Did that Wendy speaking for Kerry on Crossfire just make fun of MoveOn....

[madfloridian]

and Gore. She said he was reacting to the MoveOn crowd. Well, folks, that is me, and millions of others.

I do hope we do not have to make a choice here over activism and playing too nice.

Gore's speech was magnificent, and how dare she put him down!!!!

[sangh0]

1. How is that making fun of MoveOn?

If anything, I see it as a comment on MoveOn's influence.

[madfloridian]

2. Whatever!

She did not say it in a complimentary way, trust me.

[sangh0]

3. Is that supposed to be an answer?

Seriously! Where's the put down?

[madfloridian]

4. Did you watch the show?

?

[sangh0]

6. If I watched the show

I wouldn't be asking questions. I'd be either arguing with you or agreeing with you.

[madfloridian]

8. If you are sincere, then I would say she said it rather snidely.

It was not a compliment, not the way it was delivered.

[sangh0]

25. And if you are sincere

then I would say that that was both uncalled for, and counter-productive

[madfloridian]

29. Thank you.

I would like to see the transcript, but the intonations of voice and the facial expressions can not be conveyed through a transcript.

[sangh0]

41. A bit premature

I haven't confirmed that what you said is true. My statement was conditional.

[madfloridian]

48. If I am wrong, I will apologize.

However, I don't think I am wrong. I know others here at DU were watching Crossfire. I think some of them should weigh in. I notice no one has really called me on it.

I will have to be PROVEN to be completely wrong. Just one person's opinion will not prove me wrong.

It really bothered you that I said thanks, didn't it.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

9. Please list the things you disagree with them on.

I wonder what they are? They do a lot of good mostly. No group is perfect, but bashing them with all the money they collect is not good.

Did you see their latest ad comparing Kerry and Bush's military service?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rumguy]

31. uhh..moveon is funded in a great part from small donations

And they support ALL the constitution. I have no idea where you get the idea they only support part of it.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eloriel]

43. Oh, goodie, a Libertarian

of the rightwingish variety.

And an agry, hostile and bitter one to boot (but then I repeat myself, don't I?).

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. I was just gonna guess that this was a Libertarian. :^)

[madfloridian]

45. Chuckle

:evilgrin:

[KoKo]

54. A Libertarian. I'm glad you have a choice in the schools your kids can

attend, though. It's not that easy for many out there. :-(

[greatauntoftriplets]

55. Ahem, the "dearly" departed.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=144942

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MAlibdem]

46. you can't change the school your kid goes to

or most people can't. Most can't afford private schooling. And most affordable private schooling is religious...

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KharmaTrain]

51. Where Were You In 1998 When MoveOn Was Formed?

I was there writing checks to them then and doing the same now. Wes Boyd should be toasted as a true American patriot for starting the site and turning it into the political power it is today.

Sounds like we got ourselves a lurker here. Libertarian? My ass...more like someone out there to stir up the shit based on the lies passed on by RoveCo.

I am always amused at how threatened the Reich wing is by MoveOn...and it's almost a knee-jerk reaction here that every time I get pissed off, we write another check! Whatsamatter, Reich wing groups like AEI or the dozens of PACs and other "think tanks" that have incubated the mess we're in today is only for those who want to be selfish fascists and those on the other side should not do the same organizing? OFW!

MoveOn, above any other website/organization, has been the strongest voice of reason through the worst abuses on our civil liberties EVER. Yes, they were bad before MoveOn formed, but look at how bad they've become and another assault is just a Bunnypants "mandate" away.

Now I'd love to discuss the various interest groups like Handgun, NRA, NARAL, Christian Coalition...there are many on right and left that I feel have far too much influence in their respective parties, but MoveOn is the antithesis of that.

I strongly suggest you look into the organization. Yes, it has its warts, as all do, but it's foundation is one of the most altruistic and even liberatarian you'll find.

Cheers!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. "Then why do they support the elitist?"

Could you please explain who you mean by "the elist"? Are you implying that is Kerry?


"Not one of them know what it is like to earn 25,000 a year and have to pay almost half of that in taxes."

Again, just who is "them"? Members of MoveOn? Politicians? Please specify.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

34. I can only say "Huh?" to that.

I am very confused at what you say.
:shrug:

[madfloridian]

35. Dupe....my posts are posting twice. Sorry.

I am very confused at what you say.
:shrug:

[sendero]

50. People making 25K

a year are not paying half of it in taxes. Try, just try to prove otherwise.

If Republicans had their way, then people making 25K would be paying half.

[madfloridian]

10. Dupe...posted twice.

Only clicked once, don't know what happened.

[w13rd0]

14. Well, since the poster "totally disagrees"...

...then we can pretty much infer their positions. That would be: pro-AWOL chickenhawk, budget busting, lie telling, borrow and spend, constitution and civil liberty shredding...you know the type...

Isn't it great? Al Gore's speech was like a massive flashlight passed across the nations political scene, and all the "cockroaches" (Republican, and a few Democrats as well) go scurring about in plain view, shitting all over themselves and everything around them...

He called it, he backed it up, he dared say what the "politicians" can't afford to. Bush and his clan are a bunch of thug-minded lying war criminals.

[Supormom]

Welcome to DU, kcpatriot

:hi:

[w13rd0]

7. Well, MoveOn is airing attack ads on Bush...

...so Kerry doesn't have to. This gives Kerry a chance to air positive ads "to let the people get to know him". Kerry shouldn't say a WORD about Gore's speech. It was absolutely on target, and commenting or criticizing it would be drifting off target. Just don't say anything at all, or at most, "Al Gore, as a former two-term vice president, the winner of the 2000 election, and the individual that wrote most of the recommendations concerning airline safety now being adhered to, has every right to speak out regarding his opinion on the competence and accountability, or lack thereof, of this administration."

I even rendered the statement in "Kerry-speak"...

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bandit]

15. Well.........

Let's hear it.

[oasis]

12. Right. Let Kerry be known to voters as a positive candidate.

[MajorFlaw]

20. If Al Gore gave the same strong speech 4 years ago,

he would be running for re election today. Every prominent Dem should be attacking shrub on a daily basis. Byrd, Kennedy, Clinton (Bill), Rangel, Biden, and many others are stepping up and doing the right thing. Gore is doing his part and should be respected for doing so. If everyone with a conscience speaks out, the village of Crawford will be getting its idiot back in January.

[Cheswick2.0]

62. He did give those speeches in 2000, were you out of the country?

Maybe you bought too much of the media spin from the right and the bitter kool kids left?

[MajorFlaw]

67. Nope, I paid close attention. What I saw in Gore (in 2000) was a

candidate who was trying too hard to distance himself from Clinton and from liberal Dem's. His preachy style reminded me of Carter's "malaise" speech, which blamed his own bad poll numbers on America's crisis of confidence.

I couldn't believe that Gore didn't just cut loose and skewer shrub, as he did yesterday. The suggestion here is that Gore can now speak his mind because he is not a candidate. I would suggest that being a candidate for office is the best time to speak your mind.

I still believe that if Gore had opened up and shown us more progressive passion, he would have won. Of course I voted for him anyway, but I don't want to be a noble loser again. I'm not criticizing Al Gore, I'm suggesting that he chose the wrong tone for his campaign, and I'm hoping that Kerry learned something from it.

[SemperEadem]

75. I don't agree

I believe if Gore did anything other than what he did, it would have been far worse on all Dems and liberal-minded politicians than it has been.

I've always felt that it was a mistake for him to distance himself from Clinton. I would have preferred to see more solidarity between the outgoing and incoming presidents, but at that time, the "anti anything Clinton" ball was rolling down the hill, gaining momentum and was unstoppable.

In the 2 1/2 yrs leading up to the selection, the right wing siezed the moment and the course of discussion by preying on the fears of weak-minded 'puritans', telling them that anything related to Clinton was going to send this country into a godless secular humanistic spin.
The neocons were able to convince the sheople that to support anyone Clinton endorsed would be akin to losing your soul to eternal damnation. Nothing Gore could have said or done would have changed the stranglehold the rw media had on people's fears. He would have been accused of whining and being hysterical if he made an issue.

Gore did, at the time, the most gracious thing he could do, knowing what he, and all of us, knew at the time. Back in late 2000, no one believed that Bush would, in 3 years, bring us to the brink of catastrophe. I believe that's why more Americans weren't in the street protesting the recount and our usurpation by the Supreme Court in the decision aspect of the election process.

[madfloridian]

13. It does not bother anyone that she was dismissive of Gore's speech?

What is going on here, folks? What is going on? He speaks out eloquently, and a Kerry spokesman dismisses what he says as overreacting to the audience.

I think I am losing my mind here. What is going on?

[ibegurpard]

16. I didn't see it so I can't say

But if you are correct in your assessment, then no, you are not alone in your outrage.

[madfloridian]

19. I would like to see the transcript if there is one.

Yes, I thought it was dismissive. The GOP strategist called it a Dean moment for Gore, and she sort of nodded her head in agreement.

I will just back off, but I can NOT have been the only one who saw this show. My husband agrees with me, and he nearly came out of his chair.

[juajen]

37. You are absolutely correct

Gore's speech certainly should not have been denigrated by a Kerry spokesperson. I am also outraged. GO, GORE. Telling it like it is, is what patriotism is all about. He is in a perfect spot, now, to take on anybody he likes.

[Cheswick2.0]

63. sounds like she is just another gutless political hack

She does nothing to help my opinion of Kerry. I hope he has stronger and smarter people on his team.

[jpgray]

17. Whoa whoa whoa--what exactly was said?

Was it just inflection? Because the audience did fire him up, and describing them as the 'MoveOn' crowd I don't think is inappropriate--I consider myself part of that crowd.

edit: I haven't seen it, so I'm getting a very vague picture here.

[w13rd0]

18. You know the answer to that...

...it's a "campaign strategy", makes Kerry look more "centrist", more "electable"...blah blah blah.

Whatever, he's got my vote, whee, whatever...the milquetoast won, us "angry Bush haters" should just quit crying in our teacups and get with the DLC-approved program.

But no, Kerry's got my vote, Bush is THAT MUCH of a bastard. But dammit, *I* have the power, and I intend to crush the cockroaches underfoot.

[oasis]

53. Kerry's people are aware of the importance of maintaining composure.

That's been the tried and true method of winning over American voters who are in the middle.

Edit: title line

[Upfront]

21. Vote For Gore

I would vote for Gore over kerry any time.

[madfloridian]

30. Hi, Upfront.

Long time no see.

[Shakespeare]

22. If you're going to start a thread & rant, at LEAST describe what...

...you're ranting about! Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, I get tired of coming in here and seeing these obtuse threads bitching to high heaven about something, but the posters won't take an extra ten seconds to tell those of us not sitting in front of a TV set just what was said!

:argh:

[madfloridian]

26. I thought I said it in my post above.

The two GOP folks were criticizing Gore for criticizing Bush. It went to this Wendy, and she said something like this...paraphrasing....well, you know, he was probably just reacting (not sure of the word) to the crowd. Implication was, though I was so angry by then I forgot exact words.....Gore got carried away because of the MoveOn crowd. Of which I consider myself a part. She said something about the crowd being excited, or something like that.

The GOP guy said it was Dean moment for Gore, and she appeared to nod in agreement. She did NOT call him on that statement.

Sorry, you will have to get the transcript. That is the best I can do. My husband agrees with this post and says this is about what she said.

[w13rd0]

32. Hell, the "Dean moment" wasn't really a "Dean moment"...

...I'm so fed up with these jackals.

[NYCGirl]

38. Madfloridian, I have it TiVoed,

and I won't be able to watch it until late this evening...hopefully, I can find this thread again and report what my impressions were on the statement.

[jpgray]

40. If you can, get an exact quote

I still only have a vague idea of what this is about. If they were ripping Gore for being animated, then I can see saying he was drawing on the energy of the room. But if she dismissed MoveOn, or mocked Gore, that's a pretty big deal.

[madfloridian]

42. Hi, if you can I would love it. I don't want to overreact.

It was just as much the intonations and facial expressions which would not show up in a transcript. If hubby and I are wrong, we will officially apologize.

[NYCGirl]

56. Here's what I transcribed:

Carlson asks Wendy what she thought of the Gore speech (words to that effect) — she responds:

WENDY: Yesterday, Vice President Gore was expressing the frustration of all of those folks in the MoveOn audience who just don't know what to do with themselves.

TUCKER: Should he do it at home locked in the bathroom?

They both laugh somewhat uncomfortably.

WENDY: No.

Then Paul Begala compliments the speech, Wendy nods and agrees.


Personally, I don't really know what to make of it. She wasn't exactly snarky, but she wasn't glowing, either. It was something like "damning with faint praise," IMO.

[FlaGranny]

57. You know,

this is the perfect illustration of why Kerry CANNOT say this stuff and why I said yesterday that Gore may have just given up his chances of ever running for president. Kerry and his spokespersons cannot come right out and say they agree 100% with everythign Gore said. What Gore did was the most patriotic thing I've ever personally seen in my lifetime. He gave up his political future (probably)to tell the truth. He will be vilified for it. Kerry should stay out of it and he will then profit from it.

[madfloridian]

60. I fear the future if we are afraid for a future president to speak out.

If things are so bad that Kerry can not say Gore is right, then we are in real trouble here.

[FlaGranny]

66. We are in real trouble, no doubt of it.

The media is NOT on our side. If Kerry said even 1/4 of what Gore said, he would be in real trouble. But the more this stuff gets out into the mainstream and the rest of the country realizes it is true, Kerry will be able to say more and maybe then he can say what he really thinks - out loud. Let's hope so.

[seaglass]

68. That's why you will never understand why Dean lost.

It's sad really.

[madfloridian]

74. I know why Dean lost.

I know why. It does not really bother me, as he is going to continue to be a powerful voice. What really gets me is why our Democrats would run from Gore's speech instead of embracing it.

You are right....I do not understand that at all. What are they afraid of?

Gore gives a speech, Dean gets a political column syndicated to 700 papers. They must be marginalized. I do not understand, you are right about that.

I do know why Dean lost.

[madfloridian]

58. Those "who do not know what to do with themselves" is making fun, I think.

Didn't Wendy also nod and agree when the GOP guy said it was Dean moment for Gore? I appreciate your transcribing this so much. Could you check for if Wendy nodded when he said that?

Have you noticed the talking points from the RNC now? Discredit Gore, compare him with Dean, discuss their mental stability.

Then go out and buy David Brock's the Republican Noise Machine.

Thanks, NYC.

[NYCGirl]

59. I'll have to check that again...I think it's still on the TiVo... (eom)

NT

[madfloridian]

61. Thanks.

:hi:

[NYCGirl]

76. I checked...

and it was hard to tell, there was a murmur, but I couldn't make it out. The camera wasn't on that side of the table. It only came back when Begala said, "Let's get back to Senator Kerry."

[otohara]

78. "who just don't know what to do with themselves." Them VOTERS??

snarky remark about 2 million voters...2 million committed Kerry voters.

[madfloridian]

23. Credit to Begala. He gave Gore kudos when the others did not.

So one person on the show took up for him.

[Frances]

24. I did not see Wendy, but I did see part of Gore's speech

to Move On, along with my husband. Both of us voted for Gore in 2000. I passed out flyers and buttons for Gore. I agree with everything Gore said in the speech to Move On. But I also agreedwith my husband when he said that Gore sounded like a preacher.

I could not help contrasting Gore with Clinton. Clinton could have said the exact same words that Gore did and made it sound as though he was just having a conversation with you.

So, I agree with Gore, but I think he does not have as effective a delivery style as I would like.

[madfloridian]

27. I know, Gore was not very nice in that speech. I am so glad he was not.

Right now, if the Democrats keep attacking any of their own who speak out.....then hubby and I will continue to question the motives of our own party.

[Q]

52. You could probably...

...trace this back to the DLC. If you read their newsletters...they're as bad as the right wing media in their attacks on Dean or anyone else trying to run a 'populist' campaign or won't take THEIR advice. They're also really nasty to anyone...including Gore...who speaks with ANY kind of passion or even LOOKS like a liberal.

- The DLC hates liberals and populism as much as the RW Republicans. They helped destroy Dean...using the very same tactics and talking points as the GOPMedia. Before that they did the same to Gore. Keep and eye on them as the campaign progresses and you'll see what I mean. They'll attack any other Dem that's not DLC Approved.

[Cheswick2.0]

64. I loved his delivery

But then some of my favorite democrats have sounded like Preachers.

[madfloridian]

65. Yeah, I know what you mean.

:cry:

[sandnsea]

69. That's just bullshit

Here's what was posted above. If you take this as a personal attack, wow. Unbelievable. She says Gore was expressing your frustration and you interpret it as a slam. Your posts just keep getting more bizarre every day, they really do.

WENDY: Yesterday, Vice President Gore was expressing the frustration of all of those folks in the MoveOn audience who just don't know what to do with themselves.

TUCKER: Should he do it at home locked in the bathroom?

They both laugh somewhat uncomfortably.

WENDY: No.

[madfloridian]

70. I am still waiting for an answer about her response to the GOP guy.

When he called it a Dean moment for Gore. I watched it and my impression was that she agreed with him by not disagreeing. Kind of a nod.

What do you think she means about all the MoveOn folks who do not know what to do with themselves? I don't exactly take that as compliment.

Couldn't she have spoken out and said it was a good speech? How hard would that have been.

[sandnsea]

72. You don't know what to do with yourselves

You haven't made up your minds yet. Kucinch, Nader, write-ins, who knows what you guys are going to do.

[madfloridian]

73. Have you read what I have written many times? I will vote for Kerry.

I do NOT attack Kerry, and I do not want his spokespersons marginalizing folks like Gore and Dean who dare to speak out.

[madfloridian]

71. You said:"Your posts just keep getting more bizarre every day."

I do not agree with you on that. You may not agree with my posts, but I think characterizing them as bizarre is a little much.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

77. How is that making fun of MoveOn? In what way is it a put-down?

:wtf:



I don't agree with your characterizations at all.