I got an email today

[hyphenate]

from a friend who I never would have suspected of being a republican. Since our friendship was based in science fiction, specifically two TV shows of which we were/are both fond, it never really occurred to me that her politics were as foreign to me as any one of a dozen alien races might be on one of the shows we mutually watched.

However, my comment to her was simply that I had great hopes that a new administration will be installed in January. She wrote back with some great detail about why she can't support Kerry.

The thing that is difficult to overcome, however, is that she works at the Pentagon. She was working on September 11, 2001, and many of us fretted trying to find out if she was okay. As it turned out, she was on the other side of the building--a blessing for her. I quote her email here in part:



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Having worked with the military for more than 25 years, 10 of which I worked with a guy who was writing the history of the POWs in Vietnam, I sincerely hope you can understand why I don't want Kerry in office.

Bush isn't THAT bad.

If you read the news coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan (from the troops on the ground, not the media) you'd know that things are going much better over there than the media paints it to be. Schools are being built, power stations are up and running, water treatment plants are being renovated/repaired, and people are starting to live normal lives. None of this could happen if there was fighting everywhere, which is pretty much what you hear from everyone, including Fox news. However, no one is reporting on the good news out there. No one's talking about the toy drives the soldiers families are holding so their sons/daughters/husbands/wives can pass out frizbees and soccor balls and baseball gloves, etc. to Iraqi children. No one's talking about the people who are now living better than they ever did under the old regime. No one's talking about organizations like Spirit of America, who recently sent $200,000 worth of television studio/broadcast equipment to re-equip and refurbish five television stations in Iraq. No one ever hears about that stuff. All we hear about is Abu Grayib and prisoner abuse and soldiers dying and civilians dying and more soldiers dying. Remember that wedding party that got bombed recently? Al Jazeera showed video of the celebration, and the dead; turns out they showed footage from some place about 150 km from the area that was bombed. Recon personnel found weapons caches, equipment for creating false ids, and lots of bunks and supplies more suited for running foreign fighters across the Syrian border. Did you hear that in the news? Nope.
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It is good to know that some good things are happening, but to me, and to many, many other people, the good things are overwhelmed by the bad to the point of total displacement. We are in deep shit here in this country--no new jobs, the economy is still in the sewer, and there is no hope for a greater part of our country. These traitors sit in the big house (it should be a different "big house!) and continue to fuck us over without a conscience. I honestly can't understand how intelligent people can condone what is going on in our country by sticking up for the traitors who are ignoring the country they're supposed to be representing. I wrote back to my friend, and told her regardless of what good might have been accomplished, there is no way I can support a traitor like GWB. I would rather die, which I just might, than support his evil and the evil he represents ever.

[Catch22Dem]

1. Bush isn't THAT bad

Man, that's a ringing endorsement, isn't it? Sorry, but he's that bad and worse.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

9. I was at work today, and while I try not to discuss politics (or religion

for that matter), somehow I found myself talking about both.

I was having a discussing with our office manager, a woman who happens to be a Republican but isn't all in my face or anything (thank G-d), about the constant "state-of-alert" we're in and the 2:00 press conference Ashcroft called. We were talking mainly about how we thought people are going to be fatigued (if we aren't already) and if this will happen so often, when the shit does hit the fan again, it will be a "cry wolf" situation.

I asked the office manager if she had heard about the lawyer in OR who had been detained for ties to the Madrid bombings, but who, as it turned out, was not at all connected. Unbelieveably, she hadn't heard about this (she must have her head up her ass).

Just as we're talking about this, there is this guy in the office, another Republican, who happens to be a real freeper. He's kinda nosy, and "just so happened" to pop over to where we were standing. He starts talking about how he doesn't understand how anyone would want to be associated with being a Muslim. My mouth just dropped.

I said to this village idiot, "Just because one is a Muslim, this does not mean he or she is a terrorist. You know, this country is made up of all kinds of people, Bill. That's why we're called a melting pot. You might want to open your mind."

He then mumbled something about Muslims flying planes into buildings. I said, "You don't think I was shocked and horrified when that happened? Again, not all Muslims are terrorists." Thankfully, my boss came over to ask me about something and I was able to walk away (which I was trying to do anyway). I wanted to punch his lights out. What a moron!! Grrrrrr.......

[Streetdoc270]

17. Just point out Oak. Bombing...

And mumble something about all white christian males being terrorists...

[jeff30997]

2. Just face it,man...

She's a Klingon !!!:)

[Vickers]

3. Works at the Pentagon? Yeah, no bias there.

:eyes:

[masshole]

4. why are we even IN Iraq?

Does that matter to her? Or being a good DD employee does it even matter?
I mean as long as we got a war somewhere... right?

[daa]

5. I am sorry

but you are right - totally. The prison abuse issue is wide spread. As for the message from the ground just go to Col. Hackworth's site and see what theya re saying on the ground. 44,000 extended beyond their contract- no health care for their families while they re gone. Look at the news today about Halliburton billing for shipments with empty trucks.

GWB is the most corrupt, worst president in the history of this country. I am appalled and disgusted. the lies continue and the asshole doesn't get it - he is out of touch.

So don't worry, you are right.

[Eric J in MN]

6. We don't hear about plenty of good things in Iraq. We also

We don't hear about plenty of good things in Iraq. We also don't hear about plenty of rapes and murders.

The torture stories which were printed are a fraction of the torture stories which took place.

[Skittles]

7. send her this

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/david_sarasohn/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1085572918161311.xml

[NMDemDist2]

12. can anyone remember the gal who worked in the Pentagon

and was posted to help the DIA ?? She retired and starting blowing the whistle on how they "worked over" the intelligence?

Kerensky ?? something like that... anybody remember her name? Tariq Ali mentioned her in a couple speeches

[hedda_foil]

13. Kwiatkowsky. Karen Kwiatkowsky.

I believe she retired with the rank of Colonel. She writes a biweekly web column.

[NMDemDist2]

21. thanks that's the one--- If the poster's friend read some of the

articles from Col. K he/she might be a little less enthralled by the suits on the East side of the Pentagon

[NMDemDist2]

8. gee? did they get the water and electricity going again? I heard

the $$$ for those improvements got spent on empty truck delivery fees. This person is a troll and a few frisbees and soccer balls don't make amends for invading a sovereign nation who was no threat to us instead of cleaning up Afghanistan (where the real terrorists lived) or stopping the wholesale genocide of Christians in Africa if we really were a "freedom loving Christian nation" as Bushit professes so often

just a thought

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbob]

15. Actually, wasn't there a big AP story

...about the footage showing people celebrating at the wedding (including a well know Iraqi singer) who later turned up dead after the attack?

Or is the Associated Press just another mouthpiece for Al Jazeera?

Anyone have the link?

[pinto]

11. sorry hyphenate, I didn't get beyond "Bush isn't THAT bad"....the phrase

always, to me, means the opposite, especially in caps....

Sushi's not that bad (it fucking sucks)

So I don't buy her argument, even unknown as it will remain to me.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

14. Bush isn't THAT bad

reminds me of a person I know only on line who is a HUGE bush supporter and also works in the Pentagon, though in what capacity I don't know and she might be full of shit about that anyway.

When I asked her to lay out her reasons to support bush one of them was that he was "at least willing to make an attempt at diplomacy".

Uh. Yeah. At least WILLING to make an ATTEMPT. Yeah, that's what I want out of a president. And his supporters call him STRONG?

Like someone said at the beginning of this thread, what a RINGING endorsement. Not.

[alcuno]

16. Honestly. How many Americans really care if the power is on in Baghdad?

I am so sick of hearing about the schools and the hospitals. Are we supposed to believe that the US was engaged in some sort of outreach humanitarian endeavor? Please spare me that propaganda feed. We're just running around Iraq helping and liberating people and nobody likes us. Boo hoo......

And as to our bad press for invading another country. Like we couldn't have anticipated that. It's just more delusional Pentagon planning. I'm outraged by their outrage. Idiots.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

18. Man you said it alcuno

thanks for articulating what I've had a hard time saying about the power being on crap.

I keep thinking to myself, "hell's BELLS, if we are REALLY doing all this fantastic shit over there, the media WOULD be covering it, at least nominally" but I hear NOTHING.

[vetwife]

19. Maybe your friend but Koolaid drinker for sure

It has come down to this my cyberfriend...Lines have been drawn in the sand...They drew them witht the (with us or against us) speech.
I can't tell you what to do but I would sever a relationship with person who sang his praises as I would know that person was not speaking for the good of America. I too am tired of hearing about better healthcare in Iraq than America. Charity begins at home and so does democracy.

[Sparkly]

20. Challenge her to watch Al Gore's speech,

from start to finish.

How does rebuilding stuff we bombed make all of this okay? How does Kerry and McCain's work on POW/MIA's and normalizing relations with Vietnam compare to what is happening TODAY?! It seems to me some people come up with excuses for voting for the Chimp. There must be another reason they won't even admit to themselves. (Hell if I know what it is!)

[dpibel]

22. Wow! Thanks for passing this along!

I mean, I understand how much you dislike Bush and all, but it sure is comforting to know from such a reliable source as a person who even works in the Pentagon that everything is simply jackaloo in Iraq, if only that lying liberal media would tell us the truth.

I'm sure glad those sophisticated fakers at al Jazeera just sophisticatedly faked that video of a wedding, and dead people, and all that stuff. Yessiree!

In fact, now you mention it, since I have it on such good authority that everything's coming up roses in Iraq, I believe I'll probably just forget about complaining.

Sure is weird that they can't convince the media to cover all these good stories, though, isn't it? I mean, ya got all these media people who have spent three years telling us that George is strong and wise and resolute and pretty darned cool, and talking about how necessary it was to invade Iraq. And now they won't report on the overwhelmingly large number of good things? I mean, jeez! $200,000 worth of TV equipment!!! Why, that would keep the war going for, like--what?--1.2 minutes!! That's the kind of generosity people should be hearing about.

Again. Thanks!

[lapauvre]

23. Thank you so much for posting this

And I thank your friend as well.

I am too tired to respond tonight, but I do think this is the crux of the problem.

In a war torn country, what is so strange about there being a stash of weapons?

In a country where crossing borders is dangerous, what is so strange about making up ID's. We have thousands of people, citizens and non citizens doing that in the USA every day.

Yes. WE do hear about our dead, so that we can feel the weight of our loss. OUR loss. Our loss, our grief. But we haven't heard the number of Iraqis who are dead because we went there.

The prisoner abuse. Yes, a big deal. A very big deal. Why? Because we are Americans, and should be held to the highest standards of moral and humane behavior in the world. We claim it. We are required to live up to it. Or we are liars, hypocrites, and do not have the right to tell the world that we are the best.

Tomorrow I will read more and try to respond better.