually lining the pockets of the super-wealthy?

And what has voting "Green" gotten you or anyone else that has voted that way? What did it get you in November 2000? Sometimes I think you "Greens" lose sight of the fact that democracies work for the greater good of the majority of its citizens.

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. It isn't odd at all

I thought he was more liberal than he turned out to be.

And the book upset me because it turned out he had sold us up-river on far more issues than I'd realized.

And voting Green has gotten the issues of election reform and democracy some of the attention they are due. You don't like the results of a lot of people voting for Greens, or Socialists or Natural Law, etc? Then get on your representatives' cases about ranked voting and we'll see about actually having a democracy that works for the greater good of the majority.

[leeroysphitz]

6. I loved him.

I couldn't have cared less about BS sex scandals. Wasn't even on my radar screen. I loved the fact that he TRIED. He tried to make a difference (even when I disagreed with him I love the fact that he was activist president who at least made the effort to buck the status quo). I loved the fact that for a very long time the country wasn't as focused on imperialism and the security state and was allowed to actually prosper and grow economically and socially. I miss those days.

[Stew225]

11. His part in the deregulation of broadcasting

was certainly a horrid move. The corporate media monster that we can no longer count on for checks and balances is a sad result of that.

The sexual tryst is nothing compared to what's going on now, though.

[leeroysphitz]

15. Your right

And I didn't like the Idea of expanding government wiretap authority even after Oklahoma. I didn't even support the health care initiative but I remember how excited I was to have a president willing to make REAL changes to it and not just take the easy way out and tweak the existing broken system (which is all we've had to this day thx to the fascist right).

[demosincebirth]

17. I agree with you 100%

He was loved by the black community. He knew what hard work was, not like GW, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. As far as his pecadillos at the White House, no big fucking deal to me, only to those who walk around "holier than thou."

[Anarcho-Socialist]

7. I know this thread is for people who didn't like him...

...but he's a saint compared with George W. Bonaparte.

*The longest peacetime economic expansion in history
*Low unemployment
*Budget surpluses and reduction of the national debt
*Brokering peace deals in Israel/Palestine (now wrecked by Bush/Sharon), Bosnia and in Northern Ireland
*Preventing Serbian genocide of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo
*Preventing the Al-Qaedia Millennium attacks

He also had his faults, but I can forgive him for those.

[taxidriver]

12. true.

all good reasons to like him.

[shamrock]

13. Waco

Me, When I heard his Rose Garden speech a few days after the Koresh compound burned and he said " It's not Janet Reno's fault that a bunch of religious fanatics decided to burn themselves up". I just couldn't handle that. It kind of reminds me of * attitude toward civilian (children) deaths in Iraq. I remember thinking ...what????I thought we had freedom of religion in this country, and besides they hadn't even done an investigation yet. I didn't like the tanks being used against civilians either. That was when I REALLY started getting scared of our government, whether it's Democrat or Republican.
I also felt that his affair with Monica was not our business, and he was 1000 times better than bush.

[PurityOfEssence]

14. He's too conservative, and and has too overriding an instinct to lie

He had heart, but his idea of taking the party to the center is based in a foolish assumption that these guys will "play fair" at any point. Truly, he was masterful in the tactical infighting, but his proclivity to deceive was used with equal masterfullness against him. In the end, he was a mixed bag, and the lasting taint of being veracity-challenged hurts the left.

It always struck me as strange how a hard-scrabble trench-warfare politician could be so naive and trusting for the forces of darkness that were always out to get him, and in the end, this peculiar optimism will always help to make him look better.

Of course, he's a saint compared to this lot.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlemingsGhost]

16. At first... sorta. Then it went horribly wrong:

NAFTA and Welfare "reform."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Oh. So that offset the booming economy, eight years of relative...

...peace, the balanced budget, and the huge budget surplus?

You and I have vastly different definitions for the phrase "horribly wrong".

[FlemingsGhost]

35. Give it some time for both to come to full fruition.

Yes, "horribly wrong" should sum it up nicely.

[2Design]

18. wasn't crazy about Bill but he didn't create body bags

I never voted for Bill but I didn't vote for Bush either. I voted Perot. I voted Al Gore.

Actually I thought the Monica crap was crap. Everyone knew when this guy was governor that he screwed around. so why was it such a big deal and why did the repubs have to waste all our money on show antics.

Now they are face with real war crimes and they want to put it in a closet. Stop the cameras.

Clinton didn't get a chance to take care of business with the crap the repubs threw. Clinton actually grew on me because they were on a witch hunt. He continued to do good elsewhere. He was a sex addict. He screw his family. He didn't screw us. When they pushed and pushed to find some way to get him to the point of pushing him into lying...

kinda of like Martha Stewart to me....they pushed and pushed....she didn't steal money.....like Bush and his family.....that is what gets me....

I would much rather have Clinton and his womanizing.....than bush and his torture and body bags and pretending they are christian and better than the rest of the world.....

[Stephanie]

20. Why trash Bill Clinton on DU?

What's the point of that?

*edit* I mean, isn't that what FR is for? And the site of that crazy L. Goldberg? Why solicit anti-Clinton remarks at DemocraticUnderground?

[taxidriver]

21. I wasn't trashing him. I wanted to see how other people felt about him.

just because this is a democratic site doesn't mean we have to tow the party line all the time. did you ask people why they were trashing any particular democratic candidate on DU during the primary wars? because that happened here, too.

[Stephanie]

24. You're only soliciting negative comments

You're only asking who here is NOT a fan. I'm just wondering why you would want to do that. What purpose does it serve? It's self-defeating - it only helps our enemies.

[taxidriver]

27. sorry. that wasn't my intent.

[Kanary]

23. "Trashing" is such an interesting word on DU.....

If a poster says there is something about a Democratic politician they don't like (with the exception of Lieberman or Zell, that is), someone wil *always say "Stop Trashing the Dems".

Yet, when a poster disagrees with another poster and says whatever nasty thing that pops into his/her head, and is called on it, the response is most likely to be "I wasn't 'trashing' you... you're too sensitive".

Nobody has said anything nasty about Clinton...... they've pointed out the things they weren't happy with. This is still, after all, the US of A.

I'm wondering if you rush to the support of posters who experience having *really* nasty things said to them?

"Trashing" is such an interesting word on DU.......

Kanary

[taxidriver]

28. thanks.

good to see that the forums are still open minded.

[progressivebydesign]

22. HUGE Clinton fan!

I miss having an intelligent, charming, diplomatic, HUMAN in office. He's the best ever.

[napi21]

25. I liked him then and still do!

A big part of a President is his ability to speak to people and get his point across. Did he concede some things to the opposition...YES, of course, but he also tied their .....um, tails to the ground when he forced the budget issue and made the Pubs look guilty to EVERYBODY!

You nor I are ever going to agree with any President, but I want one that I don't have to worry about what dumb thing is going to slip out of his mouth when he's talking to foreign leaders, making some new plan, or speaking on TV! I may not have agreed with Clinton about everything he said, but he NEVER sounded stupid! I never had to be ashamed that my Counrty had a dumba** for it's leader.

Every time I'm forced to listen to W on TV, I MISS Bill A LOT!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Actually, Clinton worked without notes and could do a 30-minute...

...no-notice speech standing on his head while in complete command of the English language. He always gave the impression that he was completely comfortable with anybody...from heads of state to very young children.

Under Clinton, this nation had a BALANCED budget.

Under Clinton, this nation had developed and maintained a budget SURPLUS.

Under Clinton, this country had the most prosperous eight years that we have EVER seen.

Under Clinton, this country had the RESPECT of the international community in every part of the world.

Under Clinton, this country did NOT go out of its way to attack any country or group of people WITHOUT just cause based on actual FACTUAL evidence.

But, yes, he screwed up in his personal life. The NeoCons used that opportunity to make their first attempt at a bloodless coup. They almost succeeded despite the fact that the ACTUAL language for impeachment was NEVER triggered. Gore would have been next based on whatever they could have fabricated and made stick. As it was, the NeoCons engineered the bloodless coup they had been seeking in December 2000, thereby gaining absolute control of the greatest country on earth.

And look what the NeoCons have done to us in less than four years.

[leeroysphitz]

31. beautifully stated...

[Catt03]

30. He was and is a brilliant politician

but a flawed man.

I thought he was one of the best presidents ever. If you could get past his character flaws, you had to really like the guy.

I also think the Welfare Reform bill and NAFTA are complex issues but have some good in them.

[Webster Green]

33. Not a huge fan....he was better than Bush 1 by a mile.....

He could have been sooo much better. His welfare reform was extremely cruel. The system punishes people and makes it almost impossible to get ahead.

I wish he would have stopped the ridiculous drug wars, but no president will have the balls to do that.

Clinton should have inhaled IMO.

I have no problem at all with a president getting blow jobs in the oval office. I think it should be required. JFK was a great president, and he was fucking Marilyn Monroe and eating acid.

[baldguy]

36. Clinton was a jerk.

He was a lying adulterer that brought embarrassment upon himself, his wife, his family, his party, his office and the entire country. At the very least he should have resigned and Hillary should have divorced him.

That being said: HE SHOULD *NOT* HAVE BEEN IMPEACHED. No way, now how. Never. Never. Never.

Whatever his personal failings are, they're just that - Personal Failings.

[markses]

37. I wasn't and I'm still not

n/t

[sandnsea]

38. Bigger fan now

I think he'll do alot more good now than he was able to as President. I hope he continues talking to the world about the fact that we're all here and we either have to learn to integrate cultures and countries, or just continue fighting ever-ending wars. He was more conservative as President than I would have preferred, but we lost to Gingerich's contract on america for a reason.

[wyldwolf]

39. the most gifted politician of our lifetime...

..who, despite strong political opposition and partisan attacks on his personal life, managed to give us the best economy we'll ever see.

Change in Mean Real Household Income, By Quintile,
from 1993 to 2000

quintile total change change per year

Poorest 20%... +16.9% +2.3%
Second 20%.... +15.4% +2.1%
Third 20%..... +15.2% +2.0%
Fourth 20%.... +15.0% +2.0%
Richest 20%... +18.9% +2.5%



Don't worry, taxidriver. At least once a week, someone starts a Clinton thread like this.

[Piperay]

40. Loved Clinton then, love him now but

I was sure pissed at him over Monica, that was so stupid. I remember at the time just wanting him to 'go' and let Gore take over. :-( There is just something though about the Big Dog though cause even being angry I can't help but love the guy. :loveya: :-)

[kentuck]

41. If he hadn't let his little head rule the big head...

He may have gone down as a great president. He may still, but I doubt it. He was a brilliant politician but how could he have not known that the Repubs were looking to set him up? And they succeeded. They tricked him into getting a blow job and lying to Hillary and the rest of the nation about it. However, it was a question that should have never been asked and he should have just refused to answer when it was asked. But that is the past....

My biggest complaint with Clinton was that he was taking our Party to the right when we should have been going to the left. I think that helped to build up the Repub Party and allowed them to win the House and Senate in 1994. I didn't like the way he handled NAFTA and GATT and the trade treaties and I didn't like the way he went along with the Repubs on welfare reform. He was at best, a centrist, but I think he was probably one of the most effective conservatives to ever hold the office. He was able to pass parts of the Reagan and Bush Sr agenda that they were unable to get thru COngress. They didn't call him "Slick" for nothing. I think he was probably more responsible than anyone,except the Supreme Court, including Ralph Nader, in putting George W Bush into power.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

42. I was and am a HUGE fan

Clinton was an excellent president. He took his job very seriously and was more qualified for the job than any president since Carter.

I did not agree with all of his policies, especially his support of the war on drugs.

He made all of the idiotic republicans look bad. That is why they stopped at nothing to get him.

LONG LIVE BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spanone]

43. I like Bill Clinton. Voted for him Twice.

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. I know...

...my voice doesn't really carry any weight, cuz of not being a U.S. citizen, but Clinton lost me, when he signed DoMA, and of course DADT.

[Que]

46. I was at first...

... but later, I could see he was not best for the country. Who is, at this date?