I own an SUV

[jiacinto]

I see people attacking those who own SUVs all the time here as being greedy and selfish. First of all I am saying this because I think that the attacks on SUV owners are unfair and unjust.

First of all I am moving to another state soon. And I was looking at compact cars; but, when I saw the sticker price, it was only a few thousand less than an SUV. I then called moving companies and all the estimates I got for moving my belongings was around 2-3 thousand dollars.

So I spent the extra thousand and bought an SUV recently. I need it to take my belongings to the new state I am moving toward. It was a little more than I could spend, but I would have spent as much using the moving company. I didn't buy the car to be a snob or because I was greedy.

I am writing this because I am sick of being scapegoated here at DU as someone who is "greedy" and "evil". And it wouldn't suprise me if some of you owned SUVs too.

[Walt Starr]

Don't worry, I own an SUV too

My SUV gets better mileage than most "economy" cars any way.

[LEFTofLEFT]

149. walt and jacinto

both of you - it is really no surprise.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

208. your SUV gets better mileage than most economy cars?

Really? Which SUV do you own, what's the mileage, and which economy cars get worse mileage? Just curious.

[Oracle]

221. It would be nice if you supported Democratic Underground financially

jiacinto, as many of us non SUV drivers here do.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

223. he does

and he's been here longer than you, Oracle.

[Oracle]

227. No he doesn't and no he hasn't!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

234. you responded to me, not jiacinto

Yes I do support DU financially, and I have been around for quite a while. Can't speak for jiacinto.

[hatrack]

1. That's nice - I own a cat nt

.

[Walt Starr]

2. I am a staff member for three cats

Dogs have owners.

Cats have staff.

[hatrack]

4. HAH!!

Aint't that the truth!

BTW, did I mention the fair and balanced nature of my cat?

[CatWoman]

29. well, four cats own me!!!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

95. I'm the indentured servant to two beautiful boy kitties

one who loves to wake me up at sunrise to let me know one of the food dishes is empty.

[Twenty3]

142. As long as we talkin' kitties

Here's my owner:



I Live To Serve

[Gemini Cat]

160. I am owned by five beautiful toms.

Two had their behaviour modification operations this year and the other three will have the same when they reach eight months.

The six of us are owned by a rabbit and we love it!

[ScreamingMeemie]

228. I think it's a cat that lives here..either that or a rare furry pig.

[Skittles]

3. whatever

You'd never catch me driving one of those things.

[jiacinto]

6. That's fine

But why all the attacks on us?

[Skittles]

11. because

THEY ARE GAS GUZZLERS

[Sirius_on]

So are Caddys, Lincolns, Buicks, Dump Trucks, Seafood Trucks

Semis, Bulldozers, large vans, Nascar vehicles, Space ships and on and on and on.............

[Walt Starr]

107. I own a Saturn Vue SUV

It gets 20 MPG.

My Saturn SW2 got 21 MPG before I traded it in.

What's so wrong with my SUV?

[never cry wolf]

116. my honda civic hybrid

gets 50 mpg. nothing is inherently wrong with suvs except that they are technically classified as trucks and therefore exempt from federal regulations on mileage and safety. if you need one for the size for work/kids/carrying capacity fine.

[goddess40]

158. milage

My Camry gets 32 mpg and my Prius gets 45 mpg.

[tokenlib]

192. Does a VUE really count as an SUV???

I also have a Saturn VUE and love it. I annoy my friends who own big pickups or Envoys etc, because at 28MPG on the highway (the 4 cyl) it is respectable. They kid with me that I have a BABY SUV. The taunts are like absolution for me. :-)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

5. They pollute

They are not subject to the strict emissions test that your average passenger vehicle has to pass. My sister is in the midst of moving too, and she bought a Suburu wagon. There is more room in her wagon than a small SUV.

The fact that you posted this shows you have qualms about your purchase.

[jiacinto]

12. I don't have qualms per se

I am happy with the car. I am just stressed about the move in general.

[Iris]

23. and they are dangerous

particularly to other drivers. Plus, their rollover rate is very high.

In a recent article in The Atlantic, an SUV owner admitted to using the size of his vehicle to intimidate other drivers.

Now, obviously not all SUV drivers are such assholes, but for the most part I think most of them don't even consider the implications of driving a vehcile that gets 12 miles per gallon and can DRIVE OVER a smaller vehicle. They just buy one because everyone else does.

And about the Subaru and the interior space - there are plenty of vehicles that have more interior space than many SUVs.

[cprise]

45. danger to other drivers

and what are the chances he has no qualms about that, either...

[markus]

58. I have no problems with SUVs

provided they reinstate the gas guzzler tax, and charge them liability insurance rates comensurate with the damage they do to other people's vehicles.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

81. Exactly. SUV story from my city

I live in Cambridge, MA where most of the streets date from the 1600s and are no wider than a cow path. My sister lived on a little one-way street that, in city fashion, had cars parked on both sides. A giant SUV-an Expedition or some such monstrosity-drove down the street and managed to sideswipe about a dozen cars-and he kept going. My sister was in her front yard and got a partial plate, called the Cambridge cops, and the jackass was apprehended a few blocks away (the traffic moves very slowly around here). There was a rainbow of paint on the side of his monster SUV. That story to me embodies the typical SUV driver.

[theHandpuppet]

71. Yep, I have a four cylinder Escort wagon...

... that gets terrific gas mileage, and I'll bet I can fit more into that small wagon (and its luggage rack) than most folks can squeeze into their gas-guzzling SUVs.

Jacinto is just rationalizing the purchase of a gas-guzzling, pollution spewing behemoth -- IMHO.

[bloom]

82. I don't think that a Subaru wagon and a Subaru Forester (SUV)

differ in any appreciable way - gas guzzling/polluting, etc.

[cprise]

136. he's driving an Element, not a Forester

the latter is more of a wanna-be suv...

[bloom]

138. I think Elements and Foresters are pretty similar

and get similar mileage, etc. Actually, I think that the Element may be rated higher environmentally than the Forester.

I have a Forester and considered a Legacy. It's mostly a difference of it you want the space to be flatter or taller.

The thing is - it doesn't make sense to me to say the Legacy is OK, but the Forester isn't - Just because it's an SUV. Or that the Forester is OK - but the Element isn't.


All SUV's are not the same. SUV's are not necessarily evil (or more evil than cars).

[soleft]

231. The Element is the new AMC Pacer

One of the ugliest cars I have seen, with the exception of the Plymouth Aztec

[meisje]

137. what about lawnmowers

do you hate them too?

[jafap]

201. I sure do, even more than SUVs

I have about 3/4 acre to cut and my mower goes clack, clack, clack. I think that there should be one designated mowing day per week, so you do not have to hear the tanjed things roaring almost 24/7 all summer. Of course, with the drought, no one is cutting their grass very much these days. I also get around mostly by bicycle, so I am not all that fond of any car. 40,000 deaths per year - it's not just your car, it's your coffin. "If I were the king of the world, tell you what I'd do. I'd throw away the cars and the bars and the wars ..."

[LeftHander]

218. Reel mowers rock

Grow a prairie, garden whatever....

reduce the bluegrass to the point where you can mow with a push reel mower....

I love my push reel mower. I can mow at 5:30 in the morning and nobody cares....

[JohnKleeb]

7. Thats ok, I dont like them but I aint gonna flame ya

but I dont like owners of them acting like they dont have faults, I dont own one, my dad who like you is a dem has one. Me, I wont get one because I dont need one really.

[SoCalDem]

8. When our kids were young

we had a huge econo-van conversion.. It was a bear to park.. I like my 91 honda & my 82 toyota :)

[goobergunch]

9. How many miles per gallon does it get? (n/t)

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goobergunch]

37. LOL

You call Carlos, who has 21597 posts, an instigator, yet you have 237 posts. :wtf:

[bloom]

88. It could happen...

"You call Carlos, who has 21597 posts, an instigator, yet you have 237 posts."

[DiverDave]

154. OIC, the big poster vs the noob

I call em as I've seen em...gotta prob with that?
Oh and your 1000+ dont mean a flip to me either.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

225. What do you expect?

As soon as a Green joins and has 25 posts, they start spouting off.

[Walt Starr]

113. I disagree with Carlos on many things, but.....

Carlos is a long time DUer with many activist campaigns to his record. Carlos is on of the most Democratic Democrats on Democratic Underground.

That's the Fair and Balanced Truth!

I stick up for Carlos. He is one of the most important members on DU. He keeps us from going overboard and entering the left version of the Freeperzone.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

93. It should be 'How many soldiers per gallon?'

:-(

[w13rd0]

10. Though I'd not drive one (I hate "big cars" and don't like...

...feeling like I'm on the verge of crushing things at any moment), and find that the form factor encourages bad behavior and aggressive driving, I support better fuel efficiency and would not advocate taking the form factor off the market...

[kwolf68]

13. Oh lord

Here again. "Evil", "Greedy"...Is what you said I called you on another thread.

I am not sure, but you MUST NOT HAVE read what I wrote. SO, instead of doing it this way...how about pointing OUT where you have been called EVIL?

I am not "against SUVS". In some instances there is good justification for them. But I believe America can do better than consuming finite resources at the rate we do. I don't believe YOU have to go without a larger vehicle. I believe we CAN have SUVs THAT do well with gas.

As far as SUV getting BETTER mileage than an economy car. LMAO...Oh yea...I drive a small pickup truck (4 cylinder). Its not very good on gas and I am working on doing something different.

[VermontDem2004]

14. How do you think Terrorists get there money?

[rabid_nerd]

19. College football?

:shrug:

[VermontDem2004]

25. No oil

I thought you knew that.

[rabid_nerd]

32. I'm being sarcastic...

I noticed the pic, lol...

Actually terrorists probably get more money through paying the IRS, you could argue, lol

[VermontDem2004]

76. About the money

the connection is usually simple and direct, oil revenues go straight to terrorist governments, because the terrorist government itself owns the oil deposits or because it collects taxes based on oil revenues. Such revenues are then used to finance terrorist operations.

In other cases, such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, the connection is indirect and somewhat less simple. The enrichment of the region, based on the fact that it possesses oil which it sells in the world market, makes possible a demand for goods and services in the region that would otherwise not exist. For example, the fortune inherited by Osama Bin Laden was in the construction industry. The Bin Laden construction firm is reportedly the largest construction firm in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia's ability to support a construction industry, and to make a construction firm rich, rests on the revenue it derives from oil, which is then used in part to finance construction projects. The portion of this wealth inherited by Osama Bin Laden finances terrorism. There are so many other ways, I spent many hours researching the money trail.

[pnb]

98. Well then people shouldn't drive at all

Its OK to give SOME money to terrorists but someone who gives a little more is bad?

I guess we have to get rid of ALL cars then.

[VermontDem2004]

105. No

There are gas companies that don't import oil from the mid-east
Citgo
Sunoco
Conoco
Sinclair
Phillips

The point I am trying to make is, if you have a chance to buy a fuel efficient car, do it. Go to these gas stations I listed above unless you know that you are to far from those gas stations and you need gas. If everyone does this, we will cripple the terrorists funds, plus we will help the environment.

[never cry wolf]

133. hey, really

it doesn't matter where you buy your gas from. there is a limited amount of world supply and the good ole USA consumes 25% of the worlds oil. on the world market you buy a gallon of gas, you buy a gallon of gas. it don't matter where it comes from, it all props up the sellers, who are ultimately are the mideast.

we NEED energy independence. since we use 25% of the worlds reserves and own 3% of em, gee, i guess we need an alternative.

[Ein]

181. Not at all.

We can run cars w/o oil and environmentally harmful emmisions. Too bad big business has this country in a stranglehold.

It's one of the reasons I completely distance myself from the environmental movements, they all segregate themselves into little issues, instead of joining and going right after Big Oil and other huge obstacles to the environment.

[NNN0LHI]

30. What? They sell SUV's? Wow. n/t

[VermontDem2004]

36. It's nice to get a stupid ass answer

No it's from oil. As you know, SUV's are gas guzzlers. It seems to me no one cares if Terrorists get money or not.

[NNN0LHI]

53. How much you spend on gas last year?

Was it enough to buy a dozen box cutters? Are you a terra-ist sympathizer or something?

Don

[VermontDem2004]

57. I don't have a car

but if I did, I would only purchase gas from these companies that do not import oil from Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia

Citgo
Sunoco
Conoco
Sinclair
Phillips

[NNN0LHI]

74. Ever get on a plane? Ever take a taxi? Even just once maybe?

How about after you were born? Someone give you a ride home from the hospital on a bicycle maybe?

Don

[VermontDem2004]

85. Of Course

But the point I am trying to make is limit gas useage as much as possible. If you have a chance to buy a more fuel efficient car do it, or car pool. If everyone does this, you will see the terrorist funds dramatically decrease.

[DagmarK]

Okay......speaking of cost comparisons......

how much is your vehicle insurance for that SUV?

How much will your gas cost each year?

How much will new tires cost?

How much will new brakes cost? (My economy car's brakes get changed every few years; my friend's luxury truck gets its brakes changed every year or less -- weight of vehicle greatly wears down the brakes, btw).

Depending on where you are moving and will register your lil monstrosity, how much more will your vehicle registration be?

My dear......if it was cost comparisons that you use to justify your purchase......then I am laughing my ass off thinking of you writing all those checks in the next few years!!!!!!

SUCKER! Bwahahahahahahahaha!

[jiacinto]

17. It's a Honda

And they are great cars. And I don't plan on keeping it more than 3 years .

[Andy_Stephenson]

21. Whew a honda....

Passport or CRV?

[jiacinto]

42. Element

nt

[catzies]

90. No Passports anymore...they were Isuzu-built and Honda finally got smart

Now, they only put their nameplate on stuff they actually build.

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. Not greedy and evil....

But if you drive an suv your part of the problem and not the solution. Especially if it is a V6 or 8.

[Fescue4u]

193. v6?

A v6 SUV is proably just about right. God help someone with a 4 cylinder suv.

[AntiCoup2K4]

216. 4 cylinder SUV? do they actually make such things??

What good is a gutless SUV? Kinda takes the "sport" and "utility" capabilities out of it. I'm highly skeptical of the announced intentions of the auto mfgs plans to build hybrid trucks and SUV's because the hybrid vehicles thus far have been smaller cars capable of running with a 4 banger engine.

And this, unfortunately, is why 6'6" me can't drive such a vehicle :evilfrown:

[GOPisEvil]

16. I'll reserve my comments until I know the following:

1. What type of vehicle is this? (Make/Model)
2. What is this vehicle's EPA Estimated gas mileage?

[jiacinto]

20. It's a Honda Element

And I'd have to look at the owner's manuels for the mileage. I think it gets mileage in the very high 20s per gallon.

[Andy_Stephenson]

24. Ok your off the hook

Thank God it was not an expedition or some road hog like that.

[jiacinto]

35. It was the only car I liked

And also the Honda brand came highly recommended.

[Andy_Stephenson]

40. Well Carlos...I am really excited for you and your new car.

enjoy it! I am glad, really, that is high mileage. It's not an earth killer.

[DagmarK]

28. If you were really concerned.....wouldn't you know the gas mileage

BEFORE you signed on the dotted line? You didn't even INQUIRE about this when you were test driving this thing?

Did you REALLY even test drive an economy car?

Sheesh..... have your SUV.....enjoy it.....lie to yourself that you aren't part of the problem. But don't come here and lie to our faces (and spit in the faces of every single suffering person on this earth who is subject to the misery factor extolled upon them by the Bush Regime).

[tjdee]

141. Howard Dean drives an SUV.

So is he part of the problem too?

I think it's a good idea to look at other vehicles before an SUV, but eh. As others in this thread have said, it's useless to get mad about it when people use up lots of oil without them--and some SUVs aren't as gas guzzling as others.

[Cocoa]

143. that's because he's a coward

John Kerry is a war hero, he wouldn't be afraid to drive a U-Haul.

/joke. I like Dean.

[tjdee]

144. :)

[Yentatelaventa]

195. And you're not part of "the problem"?

Unless you have zero impact it's impossible to critisize with honor.

[goobergunch]

34. Miles per gallon information from the Honda website

5-Speed Manual (City/Highway)     21 / 26   TBD   21 / 26   TBD 
4-Speed Automatic (City/Highway)  22 / 26  21/24  22 / 26  21/24 

That's decent...I don't have a problem with SUVs as long as they get decent mileage per gallon...that's about the same as my mom's car.

[GOPisEvil]

46. OK...that's not a problem.

I don't feel that is a wasteful vehicle. With automatic transmission mileage is 21-24. If you have the need for an SUV, there are far worse choices.

[jiacinto]

49. I picked Hondas

because they came highly recommended.

[EOTE]

62. Look, there are quantative differences between SUVs...

It's really foolish to lump all SUVs in the same category. Your Element is like a tall wagon version of the Civic and I'm guessing only weighs about 3500lbs. It's a car, just like the PT Cruiser is a car. It does not have ladder body construction or 4 wheel drive. It's based upon an FWD car, only the EPA doesn't consider it to be a car so the car company can reduce it's CAFE compliance (although Honda really has nothing to worry about in that respect). This is why car companies love crossover vehicles like the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe. They are light weight, yet still considered to be light trucks. So when fuel combined average fuel economy is calculated, companies that make these cars do much better.

Yes, blanket statements condemning SUVs are dumb. What should be condemned is reckless excess. The great majority of people buying medium and full size SUVs not only don't take advantage of the capabilities of their vehicle, but of the storage space too. That makes them horrific wastes of money and does wonders to drive up fuel costs.

[jiacinto]

65. Actually

It is 4 wheel Drive.

[TheBigGuy]

67. My sis & bro in law have a Honda SUV

its really nice! I actually like SUVs as they are roomy inside.

[tom_paine]

73. Let me know what your actual mileage is

Most MPGs are greatly overrated these days, and this will get worse as the Busheviks further dismantle regulations.

My car, a Hyundai, was advertised as having 22/31. My actual mileage with considerably more highway driving than city, is closer to 25.

I'm guessing the same is true for yours.

[jiacinto]

84. It's stated in a reply in this stread

nt

[DelDem]

They look like a

shoe box. I have a friend who bought one and when I told her that, she laughed and said that her husband said the very same thing. But that's okay -- I have a Toyota ECHO and I've been told that it looks like a shoe. :)

[wellstone_democrat]

18. I'm on morphine and even *I* know...

that it has been quite a while since we've had a good old SUV flame-fest roaring through DU about SUVs! What, did ya buy it today? Is that what brought this snit on bunky?

Enjoy your SUV. Good for you.

[zekeson]

128. Are you on morphine because

you live in Minnesota and have to suffer under Pawlenty and Coleman?
I do to, where's my morphine?

Just kidding - I hope all is well. :)

[Clete]

22. Well, we finally downsized from our

Ford F250 truck with a V8 engine, a real gas hog. Unfortunately we did need it to haul our *house* around. I figured what we saved in household utilities made up for the difference in fuel costs. Since we don't pull a trailer anymore, we didn't need it, which brings me to the question.

Did you look into renting a U-Haul to move? It's not as expensive as a moving company.

[NNN0LHI]

27. Get a grip Juan. I own 2 of them and have said so many times on this board

Get down off that cross and enjoy your new SUV. Speaking of which, why ain't you out driving that new baby around like I would be doing right now?

Don

[ulysses]

31. read: "I dare you to flame me."

An Element isn't as bad as it could be - I think they're ugly as sin, but that's aesthetics, not politics.

Enjoy the wheels, Carlos. May they make you proud.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

33. me too. although its relatively small

gets about 22-24mpg on highway

but only 18-19mpg city

ALSO....anyone who has a lot of kids, say 4 or more,
or anyone who lives in rural areas needing a SUV,
especially if 4x4is needed...thats fine with me.

ITS the idiots in big cities, usually its a woman
driving alone in some BIG ass SUV, men too but not
as much where I live.

In snow belt SUVs are fine too


BUT noone NEEDS a big SUV to go to the grocery store.

AND idiots like Arnold who drive a Hummer are brain-dead
penis heads. What the congress should do is charge
a YEARLY gas guzzler tax on BIG SUVsand Hummers.

A $2,000 a year tax would be fine with me.
And a another tax guzzler tax on purchase of say...$4500.

take that money and fund subsidies for Hybrid vehicles.

[jiacinto]

38. I would NEVER buy a hummer

They consume gas like it's water.

[DagmarK]

56. But, nooooo, the govt will PAY FOR YOUR HUMMER!!

You did catch that tax "reform" deal, right?

ANY business can purchase a hummer.....and deduct up to $75,000 from their federal taxes. That pays for the hummer!!!!!!!

[paulk]

39. my main objections to SUV's

is that (as someone else upthread posted) they're not subject to the same emmisions standards as other vehicles. Also, because of their size, they're dangerous to smaller vehicles sharing the road with them. They're also dangerous to themselves, which doesn't bother me much, except when one of this behemoths is out of control and bearing down on me, which happens quite frequently when it snows, because SUV drivers think they can go 20 mph faster than everyone else.

[drdigi420]

41. Why SUVs are harmful:

1. They cause traffic. Because of their inferior handling, they must be driven more slowly, almost stopped to turn 90 degrees.

2. They pollute. They are classified as light trucks (some as heavy trucks) and do not have to meet the same emissions and fuel economy standards as a sports car.

3. They are dangerous. Their limited visibility and inferior handling makes them more likely to be involved in an accident and their size makes them cause more damage.

I don't believe any law should be passed to force people not to buy SUVs, but I believe public scorn and shame is a perfect way to minimize the number of, and therefore damage caused by, those who would actually pay for one.

Why didn't you just rent a truck from U-Haul to move your stuff? You could have gotten a nice car instead of a truck.

[jiacinto]

43. I've heard that UHauls are unsafe

And this is a very long distance move. I am taking the Auto Train to complete the move.

[goobergunch]

47. Where to?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I remember when I moved from the San Francisco area to Pennsylvania...the moving company guy stopped at his home in Idaho for a week and we ended up sleeping on the floor in our house for the same period of time. :-(

Anyway, good luck!

[jiacinto]

51. Florida

nt

[playahata1]

215. What part of Florida?

I am in Jacksonville, northeastern part of the state, Freeper capital of the known universe.

[DagmarK]

48. U-Hauls ARE unsafe......they don't take care of their fleet.......

but PENSKE has practically new trucks and are very safe........

Ya wanted an SUV. FINE. But stop saying you RESEARCHED all this stuff. They are rationalizations NOT justifications. It's making you look bad, Carlos!

[BullDozer]

186. Right on

U-Hauls ARE unsafe......they don't take care of their fleet.......
but PENSKE has practically new trucks and are very safe........

That's pretty on target. Uhauls are best used only for local moves (around town)Penske/Ryder are for long distance moves.

I understand that Penske/Ryder sell their trucks after two years of usage.

[Cocoa]

59. so rent a safe truck

or rent an SUV.

[dweller]

70. You've heard U-hauls are unsafe?

but not a word about the safety issues of an SUV?

selective listening perhaps?

dp

[jiacinto]

77. This is what it looks like and MPG appears here

21 city/24 highway is the MPG.

[Brian Sweat]

126. Uhauls are unsafe, but there are companies that are safer and cheaper

Also, the rental would be a one time deal. It's not like you would be pulling it behind you for five years.

[drdigi420]

139. SUVs are also unsafe

So you chose to be unsafe for 3 years instead of unsafe for the time it took to move.

[helleborient]

66. Much of this doesn't apply to some vehicles marketed as SUVs

Small SUVs are marketed as SUVs primarily to make them a "hot item" but they really are much more like a car.

My CRV maneuvers pretty close to as well as a car - can make the tight corners with ease.

[NashVegas]

222. I've a Slightly Different Beef About SUVs

Yeah, there's the gas & safety issues. To which I'd like to add:

When I look at the road I live on, which used to need light maintenance every 5 years or so, and see it crumbling underneath the 10x increased SUV and light-midweight (F-150, Ram, etc) traffic.

When I pull into a parking lot and need a can opener to get out of my sedan, because the only spots available are between a line of 3 or more SUVs on either side. I'm glad I'm not a business owner; I'd hate to have to deal with descreasing parking space >>> decreasing business.

When I'm driving on an interstate undergoing repairs, lane widths reduced and there's about 7 inches of space between my car and the SUV I'm eitehr passing or (more often) being passed by.

But that's just me.

[gristy]

44. the typical SUV

- gets horrible gas mileage
- pollutes more than autos
- has bumpers that don't match the height of those on my car
- has bumpers at about the same level as my heart

When a Hummer drives past me, I always try to get my window down in time to flick its driver the bird.

Need to let him/her them know that some of us are paying attention...

[VermontDem2004]

54. Keep this in mind

Purchasing oil does support Terrorist Organizations. Here are oil companies that import from many middle eastern countries including Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

Shell 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon/Mobil 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon 117,740,000 barrels
BP/Amoco 62,231,000 barrels

Here are large companies that do not
Citgo 0 barrels
Sunoco 0
Conoco 0
Sinclair 0
Phillips 0

Keep this list in mind when your out driving.

[bicentennial_baby]

61. Sunoco customer here!

Always, if I can! :bounce:

[Medium Baby Jesus]

101. Internet Garbage

Sorry to disabuse you, but that stuff about the oil companies is pure BS.

Check out http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/nogas.htm

;-)

[VermontDem2004]

111. Well thank you

But do you think it is important to limit gas usage?

[SyracuseDemocrat]

226. That's totally falsified information

Urban legend?????

[Julien Sorel]

50. I drive a full size pickup,

and I have a long commute to work. I get about 16 mpg. Tough noogies. I need it for the leg room; one of these midget cars won't work for me, and I can afford the gas bill. I also do a lot of pro-environment things -- donate money, recycle, all that stuff. It isn't cut and dried, and the people who make snap judgments based on the kind of car others drive are being foolish.

[gristy]

64. How tall are you?

And you drive an SUV because you can afford it! What a great reason! How big of you!

[Julien Sorel]

79. Tall.

I also have a series of herniated discs in my back, which makes getting into and out of low cars extremely painful. With my truck, my butt slides right onto and off the seat, almost completely pain - free. Save the self-righteous BS for someone who cares; like I said, there's more to people than the car they drive.

[Old and In the Way]

87. I own two

93 Cherokee and 2001 Chevy Blazer...both 6's.

Maybe we should have a political correct list of cars/trucks permissable by the DU?

I agree that buying Hummers, Expeditions and Suburbans are a bit much, but gee, if you want to waste your money on transportation and gas, what's the big deal?

Of course, I think we should pay the full and true cost of gas at the pump...then people might think twice about the efficiency of the vehicle that they buy. If we dialed in, say, 75% of the Pentagon budget and the cost of the Iraq war, maybe we'd see a whole lot different attitude about the cost of gas.

[nannah]

118. full and true cost of gas at the pump

IMHO !!!!You are so right on when you said

" I think we should pay the full and true cost of gas at the pump...then people might think twice about the efficiency of the vehicle that they buy. If we dialed in, say, 75% of the Pentagon budget and the cost of the Iraq war, maybe we'd see a whole lot different attitude about the cost of gas."

I have floated this idea as a trial balloon several times on DU and no one responded. You could show in a line item budget the cost of defending private sector oil pipelines with US military forces all over the world. This is a cost of doing business that is underwritten by the taxpayer. Instead, this cost should be passed on to the consumer in the cost of fuel; companies using the military's services should reimburse the national treasury to free up money to tackle problems in health care, decreasing employment, education, and deteriorating national infrastructure.

When the illusion of "cheap" oil is dispelled, watch how quickly transportation and energy R&D dollars will find alternatives to dependence on finite fossil fuels that must be defended militarily.

[Old and In the Way]

153. Can you imagine how this would impact our lifestyle?

Suddenly public transportation would look pretty good. Solar/wind energy might finally be given serious consideration because heating oil would be significantly more expensive.

I am surprised that so-called "small government" Republicans haven't demanded that tax payer's be reimbursed by the oil companies for these hugh subsidies....but, of course, that would be a real problem for the Bush/Cheneys who are the ultimate big government corporate welfare pigs.

[Brian Sweat]

52. What kind of mileage does it get?

How much does it weigh? Will you have any legitimate use for an SUV after you are done moving?


I don't have a problem with people who own SUV's as long as they have a good reason to own one and the one they own is not overkill for their needs.

SUV's and Tractor Trailers are a pain in the ass on the nations roads, but we need tractor trailers. They deliver all of our shit and we would be in serious trouble. We have to put up with their mammoth size and the fact that they make it impossible to see where we are going. SUV's are the same. If there is a huge SUV in front of you or beside you, it completely blocks your view. Sometime you cannot see if there is any traffic coming, so you stick your nose out in traffic so you can see around the behemoth, but the dumb ass SUV driver does the same thing, so eventually you just have to go and hope nothing is coming. Some people need SUVs for legitimate reason. Other people are just selfish sheeple.

[DagmarK]

69. AND, a person *could* rent an SUV for a move.......

and then buy an economy car for their new life.

There are sooooo many options available.

Carlos wanted an SUV. Well, it isn't illegal.....so he should get whatever he wants. But feeding us rationalizations as justifications with a slice of indignancy thrown in for good measure is downright insulting.

[nannah]

55. SUV drivers kill more people: other people,

their own children and themselves according to recently published federal studies. SUV's are involved in many accidents in which the occupants of the other vehicle are killed. Owners of SUVs are themselves killed in roll over accidents due to the way SUVs are balanced. Children of SUV owners are more often backed over in driveways due to the size and visual obstruction of an SUV.

[slackmaster]

150. Think of your little car as my "crumple zone"

The best way to avoid being injured or killed is not to get into accidents.

[Spentastic]

203. Yeah

That's easy with idiot suv drivers who can't see you and don't care.

[helleborient]

60. Honda complicates the SUV issue

Because they and Toyota build small SUV on car bodies.

The Honda CRV is built on a Civic body so gets closer to Civic gas mileage. As I've read in professional analyses, it really isn't kin to larger American made SUVs..it basically is a tall car.

Mine is a 2 Honda family...the SUV is used to haul garden items around...that extra height is excellent for perennials and such that would not fit comfortably in a wagon...and it is the commuting mobile for my wife on a 5-minute commute.

I take the Honda Civic Hybrid (averaging about 48 mpg) on my 45-minute mostly Interstate commute. Makes me feel great every time I drive it! But I wouldn't wanna haul plants in it.

[tom_paine]

63. Perhaps not greedy or evil, Carlos, but maybe shortsighted...DO THE MATH!

Over the next 10 years, assuming you you own the SUV that long, do you think perhaps the sum total of gas purchased would be equal to or greater than the difference of $2,000.

Let's try the math:

Assuming 150,000 miles at let's say 18 MPG (generous if you're driving in the city) versus 25 MPG (which is certainly a lowball estimate for most normal cars these days -- I am coutning total MPG, some unspecified combination of city/highway)

150,000 gals. / 18 MPG = 8333.33 gallons
150,000 gals. / 25 MPG = 6000.00 gallons

8333.33 gals. - 6000 gallons = 2333.33 gallons

2333.33 gals. x $1.50/gal. (though it seems quite likely that price will rise during the next ten years) = $3500.00

Consider my estimate for your vehicle is overgenerous and I lowballed the estimate for most normal cars. The number is probably worse.

And of course that doesn't count the extra pollution spewed, the traffic caused and God Forbid your mind should wander and you should execute a mother and her kids because your attention wandered and you rolled through a stop sign at 40 MPH (but even less has been known to be fatal to drivers of small cars broadsided by SUVs).

Perhaps you should have done the math.

[enki23]

68. missed the point

it's a fact that many people, perhaps even yourself, have sufficient reason to drive inefficient vehicles without feeling guilty about it. this takes nothing away from the fact that most of them don't.

[jiacinto]

72. I don't feel guilty abou tit

I need the space. Unless those who hate SUVs can provide me with a compact car that can handle a lot of things I shouldn't be attacked.

[ulysses]

83. for the sake of argument

if you need the space, why not get a minivan? And how much shit are you toting around, anyway? I moved from New Mexico to Oklahoma to Georgia, with a 55-lb dog, in a very well-packed Ford Probe when I was 22.

[jiacinto]

86. mostly boxes and a table

roughly about what you would have in a college dorm room.

[ulysses]

94. what couldn't you ship?

How many times do you plan to move during the time you own the Honda?

[bloom]

103. why would a minivan be better?

I don't think they get better mileage (than an Element).

[ulysses]

112. more room

since that's the stated reason for buying the Element.

[Cocoa]

91. get a Civic

it's an excellent, efficient car, if you even need a car. If you don't need a car, don't get one.

For moving or hauling things, borrow or rent a larger vehicle.

[Classical_Liberal]

114. Uhaul rentals are MUCH less expensive than an SUV

Saying you are using it to move is not very convincing. I live in a college town and the Ryder rate is 19.95 a day. Sorry, I think your rationalizing. You are a single young man, no kids, and you bought an expesive oversized gas guzzling vehical to move? I don't buy it.

[jiacinto]

115. I need the car for other reasons too

And Uhauls aren't safe.

[Classical_Liberal]

122. Why don't you tell us about the other reasons

nobody brought up the suv but you. An overloaded Suv with furnishings obstructing your view aren't safe either.

[theboss]

75. I want a Land Rover

People should be able to buy whatever they want. I drove a Ford Escort in law school and decided I would never drive a car I hated again.

[jiacinto]

80. I could never afford a Land Rover

nt

[helleborient]

78. The assumption that all SUVs are the same

To me seems about as uneducated as all of the people who tell my 6'4" friend they are amazed he drives a VW New Beetle. Look at a Beetle from the outside and you noticed it is taller than most cars. They are a great car for headroom! People seem to just make generalizations because it is classed as a compact car.

Some SUVs are solid, reasonably efficient vehicles. Get beyond the generalizations and attack the SUVs by actual manufacturer and model!

[Sirius_on]

89. News FLASH!!!

New SUVs pollute about 1% of a old car. Want to save the planet, buy a NEW SUV!!



Old cars suck!!

Debate over...I won. Case closed...Lets move on.

Lets review...



Pollutes.



Does NOT pollute.

[El Mariachi]

99. all i gotta say

the honda element beats out the pontiac aztek in the ugliest vehicle contest.

[Brian Sweat]

123. False Dilema

Your arguement assumes that the only choice is between an old micro van and a new SUV. I bet a new microvan produce less emissions than a ford pos suv.

[Sirius_on]

175. My point is that older cars are the main problem with air pollution

I work in a business that has me on the road very often. I just sit back and watch traffic half the time. The observation that I have made is that if I can see your exhaust on a 75 degree day, your car needs to be scrapped PERIOD. I never notice this to be a problem on newer cars, but old Hondas, Fords, Toyotas and anything else that might have been econo friendly at one time eventually gets to be one.

Want to help out air quality, buy a new car. Whether it be a SUV or a hybrid, either way you help save the planet.

[Brian Sweat]

211. Yes, older vehicle produce most of the pollution emitted by cars.

But that doesn't change the fact that you are not limited to a choice between a new SUV and a seventies era rust bucket.

[bpilgrim]

92. i thought you were a poor college kid?

interesting... how many soilders per mile does yours get?

if you lived in a cold climate or the sticks i can understand, though.
still don't forgive the manufactures though.

peace

[aquaman]

96. I am all for personal choice

However, I have made the choice to not drive one of these oversized vehicles. True, some people need them for their jobs and that is fine. Others, I believe come up with various rationalizations to support their decision to buy an SUV. Yet at the same time many will swear that they are "pro" environment. The fact is that automakers have no initiative to produce vehicles that will get better gas mileage because people are buying these monsters and usually don't give a damn regarding the cumalitive impact that all of these SUV's are having on the environment. So, drive your SUV, just don't, which you have not, proclaim yourself to be an environmentalist. Peace.

[ohmyman1]

97. size matters

big vehicle, small penis?

[aquaman]

100. Ha Ha......

Hmmm, could it be true?

[Sirius_on]

104. Thoughtless comment

Trying to compare large car owners to genitals is real intelligent. I own a SUV because I need the size. 6' 6'' 220+ guys need big vehicles. Most 6' 6'' guys are probably well endowed if you know what I mean.

[Brian Sweat]

119. Horseshit

I have a toyota MR2 Spyder. I'm only 5'4" but there are members of our club that are your height and weight over 300 lbs. If people that size can fit in a car as tiny as a Spyder, there is no way you NEED an SUV because of your size.

[Sirius_on]

178. And you expect me to spend $26k on a small car?

The day I spend $26,000 on a small car is the day I go :crazy:.

Second of all, I live in Michigan and quite close to Detroit. I dont drive foriegn made cars.

[Brian Sweat]

212. Another False Dilemma and a bit of a straw man

You claimed you needed an SUV because of your size. I offered the Spyder as an option, not because I thought you should buy one, but because it is an example of an extremely small car, yet people bigger than you drive them and find them quite comfortable.

There are other cars out there that will easily accommodate someone your size. There are even cars made in America.

[ithacan]

102. for some reason I'm not at all surprised

fits right in with everything else.

[jiacinto]

109. What makes you so morally superior to me

I just don't understand where you get off with your arrogant attitude.

[Ein]

177. hear, hear! n/t

[Classical_Liberal]

106. Ever heard of UHaul?

?

[goobergunch]

108. See earlier in the thread (n/t)

[Bake]

110. You're going straight to hell, Jiacinto. Do not pass go.

Do not collect $200.

Just kidding, man. As long as it's not a Hummer or one of those monster Fords (Excursion? Excalibur? Exlaxative?), you're still OK in my book.

Bake

[otohara]

117. Whew, I'm Not The Only One

I wanted to return it, two days after I bought it - it sucks gas like crazy - but i had a horrible accident in my little RAV4 (I miss it to this day) Thought bigger would be better - ha, ha, ha

Now my son is older, getting his own car, I rarely drive it.

[Droopy]

120. Geez, what kind of compact car were you looking at?

A mercedes? I'm not going to criticize you for driving an SUV, but I think you are inconsistent to say that an SUV only costs a couple of thousand more. I drive a truck for a living and I haul the parts that go into making Chevy Envoys and Blazers. Those vehicles cost $35,000 new. My mom tells me that a friend of her's bought a new Mustang for $26,000. That's no an economy car. My guess is that you could get a new economy car for around $20,000. My sister just bought a two year old Intrepid for $12,000. Shop around a little next time, man. Unless you just really wanted that SUV. ;-)

[jiacinto]

121. The Honda Civic

I bought the Element instead.

[Bake]

165. Aw heck, that hardly counts

Probably gets 25 or 30 mpg. Aside from being sorta ugly (at least it's not one of those wicked ugly Pontiac Aztecs!), you coulda done worse.

:-)

Bake

[snooper2]

124. Are you that bored or conflicted...

(edit fix link)
That you have to start a stupid SUV thread? You know the same things that are said again and again will be said here. Do you have issues with owning the SUV and need to be re-assured it's okay?

The excuse is pretty poor by the way. I did a search at U-haul and, put that I was moving from New York City to Los Angeles pulling it with my Saturn, one way, and it's only $393.00.
Here ya go..
http://reservations.uhaul.com/(1jvog1fa1csqbj55ede1kmyy)/quote.aspx?referenceNumber=22705580

I guess you will make up the extra money you spent on the "SUV" over the months and years with the better gas mileage.

Here is an article you can read for guilty SUV owners. It may help.
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.13.01/cover/suvs-0150.html

[jiacinto]

125. Actually

UHauls aren't that safe to drive.

[snooper2]

129. It was a trailer I posted...

And last time I checked, trailers are pretty easy and safe way to haul things around. A hitch can be installed for $100 bucks. I read the rest of the posts on this thread and now see you got a Honda Element. Besides being dreadfully hideous in my mind, it doesn't get that bad of mileage.

My Saturn runs like shit right now and I'm only getting about 22-24(I only drive in town).

Of course my motorcycle gets about 37, even though I have a habbit of having the throttle wide open as long as some SUV isn't around. :)

[Cocoa]

take a chance, jiacinto

I've rented U-hauls, the extreme danger is actually quite a rush.

[Iris]

132. I've heard the same about rolling over in your own vehicle.

[Cocoa]

130. take a chance, jiacinto

I've rented U-hauls, the extreme danger is actually quite a rush.

[bloom]

131. We rented a U-Haul recently

and actually - my husband had problems with it. He would be turning and it would shut off leaving him without much ability to steer.

Not that we wouldn't rent one again if we thought we needed to - I just figured I would throw that out there for your benefit. :)

[Generic Other]

127. As long as there are no road rage incidents

You know how mad you get at some of us. I don't want to look in my rear view and see you ranting about how slow I am going.

Also, drive carefully with that thing. No sharp corners or you'll tip it over like an inattentive cow (the car, not you)!

[Fescue4u]

233. As long you are not in the fast lane

Why would slowness be a concern?

Now if you are in the fast doing 55.....well nevermind :)

[PurityOfEssence]

134. Can you be any more aggressively thin-skinned if you tried?

You sling plenty of mud and yet are shockingly defensive.

By what conceit do you demand exemption from rebuke over your actions? You certainly grant no quarter in return.

[tom_paine]

135. I guess I agree completely with that assement, PoE

Completely. :thumbsup:

Looks like you just made Carlos' "ignore list".

LOL

[Wonk]

140. Are you planning to modify it into your vision of a "religious car"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=91832&mesg_id=91832

[SweetZombieJesus]

146. I reduced my hatred of SUV owners to hatred of Humvee owners

I'll let Explorers and Expeditions slide, but NOBODY NEEDS A FUCKING HUMVEE. NO ONE. You are not Rambo, and if you have to overcompensate for your small penis, just buy a fucking Ferrari and save the rest of us the spectre of your tank like vehicle tailgating us. Why don't you just ride a golden rhinoceros to work, you fucking moron!

[Ein]

179. Ferrari

aren't they 12-cylinder? Isn't that at least as bad as a humvee. Humvees are.... 8 liter, if I recall, I believe Ferraris are larger.

[Spentastic]

205. How much does a modena weigh?

How many idiots drive their Modenas to work?

[JanMichael]

145. A Honda Element?! Cut the self rightious "victim of persecution" act!

These: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/96312/page013.html

Are the problems silly boy.

Not mini-"SUV's" that get over 25 mpg on the highway:eyes:

[bloom]

147. I think it's the anti-SUV fanatics that should qualify -"Large Luxury SUV"

ie: "You'd never catch me..."

[JanMichael]

151. Carlos was guilty of neglecting to qualify his rant.

"I think it's the anti-SUV fanatics that should qualify -"Large Luxury SUV""

Silly me, I though it was pretty well obvious.

Unless one is intentionally obtuse;-)

[killbotfactory]

148. Why don't you club a baby seal for good measure...

Just kidding.

[WillyT]

152. "Hi, I'm WillyT, And I'm A Recovering Liberal Democrat !"

I used to listen to Black Sabbath backwards at 78 rpm all fucked up on acid, but now, I'm all fucked up on God!!!

And one time.... In Band Camp...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They're coming to take me away ha, ha.............

Jesus...

:wtf:

[fortyfeetunder]

155. IT depends on the needs

I am downselecting between CRV and RAV4. I only looked at the small SUV range because I need the cargo room, want to move bikes, hiking equipment and hobby stuff. I also live on top of a hill and I want to be able to get home after some amount of snow. Also gas mileage was a consideration. I have an AWD car now and wanted something different.

I posted something earlier on looking for wagons, etc that I could fit my tall spouse in for occasional driving and these two models seem to work the best for us, and within my price range.

[jiacinto]

156. I got it for the room

nt

[Skip Intro]

157. So how many dead Iraqis per gallon does your new SUV get? n/t

[wuushew]

159. New Study: SUVs Riskier to Children Than Minivans, Large and Mid-Sized Car

Stronger CAFE Standards Will Improve Conservation and Safety

-snip-

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Sport utility vehicles are the second most popular choice of vehicle for transporting children – behind minivans – but they are twice as deadly for children as minivans and more dangerous to children than large or mid-sized passenger cars, according to a new Public Citizen study released today during a news conference at the Capitol.


-snip-

SUV owners collectively paid almost $9 billion – $350 each – more for gasoline in 2002 in the United States than they would if SUVs were as fuel-efficient as the average car. This translates into 151 million extra barrels of oil consumed in the United States in 2002 to fuel SUVs.

-snip-

The fuel efficiency of engines increases by an average of 1.9 percent per year, but automakers chose to use these efficiency gains to increase acceleration and add weight to vehicles (mostly in SUVs) instead of increasing fuel economy.


Had Congress in 1990 enacted legislation authored by Sen. Richard Bryan to increase fuel economy, passenger cars would now be getting, on average, 40 miles per gallon (mpg), and light trucks would get 29 mpg. This would have saved motorists $89 billion and reduced U.S. oil consumption by 1.5 billion barrels in 2002 alone.


https://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=1454

[Iris]

161. just last week in my town

a teenager was killed when she was thrown from her family's SUV in a rollover. They were going on vacation. Really sad.

[MuseRider]

162. I HATE these threads

and I try to stay out of them. I drive a big ass truck, 2500, 24 valve turbo diesel engine. 17 MPG. Do I like it? Not really. Would I choose to drive it? No. Do I have to have this kind of vehicle, yes I do. This is the one thing I never see mentioned on these threads. I hate SUVs, I think we should not be driving them to go pick up the kids or go to the store but some of us need them to do what we do. People who live in areas with lots of snow and ice shouldn't have to suffer attacks because they would rather not be stuck in a 10 foot snow bank or slide off a mountain pass. I used to have small cars and some of them were quite good in these circumstances but given a choice in the mountains with my children in the car I would drive an SUV. I just had to say this. I am envious of those with the small electric or hybrid cars but I do need this truck and unless people don't want to eat they should think about that before going off on everyone who drives a big ass truck.

[NNN0LHI]

164. Snow? Do I get snow? Lake effect from Lake Michigan is all too common...

...here where I live. The nearest city larger then the one I am (Pop.1000) in is a 40 mile round trip from here. I prefer small cars too. They just don't work here in the winter too good. The police here have borrowed my Explorer in the past during snow storms to get stranded people in cars that were stuck in a ditch out on Rt.1 and bring them back to town here for their safety. I don't mind. Told them to come get it whenever they need it.

Don

[MuseRider]

166. Like I said

some people need them and they should not have to feel bad about it. Do you wish you got better gas mileage? I sure do but I drive what I have to, you do too. I do wish I didn't have to park this sucker in those little spaces though but I'll bet others would rather I not either!

[NNN0LHI]

167. They SHOULD get better gas mileage. And I wish they did too

I also wish that gas was 5 dollars a gallon. About the same as what the rest of the world is already paying. That would discourage the people from buying them that didn't really need them.

Don

[jiacinto]

168. I don't wish gas was five dollars a gallon

Maybe, if we had a country with a public transit system like Europe's, where trains and planes went everywhere, that could work. But not in America.

[NNN0LHI]

176. You are already paying that much.

How many of our tax dollars are being spent by our military establishment protecting privately owned oil companies pipelines and oil fields throughout the world? Or how much in foreign aid is sent to oil rich coutries we buy oil from that we would not need to send aid to if we paid a fair price at the pump? Yes you are paying 5 bucks a gallon or more per gallon already. You just don't notice it. But whether you notice it or not your tax dollars are being spent every day to keep prices at the pump artificially low. And who gets rich Juan? A few oil execs. Thats who.

Don

[joshcryer]

200. Thing is, they *can* get better gas mileage (low cost).

With higher performance, too! The Union of Concerned Scientists proved it.

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/cars_and_suvs/page.cfm?pageID=227

Personally, if I needed a SUV, I would probably go out of my way to modify it to have better gas mileage. Just beacuse it would be cheaper in the long run.

Also, I disagree with the $5 gas. That's just stupid, and I don't see anyone who needs transportation actually wanting that.

[John_H]

170. Why do both political fringes atrract control freaks?

Ever notice how the most virulent SUV diatribe writers--whom in this thread have variously accused SUV drivers of abetting terrorists, murdering people, violating the earth--are the same folks who have posted in favor of income capping, who and support a party whose platform mentions the words "control" "ban" "close down" "limit" and "end" numerous times? The first to claim the moral high ground for their beliefs.

Jesus. You people are about a half an inch from being Ralph Reed. You just want to ban, end, close down and limit different stuff than he does. It's a contol complex, pure and simple. You want to tell people what they can drive. You want to tell people how much they can make. You want tomake everybody share your priorities.

You are the opposite of liberals. Why don't y'all just join the police force and get it over with?

[incontrovertible]

163. I'm gettin' THIS one!

There, now I can be the comparatively evil one, and you can enjoy your Element.

[Fescue4u]

169. You don't need to justify your decision...

Thats the beauty of being an American..

You don't -need- a reason.

[Cocoa]

171. and it's backed up by our military

thanks to our ability to smash other countries, we get to consume 40% of the world's oil.

We get our SUV's for a one-time move to Florida, and the rest of the world gets to risk their lives in a U-haul.

Damn, I'm an American!

[Fescue4u]

172. I suppose thats always been true..

Pretty much the military has protected America since inception.

Not much different than the rest of the world huh?

[Cocoa]

185. it's very different than the rest of the world

Only the U.S. consumes such a grossly unjust share of oil.

They're going to have heating fuel shortages in Iraq this winter, while Americans will be whining about the price of gas going over $2 a gallon.

Just one of those injustices that is hard to even think about. Definitely more important and concrete an injustice than whether some American is criticized for wasting a scarce resource. And yes, Jiacinto did say "unjust and unfair."

[Ein]

174. I thought it was only 25%

5% population, 25% worlds oil

[Ein]

173. What about after the move?

A car is a long term investment. Are you going to need to capacity on an at least twice weekly basis. B/c the price diff. is going to come back around in oil costs and environmental costs.

Minivans are a good alternative as well.

[jiacinto]

183. Yes

I will be driving a lot of people around.

[Ein]

184. Are all these people moving with you?

You know, Minivans top most SUV's in terms of passenger space.

[RetroLounge]

180. I drive a GMC Suburban with a 350 V-8

So f*cking what? You don't like it, then stay the f*ck out of my way.

I have no need to justify my life to anyone, especially you so-called liberals who think you're not progressive enough unless you drive a hybrid that runs on patchoulli. Bunch of PC control freaks want to tell everyone what they can and cannot do. Bite me and my truck.

Maybe I should put a gun rack in it just to piss you off too.

You wanna come over and make sure my house in energy efficient too?

Sheesh, no wonder we're losing our asses to a bunch of right wing idiots.

Carlos: Congrats on the new purchase, drive safe, and good luck with your move.

[Ein]

182. People see things differently

I would say the air we all breathe and the ozone layer protecting all our lives is everyones business, and leave it at that.

[redeye]

187. Actually...

...you said in the Lounge that your SUV was an Element. I checked www.fueleconomy.gov and found out that that SUV does something like 22 mpg, not exactly Honda Insight (55) but not Ford Explorer (13) either.

And no, you're not evil or greedy. Evil (and just plain stupid because it costs more) is buying an SUV when 95% of your driving is in the city, not buying an SUV because you need one.

[DrRock]

188. SUVs

My problem with SUVs is that about 90% of the time when I see one, there is only ONE person in it; the driver. Now I realize that the driver may be on his or her way to pick up a large group of people, or a large amount of cargo, but let's be realistic here, if that were the case then why don't I see multiple people in these things more than 10% of then time? Mainly, I see them as somewhat of a status symbol. The real problem I have is the proposed tax write-offs for people who buy them, particularly here in Arizona where I live, where we had the whole "Alternative fuel" debacle. People received HUGE rebates for purchasing a vehicle with an alternative fuel option, then were not required to actually use an alternative fuel. So these folks bought these monstrosities, got the rebate, and continued to guzzle gas anyway. Case in point; the owner of the company where I used to work did exactly this. He never used alternative fuel, got the rebate anyway, and was a millionaire anyway, so he really didn't need the rebate in the first place. Someone in the thread stated earlier that the real problem is that they're not required to meet the same fuel efficiency and safety standards as passenger cars, so the honus is taken off the manufacturers to do so. Once again, the big corporations benefit, and the environment (not to mention the safety of others on the road) suffer. One last thing, did I mention that the one person I usually see in those things is drinking coffee, talking on the phone, using their laptops, pdas, and whatever other crap-ola they have in their cars to distract them from actually paying attention to what they're doing. The idea, you see is that if they put themselves in the hugest vehicle they can find, then it doesn't matter how horrible they drive, because they're safe, screw everybody else. Also, I can never see around these guys, and if they're not paying attention, and they stop suddenly, I have no advance warning, and cannot stop quick enough. Ok, enough rambling. I don't like 'em. I'll make SUV drivers a deal; if you get off the phone, pay attention to what you're doing, and drive safe, I won't complain about you anymore.

[jiacinto]

191. Ok

Thanks.

[Wonk]

189. Do you really, Carlos, or does your bank? nt

[jiacinto]

196. Yeah I do own it

nt

[joshcryer]

199. You have the title, free and clear?

Wow, I'm impressed.

[jiacinto]

209. I hate debt

nt

[moondust]

190. Something doesn't add up.

They want $2000-3000 to haul the stuff you can fit into an SUV? Wow! Rent a pickup.

[Yentatelaventa]

194. Me too and it gets worse...

Three snowmobiles, four motorcycles, five chainsaws, a lawnboy, charcoal grill, oil heat, a tractor, backhoe, wood stove, coal stove and more.

What do I win?

[dudeness]

197. just out of curiosity

how much is gasoline on average in the US..here (australia) I pay around $5 a gallon

[jiacinto]

198. $1.50-$1.67 per gallon

nt

[Tom Kitten]

202. Great news, Guy!

I'm so happy for you...Just try not to run anybody off the road, ok? Just because you drive a tank doesn't give you the right to cut off other driver's rights and then act like you've been offended when sometimes people get offended, kapish, mon frere?

[Spentastic]

204. Well

"I see people attacking those who own SUVs all the time here as being greedy and selfish. First of all I am saying this because I think that the attacks on SUV owners are unfair and unjust."

Well isn't that precious. I remember a time where you thought that Saddam Hussein was such a bad man we should send troops in to "liberate" the Iraqi people.

Wrong then, wrong now.

If you want to buy an SUV fair play. Just don't rationalise it by saying the people who criticise the decision are wrong. Personally I drive a Subaru WRX 2.0 Turbo and I love it. It gets about 35mpg out of town and my pennance is I use public transport to get to work and drive less than 2000 miles a year.

[Kolesar]

207. He did not say that

He said that the war was a losing issue for Democrats. That is not the same as saying what you said about Saddam. I remember it well.

[Spentastic]

214. Sorry

I don't agree at all. I think Carlos rightly backed off a war was right position.

[Kolesar]

206. You don't own an SUV, you own a station wagon with all wheel drive...

...and some ground clearance. Don't feel guilty. Your Element is rated for higher city fuel economy performance than was my 2900 pound Chevrolet Celebrity wagon at 20/29 mpg. Happy motoring!

What I resent is the way the truck-SUVs are marketed. Isuzu had a full frame truck-SUV. They used to run commercials with a mom and her son in it with a voice over that said that you should buy their truck if you care about your children's safety. That is a lie. Truck SUVs are heavy, they have bad steering response, a high center of gravity and they stop slower than a car. They are not safer!

As for winter driving, the solution is snow tires, not a complicated drive train. 4WD low range is not going to help you stop on ice.

The other thing I hate about SUV marketing is the ostentatious "king of the road" image projected by the driver of a big, tough truck. The ads look like snowmobile or jet ski ads.

[MissMillie]

210. If you need something that big...

...with that much power and All-wheel drive (or 4-wheel drive) then you should buy it.

Buying an SUV is not evil if you truly need it. My cousin lives in the boonies, has 3 kids that all participate in sports. She is forever carting kids and their equipment to football, baseball, snow-boarding, etc. Her SUV fits her needs, so she should have it.

It's a different story when a single-person buys an over-sized, gas-guzzling car and they really could have gotten along w/ a compact car. Those are the folks that are needlessly consuming the foreign oil, etc.

It makes me laugh to see the super-sized passenger trucks with a US flag in the window.

[curse10]

213. do you just wake up in the morning and say

"I think I'm going to start a thread just so I can get flamed"?

Quit trying to justify your purchase of a gas guzzling environment destroying vehicle. We are all a little sick of it.

[jiacinto]

235. I am sick of your self-righteousness

I am so sick of the arrogant attitudes people like you have toward ordinary, upstanding Americans.

[curse10]

236. Yep, mighty upstanding of you

I really appreciate those fine upstanding citizens destroying the air I breath. :eyes:

[LeftHander]

217. Done moving? Sell the gas pig....

If you are driving around alone, commuting in an SUV and are not hauling a trailer (work related stuff, construction etc...)

Then sell the goddamn thing.

[nn2004]

219. Good luck telling people what to drive

Who made you the final arbiter of vehicle choice?

[Catherine Vincent]

220. Congrats on your new purchase.

If someone wants to purchase an SUV, that is their business not mine. There are a few in my family that own SUVs. I would never buy one because I don't need one.

But it must be nice though, I can't afford a car period much less an SUV. I'm trying to hang on to my 91 Camry as long as I can. My next car will hopefully be a Avalon.

[blindpig]

224. SUV's are scapegoats

for our resource sucking society. Sure they're marginally worse on gas than most. The real problem is having a transportation system based on burning fossil fuel. And having so many people driving. And the suburban lifestyle. And so on, and on. Most of us here should feel guilty for being affluent Americans.
But we won't, cause guilt don't feel good. It's unamerican. Rather we'll throw some cash at WWF or Sierra. We'll recycle some bottles. Pallitives(sp).
Real environmental and social justice is going to require some sacrifice on the part of the affluent Americans. This is a finite planet and judging from many of the posts to this thread many so called progressives don't have a clue. Sad & scary.

[graham67]

229. We own....

a Ford F250 that gets 6 mpg on a good day (and we use it to tow a boat, a racing trailer, and ATVs so don't freak out about our conspicuous consumption :-) ). But why does no one pick on trucks?? They're just as bad as SUVs.

[Aaron]

239. Truck owners are more likely to use their trucks for purposes

like yours that actually require a truck/suv than most suv owners maybe? Just a guess -

[landoclinton]

230. Great job!

I applaud your purchace. I am glad that the stereotyping of SUV's as evil didnt influence your decision. I currently own a big car and look forward to graduationg college and investing in a Range Rover.

[MiddleRiverRefugee]

232. Carlos, I think ya done good

..with the car choice, and I hope you kick some serious butt down in FL. They're gonna need the likes of you come 2004.

We DC-area DUers should throw you a nice send-off.

[SmileyBoy]

237. It's not so much the gas mileage issue that enfuriates me about SUV's.

The car companies make their profits off of SUV's. For every normal sedan/coupe that is sold, the dealership/corporation makes an average sales profit (diff. between materials + labour cost and retail price) of about $3,000. For every SUV/pickup that is sold, there's over a $10,000 sales profit for the dealership/company. Your average SUV uses not much more materials than a sedan or coupe, and uses NO MORE labour than a sedan. You don't see many SUV's priced under 20k nowadays, and a majority of mid-class sedans and coupes are priced under that amount. The high price of the SUV is no more than gouging on the part of the car company and the dealership, plain and simple. It's cause they jack up the SUV price. So drive your SUV for as much as you want, Carlos. I'm not dissapointed that you drive an SUV in itself. I'm disappointed that you decided to purchase an item that was a rip-off, and that resulting sale performed a great benefit of the car corporation, and in the end, the greedy oil companies.

[salmonhorse]

238. Personally?

I wouldn't own one ~