Working and poor: What steps should government take to help?

[prolesunited]

I was reading an excellent article in the May 31 Business Week describing the current conditions for the working poor and it brought home many of the challenges and difficulties the working poor face.

To me, it seems grossly unfair that we people who are out there every day in the trenches do not make enough money to provide the basic necessities for themselves and their families.

Some interesting facts:
• More than 28 million people, about a quarter of the workforce between 18 and 64, earn less than $9.04 an hour, which translates into an annual salary of $18,800.
• Overall, 63% of families below federal poverty line have one or more workers.
• Nearly 60% are white and the majority possess high school diplomas, even some college.
• Most low-wage workers do not have paid sick leave or vacation, health benefits or pension plans.

So what is the solution. The magazine provided a list of solutions. Granted, implementing them all would be the best, but if you could only pick ONE, which would be of most benefit.

Please take the opportunity to weigh in on the situation, rank the solutions and provide your own suggestions. There is plenty here to discuss.

I think if we could formulate some viable solutions, people would respond. How does Kerry's platform address some of these issues?

[Delano]

1. Cut the payroll tax, raise minimum wage

Min. wage needs to be pegged to inflation and raised annually. Don't cut Section 8. Raise top income tax rate on incomes over 300K, give the money to the states on the condition that they lower their sales taxes accordingly.

In other words, progressive taxation, progressive taxation, and progressive taxation.

[shraby]

2. Actually all of the above

would help.

[prolesunited]

3. I agree, which I stated above

If you had to rank them in order from most effective to least effective, what would that order be?

[redqueen]

4. I voted other - we need a LIVING WAGE

Reich talked about this a week or so ago, saying that raising the minimum wage is a band aid measure that will be eaten up quickly in various ways. He said, and I agree, that no family with a full time worker should live in poverty. A parent should be able to raise their children on their earnings from a full time job.

Middle Class Squeeze

http://www.house.gov/georgemiller/middleclass/middleclass1.html">PAYCHECKS: Workers Feeling the Squeeze

"Taxes on wages now average almost 24 percent. Taxes on income from investments, like stocks and bonds, average less than 10 percent."

Universal, single payer healthcare would help a lot too, but I think addressing the ability to provide for your family with your earnings is paramount.

[AP]

5. All of above. Best way to think about this is to look at what people....

...spend money on/where they get money and figure out if there's a way to help people keep more money in their pocekts.

Clearly the value of labor is being devalued by overseas competition with the former colonized countries where they're willign to work for 1/5th the price, and high unemployment at home is devaluing labor too.

So, better foreign policy, stronger unions, and a government that protects the interest of people who work for a living would be great.

People spend the most money they have on home, car, taxes and probably health care.

So, we have to do something about the cost of owning a home, car (public transportation?), allocating taxes fairly and health care.

Then we need to look at all the de facto monopolies (and lack of competition) we have in this country which are forcing the prices up on consumer goods whether on the nickel and dime level or for 100s of dollars a month.

There's clearly something wrong with energy markets, telephones, cable, insurance, etc.

We need to get real competitiveness back into capitalism, and not this bullshit legislated monopolization and no-bid contracting we have.

[AP]

6. And if you're ranking these by value, obviously education is very ...

...important. I read somewhere that the difference between a college and highschool degree is on average, 1 mil in lifetime earnings.

[prolesunited]

9. Question is

would more people with college diplomas dilute the labor market, meaning if more had them, their value would decrease (not that I'm knocking the intrinsic value of education.)

[AP]

11. I think people create value with education. It's not so much a key to...

...entering a room so much as it is giving people the tools to create things.

[AP]

7. I decided: A FAIR TAX CODE which allocates benefits and burdens equitably

is clearly the key.

Why?

Because unburdening the rich through the tax code is what has shifted so much economic, and therefore, political power to the richest Americans. With that political power, they are standing in the way of all those other reforms.

By keeping wealth in the working and middle classes, and not letting so much accumulate among the richest, you will keep enough political power among the people who will force through all those other changes, like better public schools, better legal protections for labour, etc.

So, fix the tax code (along with campaign finance reform) and I imagine everything else will fall in pl;ace.

[Cleita]

8. Helping the employer with employee benefits I think would be a beginning.

Since the majority of employers are not big corporations but small businesses, they need help in providing their employees with the benefits and wages they need for a minimum standard of living.

First let's start with daycare. Giving the employers incentives to provide their employees with daycare would be a start whether they are vouchers or tax breaks for having a business supported day care center on the block.

Providing a low cost government health plan the employers can buy and that would compete with the private health industry could be the start of universal health care for all in the end.

Providing a government run free Workers Compensation and liablity insurance to all employers who give their employees a living wage could help break the minimum wage deadlock. Minimum wage is supposed to cover the cost of living of the employee, that is rent, utilities, food, transportation and clothing. If employers don't have to worry about the overhead of having employees, then they should be prompted to pass the savings on to their employees in wages.

[sadiesworld]

10. All of the above and add affordable housing.

[redqueen]

12. KICK for more input

:kick:

[prolesunited]

21. Thanks for the kick!

I got busy at work. :hi:

I really think this is turning out to be an interesting discussion. Lots of great ideas.

[skippysmom]

13. I voted other: make taxes more progressive

The biggest issue in this country is the growing gap between rich and poor. People earning less than $20K shouldn't pay much in taxes, if anything. The millionaires need to pay more.

[Michael Costello]

14. unions

I voted unions. I don't think government has to do anything FOR unions, I think it just has to stop doing things AGAINST unions. Repeal Taft-Hartley for starters. I have more faith in the power of unions to do something than government.

[Kanary]

24. That sounds fine...........except........

*Businesses* are in the process of busting unions now, not the gov. For example, a local grocery chain is going to lock out their union when the current contract is up in a few months. They will then hire back at Walmart wages, sans union.
Unions simply don't have the power they used to have......... they are few and far between, and relatively weak.

Kanary

[Kanary]

25. That sounds fine.............except.........

*Businesses* are in the process of busting unions now, not the gov. For example, a local grocery chain is going to lock out their union when the current contract is up in a few months. They will then hire back at Walmart wages, sans union.
Unions simply don't have the power they used to have......... they are few and far between, and relatively weak.

Kanary

[IrateCitizen]

15. I voted other -- here's my list (or beginnings thereof)

1. Re-adjust the poverty line to reflect what it actually costs to provide food, housing, clothing and basic health care. If the poverty line were adjusted to reflect these realities, it would be somewhere around $32,000/yr for a family of four. It should also be indexed by region, because the poverty line in rural WV is much lower than for NYC, due to overall cost of living.

2. Repeal Taft-Hartley, and institute a NLRB policy genuinely interested in protecting the rights of workers to organize, rather than acting primarily as a pimp for big business. Organizing is one of the greatest equalizing tools that low-wage workers could possess, on a level playing field.

3. Re-institute progressive taxation standards, especially with regards to unearned income. It is an absolute travesty that low-wage workers are taxed at a higher rate than those who live primarily off of vast sums of unearned income. For those who are worried about affecting retirees and such, the solution is simple -- make capital gains taxation progressive, with exemptions for the sale of a house up to a certain level.

4. Cut payroll taxes in half (back to their pre-Reagan levels) and remove the ceiling.

5. Tie affordable, low-rent housing to development and especially gentrification efforts. For instance, if a developer wants to revitalize a neighborhood, they are required to supply a certain percentage of housing units in the low-income range. Not only will this help solve low-rent housing shortages, but will also help eliminate classism as people from different classes will once again live near each other.

6. Establish government-funded child care for low-income workers.

7. Expand public transportation networks -- this benefits everyone in the long run, but ESPECIALLY the working poor.

8. Make the availability of job training an integral part of welfare. The goal of welfare should be as it was initially intended -- to give a hand to those in need. Therefore, people who have to go on welfare should have full availability of job training opportunities, with certain performance standards.

This is just a partial list, but it's a start.

[redqueen]

17. Have you ever considered running for office?

Just curious. :)

[IrateCitizen]

18. Don't even go there, redqueen. Not now, at least.

I don't have the time nor inclination in the immediacy to run for any kind of office. I'm trying to tie up my time with the Army Reserve (while still following my CO claim), along with going to school at night to get my teaching certificate for HS physics and mathematics.

As it stands right now, I don't have too many aspirations for any kind of elected office. I'd rather dedicate my efforts to organizing and agitating, because that's what we need right now more than anything.

Since the politicians refuse to lead, then it's up to the people to make them follow.

[redqueen]

19. Understood

Nothing good ever came from politicians, it's true... they all had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the people.

I thought your list was quite good.

[IrateCitizen]

20. Thanks -- I'm a bit of a "hobby wonk" on the subject

I'm not the best advocate for the working poor, because I'm not one of them (I'm actually probably upper middle class). But considering that my family WAS working poor going back two generations, and I had a grandfather with an 8th grade education who was able to put both of his kids through college, it's something I keep some kind of touch with, and read up on as much as I can to get a better idea of what the plight of the working poor REALLY is in this country, in hopes that those of us from all classes can come together to help enable them to improve their lot in life.

Nobody should work two or three jobs just to be dead broke by the end of the week. It's a travesty that it happens at all, let alone with the incredible frequency at which it actually occurs.

[prolesunited]

26. You have a number of excellent ideas

Of your list, which do you think are the most achievable? Which is most likely? Are any of these suggestions being discussed by the DNC?

[IrateCitizen]

28. All of my proposals are achievable over time

The question is, where is the political will to get them implemented eventually in some form?

I don't think the DNC is paying attention to these kinds of things, for two reasons. First, because the Democratic Party, by and large, has bought into RW economic theories and embraced "market fundamentalism" over the past 25 years. Second, because working to achieve any of these policy goals would require looking beyond the next election, something that the DNC appears unable to do in its current form.

Of course, I'm not entirely pessimistic -- there are many organizations springing up on the left and center-left that might be able to provide the organizational and ideas framework to achieve them. Dean's group, MoveOn.org, TrueMajority, the Center for American Progress, and so on are all picking up the work on the left and center-left that has been done by Heritage, AEI, etc. on the right.

[indigo32]

34. I love

4,5,6 especially
:hi:

[union_maid]

36. I would agree with those and add at least one other

Lack of affordable housing is perhaps the single biggest barrier to getting out of poverty in some areas. In our county housing is through the roof. If you can find something for a thousand a month it's a miracle and it's going to a really crappy, illegal, basement apartment. So quite a cross-section of people can wind up in emergency housing with a few bad breaks. Once in emergency housing you're moved constantly - often from one end of our very long county to the other. Jobs and education for kids is impossible to maintain. If you have income you have to pay most of it for the emergency housing so saving up to get out of the area is not possible. There are some charities and social services programs that will help you with the money that you need to get into housing - for deposit and security and so forth, but you have to be able to afford the rent thereafter to qualify for that. Section 8 has been gutted and the lists are closed in many towns. It's an absolute nightmare for people who get caught in this and extricating yourself from it is very difficult. This must change.

[camero]

16. Other: All of the above

It's not a one-dimensional problem and requires more than a one-dimensional solution. The big thing is to reduce the inequality of wealth. There wouldn't be poor people without rich people and vice versa.

[rbnyc]

22. The reason I voted for universal health care...

...is that the specific reason that wages are low where I work is because of the huge cost of health insurance. It's something like $700 per month per employee. What a disgusting burden for a non-profit to shoulder.

[Massacure]

23. My opinion: health care and mass transit

Cut health care cost or give free health care and improve mass transit. If people don't have to pay $200 a month on car loands + fuel, and they don't have to pay who knows how much on drugs, then it will be much easier to live.

[Pithlet]

27. It's hard to know how to prioritize those

Because implementing only one of them won't go nearly far enough. Raising the minimum wage won't help with health care or childcare issues, as those affect the middle class as well. Pick daycare and there's still the issue of low pay, and lack of other benefits. If I had to pick just one, I'd say health care, followed by living/raising the minimum wage. The changes you listed are all so desperately needed.

[bleedingheart]

29. Funny thing is that a lot of them don't vote and they get screwed

because of it.

If all eligible citizens voted and were involved in civic activities we would have a lot of those things you listed.

[silverweb]

30. All of the above.

All of the above are needed, especially for single parents (and I know all about that)!

[deeprig9]

31. I consider myself a half-assed economist....

There has always been poverty in every society in human history that I am aware of. I don't think there are steps the government can take to end it. The communists tried, that was their goal, but it didn't work, I guess because of too much outside influence, or maybe it was just a pipe dream.

Another way to look at it, which has already been brought up, is that poverty factors in Rural SC are going to be different than the issues in Detroit Michigan. What will help poverty in Detroit won't work in Conway SC.

A third thing to consider, is that if everyone's pay goes up significantly, will people who make $50,000 a year be considered poor because they are the lowest income earners?

With these considerations, I believe anyone who earns less than 60% of the median income as per census data by the respective county the individual resides in, should be considered poor. These people should be exempt from all federal taxes except social security.

Because reasons for poverty are usually more of local issues, a progressive state government has the responsibility to cure those local problems, with federal assistance if need be. But Senator xyz from Wyoming probably doesn't know what is perpetuating poverty in Delaware.

Paying no taxes, recieving Welfare, and Section 8 benefits, there is no reason a parent can't support two children on one low-wage job. Housing is free, and after adjusting for non-taxed income, things will be tight, but noone is going to starve to death.

[thebigidea]

32. Ayn Rand, get thee behind me!

[deeprig9]

37. Sorry, I don't know what that means

but I assume it's condescending.... (SP?)

At some point you have to hold people responsible for their own actions and life choices.... I hate to sound like a "freeper" but I think you understand what I mean. There is alot..... a TON of programs out there for the poor.... Most listed here under this topic.... would adding day care help? Certainly. But how would this happen? Would the fed just reimburse the expense or run it kind of like section 8 where individual private day care centers get payment guarantees for the poor from the government? I think it's a great idea for a State government to do. Bad idea for the fed.

I think: poor already get section 8, do you know what that is? They already get Welfare. They already don't pay much taxes (I believe they should pay less taxes). How much further do you go until you are literally babysitting grown adults?

Furthermore, in SC where I live, the State government funds mortgages for first time home buyers who are UNDER the 80% median income level by county, at fixed rates AT LEAST a full point under market (market= what the rich people get) AS WELL AS a $4000 gift from the government for the down payment.

So, you can't tell me that states can't implement their own programs to help the poor, because SC is one of the most conservative states in the country, and look what it's doing for the poor. Plenty. Almost makes me want to quit my job and get a lower paying one so I could qualify for that loan program.

[camero]

Wrong

The fixed rates are generally 6-8%. 4 full percentage points above prime. The waiting list for section 8 is YEARS long.

[deeprig9]

pardon?

Fixed rates for what are 6-8%? Clarify please.

[camero]

30 year mortgages for Section 8 people

Or don't you have any idea how banks and Fannie Mae deal with credit worthiness? We obviously have an Econ 101 major.

[redqueen]

39. Wow that's a sweet first home loan program

those 'lucky duckies'

:puke:

When you quit your job and get a poverty-level one, get back to us about how easy it is on your and your family, K?

[indigo32]

40. Have you any experience with

Section 8 or "welfare"? I'm curious.

[deeprig9]

42. limited

I am a finance broker for residential and commercial/multi-family properties, so I have limited experience with section 8, not much with welfare though. Are your curiousities satisfied or do you have a follow up question?

[redqueen]

43. Are you confusing local/state programs with the federal Section 8?

Perhaps?

[thebigidea]

44. By all means, quit your job. Being poor is FUN!

Those poor people are such fuckin' complainers. Whine whine whine.

I can tell you're gonna be REAAAAAAAAAALLY popular here.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deeprig9]

38. Waiting period for Section 8???

Not in my town my friend. It's everywhere. Its selling like hotcakes. The properties and lease agreements that is....

[redqueen]

45. See post 43

n/t

[camero]

35. Half assed is right

In a society of limited resources, every dollar the rich takes is at the expense of the poor. Who really do work to pay taxes, not by sitting around and reading the Scam Street Journal to see how their scam is going today.

[camero]

47. Buh Bye

[0rganism]

41. All are important, but reforming international trade agreements is #1

Let's just face the facts: Billions of people around the world live in poverty that most of us who own computers can barely imagine. Without any trade protection, they form an infinitely-exploitable non-union workforce with which we have to compete. The goal, of course, is to promote their living standards and environmental protections to those we enjoy, rather than diving down to meet them on their current pay level.

But guess what's going to happen as long as a corporation can slash its labor expenses by duty-free outsourcing to the 3rd world?

This is a global market, let's accept that we're going to be distributing labor purchases on a large scale. But right now we still have the opportunity to pick the rules of the game, and the field on which we play it. We can make the honest effort to improve conditions for humanity worldwide, or we can let corporations exploit cheap labor wherever they can find it.

Barring unforeseen calamities, someday in the not-too-distant future, American workers are going to be making as much as Mexican, Indonesian, and even Chinese workers for comparable work. This can be done in such a way that everyone makes a living wage with reasonable health care benefits, or it can be done so that we all enjoy the kind of abject poverty that comes with an exploited labor market. We have a choice.

[redqueen]

46. Oooh oooh oooh!

How about a maximum wage law?!

[Independent_Minded]

48. my idea may not be popular but i believe it

i think the solution would be education reform in the long run.

also, as a long term solution we should make social security real property that can be inherited and assigned a benefactor.

in the short term, lower the FICA tax and kill all government subsidies to farmers, which will lower the price of essential produce.

[sam sarrha]

49. after taxes it is more like 16,000 dollars annually

this is pretty sad considering Bill Gates after Bushes tax cut only paid the taxes of someone making $87,000 dollars which means the working class living poverty has to pick up that tab.

I cant stomach the people here that make 6 or 7 figures and have more wealth than the poorest 3 BILLION people .. that feel they dint need to pay their dues.