The CIA Is Sinking BushCo NOW! Full torture memo available online!

[frank frankly]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5166951/site/newsweek /

There is no way the CIA will let Bush appoint a neo-con to replace him. They aren't going to let him do anything.

It is the beginning of the end.

Who else thinks that this week's Sunday shows will be flooded with Repub Senators?

IT IS OVER. Yes?

Thanks to geek tragedy for the catch!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x611189

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. What other memos are still out there we've yet to see, though?

Bet there are even worse ones.

---------------------
An open letter to John Kerry and the DNC:
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/OpenLetter.htm

[LittleApple81]

2. 42 pages... but it says draft... any significance to that? n/t

[Nevernose]

3. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense

This, perhaps, the most self-contradictory piece of self-justification I've ever laid eyes on.

[frank frankly]

4. i don't speak lawyer, but it's really bad, right?

it is like they don't know the law. oh, that's right. they are the law.

but for how much longer. how many more leaks are coming?

[unfrigginreal]

5. "Torture Statute does not apply to the conduct of U.S. personnel at GTMO"

Unfrigginreal

[Octafish]

12. That's where they become TOAST! That's GITMO - not Baghdad!

They applied the same principle to Baghdad. The stupid turds of the BFEE forgot that THAT was a whole other situation -- we invaded a non-threatening nation. They weren't terrorists. And we made war on them. And that means we, um, the United States, er, George W Bush and Co have to abide by the Geneva Conventions. And that makes Smirk and Sneer and Crisco and Rumsferatu and Comblicking Wolfowitz antsy - They fear prison.

[soothsayer]

6. that's venus doing her thing, revealing secrets

go, Venus, go!

[frank frankly]

8. that's right!!! go VENUS!

THE ENTS ARE NEXT!!!

these Treasonous POS motherfuckers are going to pay.

Come back, Ari, you're going to jail!

[Beetwasher]

7. The Memo Is the Friggin' MOTHER LOAD!

Now back to our regularly scheduled Reagan Beatification and Ultimate Whorefest Extravaganza!!

[ibegurpard]

9. All that stonewalling for naught, Asscrap!

What the hell did he think he was doing today?

[LittleApple81]

10. Turn on AAR now: (10:25 p.m. ET). Talking about this now.

Michael Ratner, International Human Rights lawyer who will be discussing Guantanamo Bay's Camp X-Ray, among other things.

[proud patriot]

13. I'm listening now

:thumbsup:

[slinkerwink]

11. that memo is humongous!

[Taylor Mason Powell]

14. I'd read it, but I'm studying for the Bar...

and I don't want to get confused by all that BAD LAW...

:-)

[frank frankly]

15. it's really bad, right? like funny if it wasn't scary bad?

give a layperson a hand. translate, if possible, even a little.

[Beetwasher]

16. It's Total Amateur Hour and put responsibility RIGHT ON CHIMPY'S LAP!

Three stooges do international law interpretation kinda deal...It's damning as hell and puts the whole thing in chimpy's lap because he's the ONLY one who has the authority to OVER RIDE international law according to the memo...It's HIS authority that makes the bending of torture rules possible according to this memo...HE KNEW AND APPROVED AND HAD TO PERSONALLY AUTHORIZE IT OR OTHERWISE IT COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

[frank frankly]

19. Ka-BOOM!!!

pResident Fubar, the CIA is after you. it should make you nervous.

good luck reading that eulogy friday, you fucking war criminal.

[Beetwasher]

20. It's No Mystery Why They Wanted To Keep It Secret

This is a MAJOR leak of a VERY embarrassing document. A lot of the questioning today makes sense in light of this. The Dems knew this was coming and set up Ashcroft today. It will be very scary if there are no consequences in light of this memo and Ashcroft's testimony.

[Th1onein]

41. But, but but........it was just a few bad apples.........

eom

[Taylor Mason Powell]

17. Oh, allright...

Just cause you asked so nicely, I'll go and try to wade through a bit of it...

(although I should warn you my brain's pretty fried right about now)

[Bake]

35. Trust me -- spend your time studying for the Bar!

The memo will be there (download it perhaps) after the Bar! Right now you've got other fish to fry, and you need all the prep you can cram in for it.

Bake, Esq.

From one who's been there. Two different times (2 states, passed both times).

[Taylor Mason Powell]

43. Good advice.

Yeah, I can't believe how hard this is...law school was a breeze by comparison!

[Straight Shooter]

18. Thanks for posting this, frank frankly. n/t

[Must_B_Free]

21. The spin will be that Al Gore really won

so he's really the President and really the one to blame for all of this.

[frank frankly]

23. that is about all they have left

they could question the memo's patriotism.

blame the memo! fucking traitorous ink! lousy paper!

buh-BYE BushCo!

:hi:

[calimary]

39. Hope the memo didn't get a blow job from some intern...

[WLKjr]

29. Wouldn't that just be a .....

little ironic?
little bit of a FLIP FLOPITY FLIP FLOP?
a little bit of (break into the al franken voice) LIE?

buh bye Bush/Cheney/Asscroft/Rumsfield/Powell/Wolfowitz/Ridge/Rice and all other traitors!

You are the weakest link, GOOD BYE!

[Must_B_Free]

22. Here it is on Yahoo

CLosest thing to the story; has a message board...

[Taylor Mason Powell]

24. Well, I'm up to page 12...

and I feel like I need to take a shower.

Basically, as far as I can tell (and it's frustrating because all I get is a tiny Acrobat window. Anybody know where I can actually download the file?), they're trying to argue for the ABSOLUTE NARROWEST DEFINITION OF TORTURE you can possibly imagine.

With respect to mental torture, for example, they're trying to argue that it's only a violation if the perpetrator specifically intends by his or her actions to make the victim suffer prolonged mental harm.

Think about that. If the torturer's intent is to merely get information out of the victim, and the torturer can claim that he has no interest or desire to make the victim suffer long-term, well, then, theoretically he could be off the hook.

(Although ultimately it's for a jury to decide whether the requisite mental state was present.)

That's as far as I've gotten.


One thing you all should bear in mind throughout this crazy wild ride is this: (and I know a lot of you know this)

Treaties are the Law of the Land.

Specifically, the Convention Against Torture was ratified by the President of the United States, making it the law of the land.


Hey, any guesses as to which president that was?

[Beetwasher]

25. RONALD REAGAN DUDE!!!

Hee Hee, any brownie points?!

I gave my summation above; in a nutshell, the President apparently obeys laws at his leisure when the security of the nation is involved. Therefore, one can only bend or break those laws with the EXPRESS CONSENT OF THE PRESIDENT. IOW, none of the bending of the rules regarding torture could happen WITHOUT BUSH'S DIRECT KNOWLEDGE, APPROVAL, AND AUTHORIZATION! It's totally in his lap AFAICT. Please correct me if I'm wrong! Good luck w/ the Bar!

[Taylor Mason Powell]

27. Yup!!

hee hee! (Hey, I think we've finally found that elusive ONE GOOD THING Reagan did! Someone alert Rush Limbaugh!)

I haven't gotten to the part of the memo you're talking about, and unfortunately I'm not going to get to it for a while, but based on other commentary I've read, your summation seems fairly on target. Although I don't know if it's the smoking gun that proves Bush's direct knowledge and approval...Might the president be able to act to bend the laws through his subordinates or other agents? I don't know.

The other angle that I think is important here is that the Constitution does not allow the President to simply disobey the laws at his whim, national security or no. Some clause about how the president shall "take care to uphold the laws..."

[frank frankly]

32. thanks for the info

sounds like it was Raygun. IRONIC!

[calimary]

40. But don't you HAVE TO "specifically intend" by your actions to make

the victim suffer prolonged mental harm if you're trying to get information out of same victim?

Not a lawyer, here. But it sounds like a foregone conclusion to me.

[WLKjr]

26. The Damn Page Is Lagged Out For Me

won't load quick

[ibegurpard]

28. It takes a while for the pdf to load into your browser.

It's 40+ pages long.

[WLKjr]

30. I know

but I have loaded many pages more in less time before.

[crossroads]

36. It's blank for me, but I didn't wait too long for it to load...

will try again. Thanks for letting me know...
:shrug:

[vetwife]

31. Read page 13.....Vets have a heck of a case there !

Obsessive compulsive disorder considered Mental condition.
Guess what ...The VA does not like to give compensation for this and yet they say it is (SICK) which we who work with vets know it is. It goes along with PTSD and those who get turned down after being diagnosed could use this memo as evidence to go back and refile and get their compensation for service connected disability ! Ha !
Who wrote this memo....and did Bush approve it?

[physioex]

33. Bunnypants is waay to simplistic...

Doesn't he realize that the Secret Agents are a brotherhood just like Police and Fire. If anyone shoots at a Police officer, all the officers will respond to defend him. If you out one secret agent over simple reasonable political differences, you will feel their wrath. Essentially he has created a war within the government itself. HOW STUPID!!!!

[frank frankly]

34. kick

:kick:

[anarchy1999]

37. Let us all take a trip back in time to Iran-Contra, shall we?

It is quite possible that Bush knew nothing. Remember how Reagan knew nothing about what Oliver North, Abrams, Negroponte and all the rest were doing? Just consider, and many of us here have suspected all along, Cheney is running the show from deep within a bunker somewhere, most of the time. Who was in charge on 9/11? Bush?

Just something to think about.............

[coloradodem2005]

38. This may be the best news I have heard in the last two weeks.

n/t

[ibegurpard]

42. kick

:kick:

[ibegurpard]

44. kick

eom

[Spazito]

45. Kick

*