Green card & Draft

[Fear]

Hello,

I was curious about the following, people receiving green-cards for work or through the DV program. Can they be drafted as well?, I assume you can only be drafted when you are an American citizen?, or are there special rules for people holding a Green-card?

Thanks!

[DS1]

1. Good question, I was wondering that too

although I've already done 4 yrs.

[ithacan]

2. All legal residents are subject to a draft,

so anyone with a green card will be included in the draft.

Illegal residents are also subject to the draft, and can be deported once they've finished their tour of duty.


WHO MUST REGISTER

Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.

NON-CITIZENS
Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service. For a more detailed list of which non- citizens must register, see Who Must Register - Chart .

DUAL NATIONALS
Dual nationals of the U.S. and another country are required to register, regardless of where they live, because they are U.S. nationals.
http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm

[Fear]

6. Thank you very much for this information......another question,

since it says in there " who are 18 through 25 " , well, lucky for me I'm older then THAT *damn where did these good 'ol days go*, but is it possible for them to change the age?, meaning, screw it up?

[Dems Will Win]

7. Actually, a secret 6-page proposal to up the age to 34 was just revealed

Through the FOI Act! The draft would then also include women, up to age 34.

Also the Skills DRAFT will be authorized if Bush is not redefeated.

Then a SSS MASSIVE DATABASE of everyone with critical skills under 34 will be kept and you will be forced to comply with the info-gathering.

Liguists, nurses, engineers and especially computer programmers are needed right now by DoD.

They need the programmers to create the tracking and security systems for the Airborne 2Mw Laser that will be operational in the next term.

Expect the first DRAFT Lottery according to the 2004 Performance Plan by June 15, 2005. The Medical and Skills DRAFTS will be automatically authorized by then as well.

The first CO cases would be ready to be heard by July of 2005.

THEY ARE READYING THE WHOLE SSS THIS SUMMER AND FALL, SPENDING $28 MILLION TO GEAR UP THE DRAFT.

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

BTW, KERRY HAS A NO-DRAFT PLAN, SO WOULD YOU TELL EVERYONE TO VOTE FOR HIM? THANK YOU.

[Must_B_Free]

12. 2 more months to 34

fingers crossed

[Must_B_Free]

13. 2 more months to 34

fingers crossed

[Fear]

16. ONE MORE QUESTION - and ofcourse telling many people to vote for Kerry,

but well........that just makes more sense then voting for Bush anywayz, for more reasons ofcourse ;)

Ok, ONE more when a person would receive a green card, can they say, thank you, 2 months later, give it back or something like that?
What are the rules regarding Green Cards? - can you get rid of one?

I still find it odd that people from other countries can be drafted, especially since their nationality wouldn't change to an american when getting a green card / visa.

[daveskilt]

18. It is pretty tricky getting one these days - giving it up is easy

commit a felony, dont renew it, leave the country for more than 6 months, make anti american statements (like * sucks) and they can take it away.

[Fear]

19. ok, that should be easy, guess it's hard getting one later on again eh?

can't say, sorry, I'm putting it in the freezer for a coupla months :S

[ithacan]

8. yes they can change the age

all of this can be changed by the President and/or by Congress, so if they get desperate they certainly could extend the draft to include older people, women, etc.

And as the post above indicates, it looks like that is exactly the direction they are headed in.

That said, though, I think first priority will always be 18-26. It seems the older ages would focus on people with specific skills, in medicine, computers, languages, etc.

[elf]

9. How sure are you

that the draft will come?? It's very important for us to hear from
Americans what they think. We don't have enough experience or knowledge to know what's going on.


Our Green Card will be permanent in September, our daughter is 20 years old.

[ithacan]

10. if Bush is put back in power in November,

I'd say it's pretty sure thing, though I think they'd stick to 18 to 26 year old guys at first, I can't see them forcing women to serve (the new guidelines allow women to volunteer for the one year training).

[Dems Will Win]

11. Depends...

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!

Read this, hidden bombshells within this doc reveal that DRAFT will be ready by June 15, 2005, for the first time in 31 years, down to the Medical Draft (HCPDS) and the Alternative Service (96 days after March 31, 2005--see Strategic Objective 1.2)

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

Here's my DRAFT TIMELINE:

Greetings!

The following timeline gives you the main events indicating the resumption of the military draft. According to this, the draft will be needed to maintain troop levels in Iraq past March 2005, barring double deployments. $28 million is allocated by the Selective Service to reduce activation time from the current 8 months to 75 days by March 31, 2005. If Bush asks Congress on April 1, 2005 to reinstate conscription, the first Draft Lottery could be June 15, 2005. A Medical Draft and a new Special Skills Draft would also be activated automatically.

Impending Draft Timeline

1994 – The Grand Chessboard by Zbignew Brzezinski compares Central Asia to a chess game with Russia and China--which must eventually result in an American “win”. Control of the world’s oil supply and dominance in the 21st Century is at stake, as cheap oil ends in the 2010s. Noting that the Central Asian Republics are infinitely more important than any other region--save the Mideast--because “an enormous concentration of natural gas and oil reserves is located in the region, in addition to important minerals, including gold… Any successful American policy must focus on Eurasia as a whole and be guided by a Geostrategic design…That puts a premium on maneuver and manipulation in order to prevent the emergence of a hostile coalition that could eventually seek to challenge America's primacy…"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465027261/102-5321285-9753763?v=glance

1990s – “Project For A New American Century” and other right-wing organizations develop strategy for a “uni-polar world” ruled by the United States with many US bases in the Mideast and Central Asia. Invading Iraq and controlling the world’s oil supply becomes the Neo-Con manifesto.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html
http://www.presentdanger.org/pdf/frontier/1031neocon.pdf
Article by Will Pitt: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

September 11, 2001 – The 9-11 Attack. A “War on Terror” is begun by Bush with the agreement of the Congress. In the mission of the Selective Service, it is stated that the Volunteer Army is only intended for peacetime. In case of war, the nation may turn to the Selective Service. That is why it must always be kept as an option, even if dormant.

January 8, 2002 - On January 8, 2002, President Bush signed the No Child Left Behind Act, supposedly to provide accountability education policies. Yet hidden within the 670-page piece of legislation is Section 9528: “…each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide, on a request made by military recruiters or an institution of higher education, access to secondary school students names, addresses, and telephone listings.” All schools must comply with this unfunded mandate or they lose their federal funding. This amounts to legislated blackmail for student names. The act also says: “A secondary school student or the parent of the student may request that the student’s name, address, and telephone listing … not be released without prior written parental consent, and the local educational agency or private school shall notify parents of the option to make a request and shall comply with any request.”
http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/index.html

Early 2003 - Iraq War, 250,000 out of 480,000 active-duty troops deployed, conquer Iraq within a few weeks. Yet the U.S. has no plan ready for reconstruction or democracy and Iraqis, happy at liberation from Saddam, grow sour at the slow pace, the continued lack of electricity and fuel and the isolated civil control of the CPA. Garner soon replaced by Bremer who is no better at speeding up Reconstruction, and the resistance grows with disaffected Iraqis, old regrouped Baathists and new foreign fighters. Except for the British, substantial foreign troops are impossible, given Bush’s desire to keep total control of Iraq. The lack of diplomacy, planning and incompetence adds years to the time high US troop levels will be needed to maintain control of Iraq and rebuild and exploit its oilfields.

Summer 2003 – Philadelphia Draft Board members “unexpectedly” told to recruit new members for Board vacancies during Summer training. (from Nov. 3 Salon article)
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/03/draft/index_np.html

July 25, 2003 – World Net Daily article on plans for the medical draft (HCPDS). System could draft up to 80,000 doctors, nurses and specialists, men and women.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33754

September 3, 2003 – The Congressional Budget Office warns that “the Army lacks sufficient active-duty forces to maintain its current level of nearly 150,000 troops in Iraq beyond next spring (march 2004). "The Army does not have enough active-duty component forces to simultaneously maintain the occupation at its current size, limit deployments to one year, and sustain all of its other commitments" http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16689-2003Sep2?language=printer

September 23, 2003 – Draft Board Recruitment ad appears on Defense.Link site. First public ad for Draft Boards in decades. Page scrubbed within a few days of being noticed by some media in early November. Spokesman says there is “no plan” to reinstate draft, which must be authorized by Congress. http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html
http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm

October 16, 2003 – Donald Rumsfeld memo leaks, saying Iraq “will be a long, hard slog”. www.usatoday.com/news/washington/ executive/rumsfeld-memo.htm

Nov. 4, 2003 – NY Times article on Army Honor Guard Company B being sent to MidEast, revealing how thin troops are being stretched to cover the 2004-2005 rotation.
http://villagenews.weblogger.com/stories/storyReader$10007

Nov. 5, 2003 – Toronto Star article quotes Ned Lebow “This (draft board ad) is significant”, Lebow, a presidential scholar at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire and former professor of strategy at the National War College in Washington, adds, "What the department of defence is doing is creating the infrastructure to make the draft a viable option should the administration wish to go this route." http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1068073289288&call_pageid=968332188854

Nov. 5, 2003 – Guardian article on Draft Board ad. SSS spokesman Amon said 80% of 11,000 Draft Board slots are vacant. (2,000 local boards, over 8,000 empty seats) http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1077906,00.html

Nov. 12, 2003 – “If President Bush is re-elected, it is likely that he will reinstate the draft. The war on terrorism will not end in Iraq, but instead will proceed into countries like Syria and Iran," said Daniel Ellsberg, of Pentagon Papers fame. http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/11122003/news/60246.htm

November, 2003 – Selective Service 2004 “Performance Plan” summarizes how $28 million will be allocated in 2004 to reduce draft activation time from current 8 months to just 75 days. Nation-wide Readiness Exercises, testing the Draft Lottery and examination system, as well as gearing up the Medical Draft (3.4 million doctors and nurses, men and women age 20-44 are eligible). Ominously, the Alternative Service delivery system for Conscientious Objectors is readied for the first time in decades, with the SSS being funded to compile lists of available Alternative Service jobs for those who win non-military CO status. All systems will be pushed to reach 95% readiness during 2004.
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

Nov. 23, 2003 – Boston Globe article: “Army Reserve battling an exodus
War is seen as drain on ranks. The US Army Reserve fell short of its reenlistment goals this fiscal year, underscoring Pentagon fears that the protracted conflict in Iraq could cause a crippling exodus from the armed services.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2003/11/23/army_reserve_battling_an_exodus/

Nov. 24, 2003 – NY Times: Army plans for 100,000 troops until 2006 in Iraq.
http://www.iht.com/articles/118775.html

Nov. 26, 2003 – Ron Paul (R-TX) says “Draft likely to be reinstated”. http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul144.html

December, 2003 - Draft Board Recruitment ad re-appears on the Selective Service Home Page with 2 new sentences stressing the ad has “NO connection” to Iraq. (scrubbed March 2004) http://www.sss.gov

Dec. 4, 2003 – Ted Rall predicts Bush will “have to bring back the draft.” Notes 8,000 empty Draft Board seats to be filled by Spring 2005. Wonders about a “February (2005) Surprise” if Bush is re-elected. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&ncid=742&e=7&u=/uclicktext/20031204/cm_ucru/acolddraft

December 22, 2003 – In an article entitled “Beware of Attempts to Revive Military Draft,” Newsday reports that “the Center on Conscience and War… executive director, J. E. McNeil… has heard of rumblings, from the Republican side of the aisle in Congress, about a draft after the election”. The opinion piece worries whether a revived draft “would give this war-without-end presidency an endless source of warm bodies to pursue its cowboy foreign policy.” Author Keeler also wonders about a “February (2005) Surprise”.
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vpkee223594883dec22,0,6735184.story?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

December, 2003 - The Selective Service Register magazine talks about the new Special Skill Draft, a top priority for Director Lewis Brodsky. Like the Medical Draft, the Special Skills Draft will induct men and women up to age 44 if they have needed DoD skills like computer expertise, engineering or they are a linguist. As with the health care draftees, no medical deferments are allowed except for total disability. Anyone with these skills will have to register with the SSS if Bush is re-elected and asks Congress for this. Moving quickly!
http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/NovDec2003-Register.pdf (go to P. 6) – from sss,gov home page

December 29, 2003 - WP article: “Army Stops Many Soldiers From Quitting, Orders Extend Enlistments to Curtail Troop Shortages” 40,000 soldiers and Guard put on Stop-Loss. A “Draft Per Se” already exists! With the new stop-loss orders the Armed Forces actually go 20,000 past 480,000 active troops, to 500,000 active troops, the maximum before Congress steps in.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36979-2003Dec28.html

MY RECOMMENDATION, DON'T GET WORRIED, GET BUSY -- WORKING FOR KERRY!

[elf]

14. Thank you very much

that helps to understand and to decide between Switzerland or USA:toast:

[metis]

3. green card/draft

My BIL (with a green card) was drafted during the Vietnam war. He served in Vietnam.

[GCP]

4. As they can serve in the military, it would seem they'd be likely

to be drafted.

[daveskilt]

5. when you get your green card the INS signs you up

They signed me up for the draft...first I knew of it was when I got the little mailing saying thanks for signing up!

I did a bit of checking and found that I was more likely to be drafted as a non citizen since the usual stuff that reduces your chances of serving (college, marriage, kids etc) are not applicable for non citizens. If my birthdate came up I was going to be going regardless of rush like boils or cheney like other priorities. Of course I could have gone back to Britain but I figure in any hypothetical that the US is drafting me, the UK probably would be too, to go to the same place and kill the same people.
sucks

makes sense though why draft people whose families vote when you can draft a foreigner to fight for you?

[Wind Dancer]

15. This is scary!

December, 2003 - The Selective Service Register magazine talks about the new Special Skill Draft, a top priority for Director Lewis Brodsky. Like the Medical Draft, the Special Skills Draft will induct men and women up to age 44 if they have needed DoD skills like computer expertise, engineering or they are a linguist. As with the health care draftees, no medical deferments are allowed except for total disability. Anyone with these skills will have to register with the SSS if Bush is re-elected and asks Congress for this. Moving quickly!
http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/NovDec2003-Register.pdf (go to P. 6) – from sss,gov home page

Will this be approved by Congress? I need to start making arrangements now for a new place to live.

[Fear]

17. What a way wrong chosen name btw, SS S.......geeez

or maybe not? *shiver*