Does a Democracy Use Troops Against it's People ?

[stewert]

I keep hearing how we are training Iraqi troops to provide security in Iraq, now
the General in charge of this training says it will be a year before those troops will
be trained. They were supposed to be trained by December of this year.

Yet in America we have a law against using our troops against the people. This plan
to use Iraqi troops against the Iraqi people seems doomed to failure if you ask me.

And who is going to pay these troops, are we expected to pay the troops of another
country. Who is going to pay the police, and if they don't get paid will they even do
the job. I think not, and I doubt that the Iraq troops will fight the Iraqi people.

These are questions we never get answered, does anyone believe any of this crap
is going to work after we pull our troops out of Iraq ?

If they plan to install a Democracy in Iraq how can they use Iraqi troops against the
Iraqi people ?

I hear this reported everywhere, but nobody brings up the fact that in a Democracy it is
illegal to use troops against your own people. As far as I can tell not one journalist has
asked the Bush administration if they will have a law against using Iraqi troops against
the Iraqi people.

Has anyone heard anything along these lines, anywhere.

[FreakinDJ]

1. Do we actually have a law saying they can't use troops against us

I would be breathing a sigh of relief if indeed we actually do. I believe it is a moral question we have used against other countries before, but in light of the current mis-administration some thing that should be possibly be considered by Dem leaders

[progdonkey]

7. posse comitatus

It's called the policy of posse comitatus, which means basically that law enforcement is the job of the local sherrifs and police, and not the military. The role of the US military has always been simply to defend the borders from invasion, with the extension just during the 20th century of including the defense of our allies and even invading other countries.

[stewert]

10. That's it.......

I knew we had it but I had forgot what it was called.

Posse Comitatus Act

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use
of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution
or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation.
Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military
assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating
drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and
technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.)
while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search,
seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve
aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling
vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from
Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Do you mean an Iraqi "Kent State" situation or something more dire?

[bedtimeforbonzo]

12. Perhaps something like the 'Bonus Army' massacre of the 30s

that was fun.

[brokensymmetry]

3. A small quibble -

I hear this reported everywhere, but nobody brings up the fact that in a Democracy it is
illegal to use troops against your own people.

I don't think that's the case. You're probably thinking of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which (supposedly) bans the use of military troops in U.S. police activities.

[DarkPhenyx]

8. Except in instances of national emergency

I believe

[mrfrapp]

14. Not even then

I think even in the case of "national emergency" the military aren't allowed to become involved in domestic law enforcement. Although, there's been a lot of talk of repealing posse comitatus either partially or altogether in recent years.

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/11-16-02/discussion.cgi.69.shtml

http://www.stormingmedia.us/49/4943/A494314.html

http://www.cato.org/events/021016pf.html


IIRC, posse comitatus also prevents the military of other countries setting up base in the US.

[DarkPhenyx]

15. Happens every hurricane and earthquake.

They call out the Guard and Reserves everytime. Often they come out armed. And they are used in "policing" functions.

[Stew225]

4. The notion seems to be that all this is as easy....

as falling off a bicycle.

[Jmeyers130]

6. look at it this way...

Hussein used Iraqi troops and agents to hold power over the Iraqi people. He used Iraqis against Iraqis, much like American troops were sent in against black peaceful protestors and vietnam protestors (i.e. Kent State, where 3 or 4 were killed by national guardsmen)

[DarkPhenyx]

5. Yes, they do.

Particularly in situations where the local police force is not capable of handling the situation on it's own. Large scale riots and looting control during big natural disasters come to mind.

[progdonkey]

9. The National Guard is technically commanded by the governors...

so it's actually the governor who calls out the National Guard in the case of national emergencies, natural disasters, etc. Just another transfer of federal power to the states. Also, since the National Guard is a reserve force made up of state residents, there is less of an imposition by the distant, face-less Government.

[DarkPhenyx]

13. It is, however, a part of the military.

Therefor it is the military being used against American civilians. Also, were the situation bad enough to warrent Martial Law federal troops could also be used.

[Name removed]

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