Outmoded belief system or accepted myths

[elfwitch]

There are many outmoded belief system and accepted myths. There is the "American Dream" one. There is the "Land of Opportunity" one. There is the "Beacon to the World" one.

Which ones can you think of that you feel are seriously tired and worn out that people still believe? Are there any that you still hold a glimmer of hope are still true?

[salvorhardin]

1. As corny as it sounds

I don't believe any of those are worn out. They may be abused and misused but I'd like to believe anyway that there's still a chance.

[anelson]

4. I agree, they are often abused

but they are also at the heart of what most people in the world think of the U.S. Not its government per se, but its citizens. I think the belief system of Theism (a belief in sky gods who care about us, as opposed to peoople making their own decisions and being responsible for their lives....)is only holding humanity back and it outdated.

[newyawker99]

20. Hi anelson!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[elfwitch]

6. I don't have that kind of faith any more...

I wish I could.

[ewagner]

2. "Small Businessman" comes to mind

First, it doesn't exist. The business world has a "get big or get out" mentality. The small guy is now known as lunch for the big corporate sharks.

Second, we glorify the small businessman for his/her ethics and drive. This is also a myth. They are just about as crooked as the big guys and screw their employees with equal glee.

By the way: I know there are exceptions and I'm tarring all with the same brush, but this has been my experience and I get sick of the myth being applied to the bad guys instead of the few good guys.

[bryant69]

3. What do you think of the argument

That although a small businessman may be just as likely to be corrupt as a big businessmen there is a great chance of societal pressure / economic pressure keeping him on the straight and narrow?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ewagner]

7. I've got to be careful

As I said, I'm afraid I'm condemning all by making too general of a statement.

I suspect that the truth is some are kept on the straight and narrow by societal pressure but I suspect that it is equally true that there are some who only try to maintain the appearance of being on the straight and narrow.


(how's that for hedging my bets?????) :)

[bryant69]

13. Good Hedging

And on a similar note, we'll see a negative example of this sort of set up where local theaters may or may not decide to show "Farenheit 9-11" because of community response. It cuts both ways unfortunately.

Which is why it's a good idea to call your local theater and see that they get it in.

[JoePizz]

5. The american dream isn't a myth, it's just somewhat different than it was

See, the original "American Dream" boiled down to a comfortable middle class life in a modestly upscale middle class neighborhood, where a man could work 40 hours a week and fully and comfortably support his family as the sole provider. A life were hard work was rewarded, and a worker could expect that dedication to the company he worked for for forty years would pay off in the form of a reasonable pension.

Today, the american dream is that the electricity or phone doesn't get cut off because the bill is 60 days past due. The american dream is now that your house won't get reposessed because the primary income earner in the family was "downsized". The american dream is now one where both parents only have to work one job each. That they might look forward to working until they're dead, because few jobs have pensions, and money put into a 401(k) disapears as fast as it goes in.

[supernova]

8. The Shining City on the Hill

meme is a very troubling one. The one that says the US is some better, smarter, more generous place (however you want to define "generous") It's the same one that Reagan used to say we are/could become/return to.

IMO it's want causes people to vote Republican against their economic interests.

Shining City should have been left in our history with the Puritans, where it belongs.

[Protagoras]

9. I'm curious what the * dream of other peoples are.

I mean sure if you are in a 3rd world slime-pit (like Detroit but overseas)your dream might be *Live another day and maybe find some food*.

But I find it interesting (and telling) that we only talk about national dreams in American contexts. Take any other industrialized country...especially ones where they have even MORE history and cultural heritage than we do (which is about all of them).

Don't the Dutch have some kind of Dutch Dream? How about the Japanese or the French (gah) or the Spanish, etc.

Don't those people have the same kinds of nationalistic ideals/beliefs/dreams that we do? I'm guessing the French have offered up that torch of liberty a time or two in their past *cough cough*...and how about those Belgians <sp>, don't they all want nice houses, long vacations, stable families, and good jobs?

I have mixed feelings about the subject of this thread because I agree that we've bought into a mindset that is out of step with current reality...but I also have an issue with the idea that it is unique to us...I think we've become very ignorant and arrogant if we think ONLY America is a land of Free or Brave people. I think we are off our rockers if we think that concepts of success and invention only occur in North America. Sure we may have led the pack for a few years (and lets be honest...we aren't talking a real long time in European terms)...but are we justified in trying to lay claim to BEST all the time? What are we basing it on...and why do we think the rest of the *civilized* world has any reason to agree?

I know, I know...if yew don't like Amerika yew shud move ta China or Iraq...but damn, why are those always my only choices?

[supernova]

11. It's unique to us

in that we actually tend to believe our myths, that they're *real* in some profound basic way beyond a few national holidays.

I do agree with you that each nation has its own narrative and mythology about itself. That's part of what defines a culture.

We take ours a little more literally than most, possibly because we are a relatively young nation.

[gpandas]

10. "The American people"

a favorite of politicians and pundits, this myth refuses to die. they sure don't have me in mind when using this ridiculous phrase. the u.s. is nearing 300,000,000 different PEOPLE.

[Warpy]

12. Horatio Alger

That old idea that anybody can make it, that all it takes is hard work. Well, lots of us work damned hard and don't make it, thanks to a lack of family connections or a lack of dumb luck.

It's the most destructive myth out there, causing a lot of self-blame in a lot of people who are doing useful work which should be appreciated and rewarded for what it is: the work that sustains this country.

Intelligence, ability and hard work mean nothing without opportunity, and it's time to drive a stake into Horatio's heart and kill the myth forever.

[Cleita]

14. Government "by the people and for the people".

What a big fat lie this one is.

[elfwitch]

15. That one has never really been true.

It's just not possible in a Representative Government system. There is no guarantee that you Representative will serve the interests of everyone. The best they can do is go by what the majority wants or by their own "best judgment" about what is good for their constituents.

"By the people and for the people" could only happen if there was really of system of one person one vote. If every vote actually counted.

[Seldona]

16. Of course it is not dead.

It absolutely amazes me that anyone can say this.

Have you worked 70 hour weeks for the last 5 years? I have.

And so has my wife.

We were fairly successful in the tech boom of the 90's, and decided to drop out of the rat race.

We started our own small business in a small college town.

We are starting to make money. After 4 years and a 200k investment.

We are actually looking into franchising, though that looks like it will cost me another 200k, minimum.

And I have to go BORROW that from a bank, and put up basically the last 15 years of our life's work to do it.

If we make it will I feel bad? Absolutely not. Here is why.

After thousands of hours working which basically COST me money, (I have literally slept in the basement because it cut into sleep time to travel the mile home) while listening to the college students we hire complain that we cannot afford to pay more than 7 dollars an hour for sitting behind a counter and making lattes, and answering computer questions.

Most have then proceeded to rip us off, most likely using the above wage as a justification.

Would I pay more if I could afford it? You bet.

And all this so we could actually spend a day or 2 a week with our 2 daughters together.

We solved that problem by simply cutting our hours.

Meanwhile, I have ran up my frigging credit cards simply paying for the $750,000 insurance policy we have to carry in case someone slips on our public sidewalk.

Not to mention electricians, permits, other insurance, food cost, electric bills, occasional computer upgrades, games, hosting fees, rent, taxes, workmans comp, etc.. etc... etc...

Did I mention nearly 5 years of 16 hour days 6 days per week for both my wife and I simply to remain solvent? If that.

Here is the link to our family business, if you care to check it out.

www.nethousecafe.cc (yes I need to update the site)

NOTHING in life is easy. It never was.

Was it easier? That I will grant you.

The problem, as I have experienced it, is that very few people have a serious work ethic.

And that is what it takes.

Now on to why I mention the work ethic.

I grew up raised by a blind father who had to take 3 steps for everyone else's 1.

He raised 4 children SOLO, after my mother died in 1979.

He attained his degree.

He then went on to co-found an non-profit organization that basically consults to higher educational systems in ADA compliance, mostly in distance learning.

See that here.

www.easi.cc

I once saw a survey of what the average 20 year old thought they would be doing at 40.

I believe it was in the area of 35% believed they would be retired millionaires.

ROFL

Okay, maybe a FEW will. Most will not.

But I believe that if you get up off your ass, (not you literally, I mean this figuratively), and stay off your ass, you will make it.

Will you retire at 35 to a mansion?

Doubtful.

But if you scrimp and save, you too can have your own home.

Maybe a little land with a cabin 'up north' as we Wisconsinites call it. (My personal dream)

No it is not dead. Despite the republicans best efforts.

Most simply fail to grasp that, like anywhere else in the world, it requires sacrifice, HARD work, and an iron will to get there.

Seriously, take a look at our sites.

All that was built out of basically nothing but an idea, and a few saved bucks from 10 years of work, and enough balls to hang out a shingle so to speak.

And all this in a town of 13 thousand.

If I can do it, I can assure you, anyone can.

Sorry if am rambling but this for some reason really struck a nerve in me.

Edited for typo

[elfwitch]

17. So we are putting you down on the side of...

there is still an "American Dream"?

That's why i asked the question. You believe in it. You've made it happen.

BRAVO! I admire anyone who can keep the faith.

[Seldona]

18. Ok, I got a bit long winded.

But yes, I think it is still there.

[HippieCowgirl]

19. Walking, Talking, Thinking, American Dream Here

If you think the "American Dream" is dead, look over here. (waves)

I grew up in the kind of rural poverty that most of you only read about in the context of third-world countries. For a while, I lived in a dirt-floored house with no plumbing, no electricity, an outhouse, and kerosene lamps for light. I went to school using textbooks that were 10 years out of date. It was expected that "girls like me" would drop out of school, get babies, and maybe get married, and work in a casino. Uh... No.

I'm educated. I own my own house. I have a good, stable job, a big chunk of investments to fall back on, and I'm going for a graduate degree. I have traveled to Europe and South America. I escaped poverty and the restrictions that this country places on the lowest class of it's citizens. THAT is my American Dream.

[newyawker99]

21. Hi HippieCowgirl!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[datasuspect]

22. American Nightmare

FREE - to make unlimited useless consumer choices

FREE - to work in a cube farm

FREE - to be invisible (contingent on color and social class)

FREE - to compete with my social betters on uneven playing field where hard work, education, and "go-getterism" often aren't as useful as being a young white male who can benefit from golf course cronyism and nepotism networks

there are lots of different americas out there.

i've lived in american ghettoes. i've been homeless. you know, big deal, but there are bill-of-rights-free zones all over this country. they are usually in poor areas where the cops appoint themselves as zookeepers rather than peace officers.

when i was younger, i used to think this was a great country. then i started to wake up.

[greekspeak]

23. Any of those pseudo-pithy one liners from civil religion

City on a Hill
Bright Shining Beacon
Shedding Ground for God's Grace
Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
Liberty and Justice For All

Change these to:

Overgrown cowtown on a mound
A decrepit lighthouse that needing some progressives to clean the mirrors
Shedding Ground for Toxic waste
Land of the Free Except Brown People, Home of the Brave Chickenhawks
Liberty and Justice For All, on a sliding scale based on income, race, gender, sexual orientation, political affiliation, etc.